Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Enertia Discussion => Brammo Enertia Plus => Topic started by: Brammofan on February 29, 2012, 02:01:16 PM
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I'm going to leave this here... just in case.
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Ha...I almost started a thread like this yesterday...
I hope this thread sees mucho action today :)
Gavin
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Hmmmm, 4 pm in Oregon...hopes for newsletter in February dimming...
Gavin
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Yeah, check your emails
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Hmmm,
Upside...lots of very nice improvements...can't wait to ride it...
Downside...quite a bit of a price bump....
Gavin
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Close up of battery module.
(http://www.brammo.com/newsletter/html/images/BPM4470_clearcase_render_1200.jpg)
Pure sexy....
Info:
In the Enertia Plus, two BPM44/70 battery modules take the place of the six smaller modules found in the standard Enertia. The chemistry in the Enertia is Lithium Iron Phosphate. The chemistry in the Enertia Plus is Lithium NCM (Nickel Cobalt Manganese Oxide), sometimes referred to as Lithium "mixed metal oxide". Both chemistries are well known for their safety and very good life cycle performance. The Lithium NCM has the benefit of greater energy density, which is how we achieve more capacity for the same weight. A higher nominal battery bus voltage (88.8Vdc) and lower series resistance means less voltage sag, higher continuous performance, and greater overall system efficiency for the Plus as well
G
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Upgraded Motor - Although the power level remains the same, the actively air-cooled permanent magnet AC motor features greater efficiency which reduces the heat generated, allowing more performance to be pulled out of the bike before it reaches its thermal limit.
New forged Triple Clamp with much improved steering lock and slightly modified geometry and ergonomics. Reduced trail, plus the increased lock makes for a dramatic improvement to low-speed maneuverability without sacrificing stability at speed. Handle bar position is roughly 1" higher and 1" back towards the rider which was unanimously judged to be more comfortable for a variety of rider sizes.
New Cast Aluminum Headlamp Brackets clean up the aesthetic of the front end and make servicing parts in that assembly much easier. The brackets also reposition the dash closer to the triple clamp and change the angle slightly. The new brackets were designed to accept accessories like the optional windscreen with a simple bolt-on kit.
Can't wait to see these improvements...all of these are areas I wanted improved...
Gavin
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That battery looks amazing! Hmmm... i didnt get an email though...
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(http://www.brammo.com/newsletter/html/images/enertia_plus_screen.jpg)
I want some closer images of the front bracket... :)
Gavin
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That battery looks amazing! Hmmm... i didnt get an email though...
Hmmm, sent as Enertia Plus Pre-order confirmation...so maybe only sent to plus customers...
Enertia Plus Pre-Order Confirmation.....The much anticipated Enertia Plus is now entering production and your pre-order has reached the point where you will need to confirm your order by following the link below. Once you have confirmed your order you will be contacted with a delivery date, and at that time you will be expected to make a non-refundable deposit of $1000. The Enertia platform has advanced a great deal since it was first introduced to the world in 2009. Leveraging what we've learned from customers along with key developments in electric vehicle technology, The Enertia Plus represents the longest range, highest performance Enertia we've offered to date
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Any release date details for the plus? Price?
If the digital guts of the Empulse look this good I may have to open it up from time to time just to look at em.
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New Enertia Plus Motor Controller which allows for greater configuration options and more robust communications with the Brammo VCU (Vehicle Control Unit).
Auto-Start Module Integration - The Enertia Plus now starts with the key switch and does not require the button press. The button has been replaced with a stylish aluminum Brammo bull head badge. The Enertia Plus also starts charging when plugged in to AC power. No special key position or steps are required.
Warranty - The Enertia Plus comes with a 12 month warranty and the Brammo Power BPM44/70 batteries with a 24 month warranty.
The MSRP of the 2012 Enertia Plus is now $10,995 – and can be financed for as little as $220 per month subject to credit approval.
Hmmm, motor control configuration...nice
Gavin
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2012 Enertia Plus Specifications
Top Speed: 60+ mph / 95+ km/h
Power: 17hp / 13 kw
Torque: 29.5 ft-lb / 40 Nm
Battery Capacity: 6.2 kWh (nominal)
Max Range: 80 miles / 128 km
(based on MIC “city” range test)
Weight: 330 lbs / 150 kg
Level 1 (US) Recharge Time: 0% to 100% - 8 hours
G
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Great stuff! ;D Thanks for sharing Gavin!
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Any release date details for the plus? Price?
If the digital guts of the Empulse look this good I may have to open it up from time to time just to look at em.
Brammo should make a clear model...like Wonder Woman's plane...
G
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Any release date details for the plus?
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/6942880423_ffbb1d1f9f_z_d.jpg)
June
Gavin
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Now the downside.
Price difference to Zero S is only 500 bucks.
For that 500 bucks the Zero has belt vs chain, 2 seats and a higher top speed. The Plus will get slightly better range.
So the Plus might not do as well in the States. Should do great in Europe and Asian though.
Maybe Brammo is focusing on the Empulse for the US market. Probably will keep a large portion of the Enertias and Pluses across the pond.
I still prefer the style of the Enertia...and the company has been great to me...but, honestly, I would pay 500 bucks more, easily, if the Plus could carry 2, had a belt and did 75 mph.
Still I plan to get a Plus and will love it...but the competition here in the states will be pretty tough. At the lower price point Brammo had Zero beat...at the current price it will be about dealerships and word of mouth and style choices.
Gavin
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Yeah the 2k price increase would be much easier to swallow if the federal rebate still existed... who knows, it may be back in time to claim it on taxes next year. For the same reason I really hope they dont plan to increase the price of the Empulse beyond 14k... its already 3500 more than I had originally planned to spend because I was looking at the 12k 8.0 originally with the fed rebate... the wife is already uneasy about the 14k I would plop down on a 10.0. Would be a no go for me (and her) without the CO tax rebate for sure.
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It looks like Brammo didn't want to upset Miss Leap Year. :P
Ok...the universe has given Brammo an extra day to get some February news out...I am hoping for a Leap Day miracle....
If not, Miss Leap Year will not be pleased
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02148/leapyear620_2148188b.jpg)
Gavin
I was just looking for a reason to use that photo
Thanks for the info, Gavin!
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The MSRP of the 2012 Enertia Plus is now $10,995 – and can be financed for as little as $220 per month subject to credit approval.
Hmmm, ok rough math time.
11000 price...minus 1000 deposit...
So let's say 10000....yes tax and such will bump that up...
But to finance 10000 and get 220 a month payments Brammo seems to expect loans to be for 48 months at 2.99 percent.
Gavin
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(http://www.brammo.com/newsletter/html/images/enertia_plus_givi_lrg.jpg)
Not on this image, but wasn't there talk at one time of a center stand?
Gavin
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Last comment...then off to bed....
Brammo needs to update the prices on their website.... :)
Gavin
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Now the downside.
Price difference to Zero S is only 500 bucks.
For that 500 bucks the Zero has belt vs chain, 2 seats and a higher top speed. The Plus will get slightly better range.
Looks like the Zero ZF6 is lighter, fair bit more power. We'll see about range - I think the battery pack on the Enertia Plus is 6.2 kwh, the ZF6 is 5.3 kwh.
I think top speed on the Enertia will be prove to be right around 70 mph.
Will be interesting to see how Brammo spins the price bump over the Enertia. I think it's fair to say we will not see a $14k Empulse 10.
I don't think the EP is overpriced, it is a big step up from the Enertia. Brammo continuing to sell the Enertia at a lower price point makes more sense now - wonder if it will get the Perm 126 too. But the EP is no longer the clear choice over the Zero it would have been at $9k.
Very encouraging to see final specs, pricing, and a shipping date that has an actual month attached to it. Let's hope they can do the same with the Empulse soon.
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Upgraded Motor - Although the power level remains the same, the actively air-cooled permanent magnet AC motor features greater efficiency which reduces the heat generated, allowing more performance to be pulled out of the bike before it reaches its thermal limit.
New forged Triple Clamp with much improved steering lock and slightly modified geometry and ergonomics. Reduced trail, plus the increased lock makes for a dramatic improvement to low-speed maneuverability without sacrificing stability at speed. Handle bar position is roughly 1" higher and 1" back towards the rider which was unanimously judged to be more comfortable for a variety of rider sizes.
New Cast Aluminum Headlamp Brackets clean up the aesthetic of the front end and make servicing parts in that assembly much easier. The brackets also reposition the dash closer to the triple clamp and change the angle slightly. The new brackets were designed to accept accessories like the optional windscreen with a simple bolt-on kit.
Can't wait to see these improvements...all of these are areas I wanted improved...
Gavin
I think the bike I rode at Miller back in September had all those improvements. One of the things I tested with the bike was seriously low speed maneuverability. It's Aces in my book. Not that that means much, mind you. Either way, I think you will be very happy.
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I think the thing you all are missing is the difference in quality between the Enertia and the Zero S. The Enertia I rode back in September has to have the most solid feeling front end I have ever felt. And the quality of all the switch gear would make some Hondas start to look a little cheap. I cannot vouch for the Zero, but I think the extra $500 is in high quality parts, build, and over all product. In other words I suspect you will get what you pay for.
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Hmmm, sent as Enertia Plus Pre-order confirmation...so maybe only sent to plus customers...
I didn't get an email either, and I'm in as Plus pre-order. Maybe it's only sent to USA pre-orders ?
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I cannot vouch for the Zero, but I think the extra $500 is in high quality parts, build, and over all product. In other words I suspect you will get what you pay for.
The extra $500 .. in the Zero?
One thing to note, Gavin, is the passenger pegs on the Zero are an extra $250. Definitely nice to have the option, but it does increase the price delta if you are comparing a one-rider Enertia vs a two-rider Zero S.
If I was looking at a bike for use on the highway much or with a passenger, I would want the bigger battery Zero. The ZF6 S has about 29 miles of 70 mph range. I suspect many people that decide on the Zero for those two features will end up up-selling themselves to the ZF9. Right now (er, in June) Brammo doesn't offer a two-up or a safe freeway bike.
But let's check back in a month..
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I didn't get an email either, and I'm in as Plus pre-order. Maybe it's only sent to USA pre-orders ?
Probably...Brammo will likely have different release dates around the world and each area gets it's own timeframe and confirmation email.
One thing to note, Gavin, is the passenger pegs on the Zero are an extra $250. Definitely nice to have the option, but it does increase the price delta if you are comparing a one-rider Enertia vs a two-rider Zero S.
If I was looking at a bike for use on the highway much or with a passenger, I would want the bigger battery Zero. The ZF6 S has about 29 miles of 70 mph range. I suspect many people that decide on the Zero for those two features will end up up-selling themselves to the ZF9. Right now (er, in June) Brammo doesn't offer a two-up or a safe freeway bike.
But let's check back in a month..
Yeah, the Zero does still cost more, but not nearly as much as before.
Lots of thoughts running through my head...so I hope this post is somewhat coherent....
1) I still plan to buy the Plus...I was probably the first person to click through and confirm my order. I really like the Enertia and think the Plus addresses some issues and will improve an already very good bike into an excellent one.
2) A price increase does not surprise me...the amount does a bit. Telling people the price of the Enertia is easier at, "this one is about 8, for double the range is about 9 thousand" than "this one is 8, twice the range is 11 thousand." 11k sounds expensive.
I wish it had a price point of 9,999 as under 10k is important in peoples minds...but I understand. Quality and parts went up and dealerships will want some profit too...and Brammo is now in their third or fourth year...at a certain point a company needs to make some profit. And it's not like there is a lower priced electric motorcycle out right now to force Brammo to lower the price.
3) One concern is the Enertia Classic price. All the body improvements of the Plus are also going into the Enertia Classic, except the battery....Is the Brammo battery really that expensive? 3K for 3 kWh of battery? Or will the Enertia Classic also increase in price?
4) It does open up competition with Zero. At 9k I thought Brammo had a slam dunk vs Zero. The Enertia Plus would have been hands down the best choice as a city/ suburban commuter...by far.)
I like the Brammo style (clean, simple and not nearly as "cluttered") and of course Brammo has been very good to me (and while I would never buy a Zero product due to the way I view the company by the conduct of their staff---well I have never bad mouthed Zero as a bike to any person who asks me about electric motorcycles...in fact I always mention both Brammo and Zero as example of good bikes out on the market that people should look into)...but many people will like the Zero style and abilities.
But then I say again (and again and again)...competition is a good thing.
5) I'm 19 on the pre-order list and already confirmed my order...I expect I should be in the first batch of bikes released...so come June I will have lots of images and thoughts on the Plus vs the Enertia Classic :)
Of course I would have loved to get the Plus at 9 k...even 10k...but I can still pull the trigger at 11k...Just a bit worried that the cost will affect sales here in the states...not so much in Europe.
One mild concern is that Brammo could lower the cost soon after release...like they did with the original Enertia...again, not a big concern of mine...I'm a gamer...I know that if you want Mass Effect 3 on day 1 that you pay full price and that the price will be much lower after a few months...and truthfully if Brammo in 6 months can get the price under 10k I will be happy for them as I think that will help sales. People have a point in their heads...under 10K is affordable, over 10k is expensive...strange, but true.
More thoughts will come I'm sure...So far Brammo has not asked for their non refundable deposit...I likely won't send in any money till I've seen the Empulse as there is a slight chance I could "move up" to that model once I've seen the final production version...but unlikely...I like the Enertia Plus style a lot.
It will be interesting to see numbers, if Brammo cares to share, of how many people go from pre-orders to confirmation to deposit to owners...
Gavin
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Just a comment about Zero prices. My Zero S ZF9 sold with an out-the-door price (in California), which included 8.25% sales tax, licensing fee, document fee and a Zero windshield, of exactly $16,000. California gives you back (as long as the money holds out) $900 for any current model street-legal EV - which is something, but at that price range, not a major consideration. My thinking is that Brammo could undercut that price with the Empulse with careful parts selection. Plus, their assembly cost is likely lower in Europe, than Zero pays for labor costs in Santa Cruz. On the other hand, the Zero doesn't look like it takes a lot of labor to assemble.
Most of the Zero parts (such as the suspension) appear to be very high quality. The individual parts look and are assembled better than the parts on either of my two BMWs. Where the Zero falls down is the quality of the paint and decals on their plastic parts, particularly the "tank" and tail assemblies. Also, the battery box is pretty blah. Just a black plastic box. It won't win any styling awards, but the bike is easy to clean - if that is something that you like to do. ;)
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yeah, i think Brammo will keep the Empulse NEAR 14k...
I also think the Empulse will be a big winner in the electric motorcycle segment here in the States...and I think the Enertia and Plus will be big winners in the electric motorcycle segment in Europe. Whether the Enertia does as well in the States...well time will tell.
It will be interesting to see....1) I think the Empulse will drink the Zero S's milkshake here in the States when it comes out...but
2) the Zero S could drink the Enertia and Plus's milkshake here in the States...and
3) the Zero S could do better in Europe than the Empulse (though I think the Empulse could do well in Japan)...But
4) The Enertia and Plus will do better than either the Zero or the Empulse in Europe...
of course this is all just guesses....
As I said, competition is good...Zero doing well will help Brammo customers and Brammo doing well will help Zero customers...and that is important because when Honda comes along it will get real crazy...
Gavin
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The way I see it is that Brammo's problem is that there are a limited number of customers in the U.S. (the market is likely a lot larger in Europe) who are interested in and can afford electric motorcycles. This limited market is being gobbled up by Zero at the moment. I wonder how many EV people will be left when the Empulse and Plus finally come out? You know what they say, "the early bird gets the worm" - even if the early bird is not the best looking of the flock. ;)
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Eh...kinda...but hopefully this is a Growth Market...
If all the potential EV motorcycle customers are gobbled up in the first couple of months, well then both companies are in deep doo doo... :)
Gavin
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from facebook:
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s720x720/64050_10150563994145443_108820970442_9380444_817656462_n.jpg)
the blue is growing on me...but that is Brammofan's color...so still leaning Black...maybe silver...maybe blue...
Gavin
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The way I see it is that Brammo's problem is that there are a limited number of customers in the U.S. (the market is likely a lot larger in Europe) who are interested in and can afford electric motorcycles. This limited market is being gobbled up by Zero at the moment. I wonder how many EV people will be left when the Empulse and Plus finally come out? You know what they say, "the early bird gets the worm" - even if the early bird is not the best looking of the flock. ;)
Well, Richard, my expertise in marketing dynamics is about the same as it is in brain surgery. But after talking with Scuderia West about the Empulse, I see it as attracting a completely different segment from the Zero and Enertia Plus.
While I'm attracted mainly for the freeway commuting capability and range, I now see there's a huge sport bike following that will see it in that light. The Zero (which I've ridden and you own) is a nicely conceived light, small bike. The larger Empulse with sport bike tires will appeal to those who would love to streak around on a 600 cc ICE bike but without the cost and hassle of gas and maintenance, and, just maybe, be attracted to the absence of noise. (Probably not!).
So I think, at least as far as Empulse is concerned, it could crack open another piece of the market which could then translate into increased attraction to the Enertia Plus, Zero, lighter bikes. Sort of like how Chevy dealers put a Corvette on the lot near the street.
As in all things, time will tell.
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Website (http://www.brammo.com/) is updated now.
We know most of the information already. Some new tidbits:
* 1,500 cycles to 80% capacity (about 90k miles)
* 6.2 kWh nominal capacity (vs 5.3 kWh ZF6, 7.9 kWh ZF9) .. verifies capacity is nominal
* 80 mile range confirmed in the MIC city driving test - same driving test as the EPA UDDS
ZF6 Zero S gets 76 miles for the UDDS, with 30 lbs less weight and regen braking. I expect the Enertia Plus to get about 10-15% more range at speeds around 40-55 mph - maybe more if you really get into the throttle on the much more powerful S.
I agree with Richard230 that Zero has a pretty strong early lead, in word of mouth from early adopters and sales distribution. The ZF6 and the Enertia Plus are very squarely pitted against each other - at the original $9k I could see Brammo capturing a lot of buyers that aren't in the market for a $12k bike.
But we will see.
This feels very much like 3 years ago, when the Enertia debuted at $12000. Interest really kicked up when it dropped to $8000 just over two years ago, though I think a combination of down economy, depressed gas prices, and range that really was too small held it back.
Today we have two bikes (50-60 mile real world range) competing in the $11-12k price bracket. They're both marked improvements over their predecessors of three years ago (http://green.autoblog.com/2009/04/07/zero-motorcycles-unveils-the-zero-s-w-video/) (the Zero more so than the Enertia, IMO). The economy is a little better, gas is up 50-100%. We'll see how round 2 goes.
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Got my email today. I did NOT confirm! A $2000 price increase for what, a lousy 60mph? Not worth it Brammo. What a joke! I'm looking at the Zero. I actually got to see one and sit on it at the Cycle World Motorcycle Show.
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg696/scaled.php?server=696&filename=cimg0516t.jpg&res=medium)
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i'm disappointed to say that after over a year on the waiting list, an announcement with unchanged specs and a 22% increase in price means that i'm not going through with my pre-order. part of being an early adopter is feeling good about endorsing the product, and unfortunately, i am extremely put off by company tactics like this-- using unrealistic teases to get free press and drum up interest. it's a shame, because it looks like a really nice bike.
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Got my email today. I did NOT confirm! A $2000 price increase for what, a lousy 60mph?
Now Sam, when you first expressed interest in the Enertia Plus, the only thing you were looking at was increased range. Brammo has been consistent with the 60+top speed, so no surprise there. I can understand being upset about the price increase, however. That, plus the uncertainty of any Federal or state incentives to balance it out makes it a difficult decision. Anyway, I still hope you'll hang around the forum -- always did enjoy your posts.
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The specs aren't completely unchanged vs what was announced 16 months ago - the motor has a bit more torque and better heat management, low-speed handling is refined and Brammo actually slightly over-delivered on the battery.
You both are correct that Brammo badly overshot its original price and release date estimates, and there will be a lot of preorder customers that pull out because of that alone.
I may be more charitable than others, but I think Brammo believed they could hit their original price point when they first announced the Enertia Plus. It will be interesting to see how they justify their failure to meet their price objective.
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I must say even as an obvious Brammo fanboy I too am a bit alarmed by the price increase because it will most certainly translate over to a higher price tag on the Empulse. With apparently only the 10.0 available a price increase may put it out of my budget, yes even with the CO tax credit... I just dont have that much money set aside for a motorcycle. I have a pre order in for an 8.0 which originally had 1500 federal rebate and the 6k state rebate in mind... I know I dont have as much room to complain, but my wife certainly does! I really had to convince her to let me buy the 12k 8.0... I will have some explaining to do.
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Hopefully within a years time there will be Zero S bikes and Brammo Enertia Plus and Brammo Empulses throughout the United States and people can test ride them all and make a good informed decision on what they want and what they like...
Right now it is a bit of a jump, a leap of faith for us early adopters...but then it almost always is.
Hopefully not too many people in a years time are saying, "dang, I wish I had bought a Zero" or "dang, I wish I had bought a Brammo"....
Luckily both companies seem to have good product...so whichever you buy should give you years of enjoyment.
Gavin
And yes I'm surprised by the price too...at the same time, running out to buy an even more expensive bike seems counter intuitive....unless the more expensive bike fits you needs better. So for me I'm still going with the Plus...but I easily see many going Zero...and many waiting for prices to go down...not everybody has 11, 12,13,14 plus thousand bucks for a commuter bike.
Proto seems to think the Plus will go 70...I've had the Enertia up to 65...either is great for city or suburbs and even fine for short highway jaunts...but the Enertia is not a highway bike a any speed...give me 80 mph top speed and I will still drive it about 1% of the time on the highway...which is the same as I ride the current Enertia on the highway. I would like that extra 5 mph as it helps a bit here and there...at the same time it is a strange sickness in us 2 wheeled people...we always want 5 more mph... :)
Gavin
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Perhaps they can go the fisker route and give early adopters a break... that will also get many people off the fence for a big increase in initial sales and pre-order conversion. That would be a good gesture to those who have waited an agonizing 2 full years, and once you get the most enthusiastic customers out on your product, we will sell the rest for you!
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Whatever happens, I am really looking forward to having all of the Zero and Brammo models on the showroom floor in 2012. It looks like there will be a model for just about every taste and need. However, my guess is that the prices will keep the market limited to retired Baby Boomers (more like a War Baby in my case) like me who have their home paid off and a nice retirement plan and single, Silicon Valley-type workers, with big paychecks and a love for electrical stuff. Or am I over simplifying things again. ;)
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Gavin, if you hit 65 on the Enertia I think you can probably hit 70 on the Enertia Plus. The Perm motor should have more sustained power, even though the peak power ratings are similar. You might have to regear the Enertia Plus to hit 70 though, it's not clear if the gearing has changed.
Richard230, I think you described the market for $12-14k motorcycles in general ; )
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I will agree that Brammo could explain the price increase to us a bit....it is not an insignificant amount and it was sudden...
Gavin
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So... a late reply from me out of the gloomy Netherlands, where we are being kept blissfully unaware of all this happy news.
I looked at the Euro price listed now on the pre-order page, and that doesn't look too bad to me: €8,655 includes VAT. Do you think that's going to stay like that? It used to be around the same amount in Euros as the dollar price...
If only I could hijack one of your bikes when (if?) they are shipped from Hungary through a port near here...
I'm still sad (and a little angry now) that Brammo doesn't bother telling me what's going on, and how or when my pre-order will become real.
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I'm still sad (and a little angry now) that Brammo doesn't bother telling me what's going on, and how or when my pre-order will become real.
I feel your pain. The truth of it is that the availability of your bike really depends on how many people before you drop out. I recently got an email from Adrian (i.e. Brammo) in reply to an inquiry that I had about being able to ride my Empulse to the TXGP World Championship in October.
"Wether you will have your bike by then is another matter, it really depends on how many people in front of #935 either cancel or defer their orders…..
If no one does then its unlikely we would get to #935 by October………. Sorry I can’t be more precise"
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Also, the announcements/emails for the Enertia Plus have, I think, only gone out to USA pre-orders. Just guessing here, but it's likely because EU homologation has not taken place (or been completed, at least).
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Got my e-mail from Brammo Wednesday.
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I will agree that Brammo could explain the price increase to us a bit....it is not an insignificant amount and it was sudden...
But Gavin, that assumes they have any clue what CRM stands for! :)
And they demonstrably don't. :(
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hmmmm, I might have dyslexia...I thought you were giving me the acronym for Cry Me a River....
Gavin
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Whatever happens, I am really looking forward to having all of the Zero and Brammo models on the showroom floor in 2012. It looks like there will be a model for just about every taste and need. However, my guess is that the prices will keep the market limited to retired Baby Boomers (more like a War Baby in my case) like me who have their home paid off and a nice retirement plan and single, Silicon Valley-type workers, with big paychecks and a love for electrical stuff. Or am I over simplifying things again. ;)
I guess I read that wrong "Over payed Silicon Valley-types" lol
but either was I guess that puts me in the second category...
Looks like I joined the party late, yet again...
if the plus starts coming out in June, I don't think I'll be riding my empulse anytime soon...
Just saw the zero s ZF9, doesn't look too bad, but I still prefer the empulse...
But I'm still tempted to just say "Hell with it all, I've waited too long, I might as well buy a
Ducati Monster 696 (http://goaz.com/bike.php?bike_id=685&landingpage=blue (http://goaz.com/bike.php?bike_id=685&landingpage=blue)) and call it a day"....
Realistically, it costs $9295 and will probably be about 5K cheaper than the empulse...
My annual savings on gas will probably be about 1000 the electric route over 5 years it ends up costing me the same as the empulse (plus maintenance costs :D)
Argh!!!
come out with it already... I'm getting old, I'll be in my third decade by the time I get this thing if I'm patient...