Brammo Empulse Discussion > Brammo Empulse
Empulse Marketing Boo Boo
machone:
Well said Ninja.
Due to my previous lack of knowledge of the subject, before the launch I too was taken in by the thought of a Monster like electric bike for under 15000.
I don't believe any of the hype or figures now and will wait to ride it before I buy it. Trust lost and if the bike doesn't come up with the goods, possibly a sale lost too.
skuzzle:
Using the same Marketing logic you could compare a Nissan Leaf to a Nissan 370Z because there is only a $5k price difference.
I think the performance of the Empulse is at a critical point. I don't care if it's as fast as a SV650, but I really do care if its performance is close to a Ninja 250 (I'm not saying that it is). The whole story about the bike is that it is motorcycle "without compromise". I think that's open to debate. We know the 0-60 speed and the top-end, but we have no idea what happens in between. This bike is not the Tesla of motorcycles. The Tesla is faster than the average car, not the other way around. It also has decent range.
I think the bigger marketing issue for Brammo is do they really know who there target market is? The price removes most 20-somethings. The range removes many canyon carvers and touring types. So does it make sense to design the bike against Ducati's, and other high end bikes? Is your market segment into "street fighter" style bikes? Can you really compare the looks of a naked bike filled with batteries to a something like Ducati Monster where all the motor bits are visible? Can you compare it against smooth race bike look alike such as the Panigale or R1 on looks alone? If this is a commuter, then what does that market need?
Frankly I think in their quest for secrecy they missed opportunities for input. I'm sure there are people on this forum who would sign a non disclosure agreement and give input. It doesn't seem like the number of preorders haven't risen much since the public release. I think they know they are in trouble.
Brammofan:
You guys may be on to something. But before I throw Brammo under the bus, could you share your CVs with us? Depending on your education and experience in the motorcycle or EV or automobile or a related industry, I might give your opinions more weight than those of Brammo.
If you've been involved with a company that has gotten investor funding from someone roughly the size of Polaris, that would help, too.
protomech:
I agree with flar @ the Ducati Monster example. It's more an example of where the Empulse is positioned within the electric bike market. Compare "the Ducati of electric bikes" vs "an electric Ducati". The former is where Brammo seems to want to be.
The Tesla Roadster is roughly five times as expensive as a typical new car ($120k, $24k).
The Empulse is less expensive than a typical new car, and is maybe 2x as expensive as a typical new bike ($8-10k).
"without compromise" is marketing-ese, certainly the Empulse still has all the fundamental compromises of an EV. The J1772 onboard charger and the transmission do eliminate some of the larger compromises (recharge time in the field and top speed vs acceleration) that have come with every production electric bike to date, including the 2012 Zero bikes.
flar:
--- Quote from: protomech on May 16, 2012, 03:46:51 PM ---The Tesla Roadster is roughly five times as expensive as a typical new car ($120k, $24k).
The Empulse is less expensive than a typical new car, and is maybe 2x as expensive as a typical new bike ($8-10k).
--- End quote ---
How do you determine "typical" there? The comparison I've seen for the Roadster compares it to its IC equivalent which would be the Lotus (forget which model) from which its body was adapted. The typical ratio is more like 2x for that, and I believe it outperforms the Lotus.
Tesla Model S is much harder to peg down, but they seem to be comparing it to BMW 5 series since it fits there due to price and roughly in terms of features (though the jury is out on predicting the general luxuriousness of the final cabins of the S). Since it has a full range of prices from 50K to 100K, you can easily find a car that it sits with in terms of price (just like there are IC bikes at the same price point as the Empulse, but they tend to be radically different in terms of performance and style).
The Empulse is brand new so it wasn't adapted from a particular IC. It's "like" a Monster in many ways, naked performance-ish-oriented sporty standard, but it's far from a very good fit - but it is a very iconic bike that makes an easily accessible comparison. The Monster would outperform the Empulse on many power related stats, but if a Zero can nearly topple a 200HP IC bike in 40-60, then the Empulse is going to embarrass the Monster in quite a few categories. Handling remains TBD. It is around 2x the price of the lowest Monster.
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