Brammo Owners Forum
General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Richard230 on October 02, 2016, 05:53:05 PM
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A link in the Hydrogen Highway is being built across from Alice's Restaurant in the Santa Cruz Mountains, south of San Francisco. What a monumental boondoggle! I have heard that there are just a few H2 cars in all of California and I believe all of those are production prototypes being tested by the auto manufacturers. I am pretty sure that none are privately owned at this time. However, should anyone in the SF Bar Area buy an H2-powered auto, they can always drive up into the mountains to find a filling station, which is being built at great expense by some government agency using taxpayer funds. >:(
This complex has been under construction all summer long and is now reaching the point where some of the equipment is being installed. Attached are photos that I took today and I will post updates as the construction continues until the project is complete and the security fencing is removed. All that equipment just to supply one filling outlet. I have my doubts if I will ever be able to post a privately-owned hydrogen-powered car filling up at this out-of-the-way station, though.
I might add that today I spoke with a couple of local residents, including one of the owners of Alice Restaurant, and they also think the station is a big joke. ::)
Attached is a photo of the H2 pump.
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And here is a photo of the H2 tanks. ???
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Looks like an accident waiting to happen. :(
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Hydrogen under very high pressure being carried in an car on public highways? What could go wrong?
And then there's the preposterous economics of the whole H2 energy cycle: Most of it derives from natural gas and takes huge amounts of energy to compress it. Boondoggle indeed!
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Here is a link to some interesting and informative information regarding Hydrogen-fueled cars:
https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/8-things-you-need-to-know-about-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars.html (https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/8-things-you-need-to-know-about-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars.html)
And here is a link to the locations of H2 stations in California:
http://cafcp.org/stationmap (http://cafcp.org/stationmap)
This description is for the hydrogen station being built across from Alice's Restaurant, at the intersection of State highways 35 and 84: Woodside, 17287 Skyline Boulevard, Woodside, CA 94062:
Station Type: Retail - In development
Development Status: Commissioning
Expected to Open: March 2017
Hydrogen Source: Gaseous H2 Delivery
Station Customer Service: (604) 904-0412
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The Hydrogen Highway has returned to Skylonda and is now being worked on again. I wonder where the money came from and who is going to drive up into the Santa Cruz mountains to refill their H2-powered car? Especially as no company has even bothered to install an L2 charging station in the area. ::)
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Holy Crap Batman !!!! Did not see that coming.... Hydrogen has been very successful in Germany.... Certainly environmentally friendly.... We think we are on top.... In actuality, we are wayyyyy behind....
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That's still not done yet? It looked like that last year.
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That's still not done yet? It looked like that last year.
Give it another year and maybe it will finally be completed. The history of that construction project is that they tend to shut down work during our terrible winters in the San Francisco Bay Area. ::)
Oh yes, they also tend to stop work when the contractor doesn't get paid for a few years. ;)
That hydrogen highway sure as a few bumps and potholes in it. ;D
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Terrible winters hah I can only think of one really rainy one.
There is a hydrogen station near the San Jose Airport at a gas station. That's the only one I know of and I've seen one at Harris Ranch next to the Tesla chargers on I5.
When someone cracks the secret to refining hydrogen at no cost that'll be the day H2 takes off.
It would be cool to have a hydrogen station for small cars or motorcycle/scooters where it would be like exchanging BBQ propane tanks but then again you could do the same for batteries. And filling up hydrogen doesn't take that long.
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A stop on the California Hydrogen Highway has finally been completed after years of construction and at a cost of millions of dollars. Plus, it is located where hydrogen-powered vehicles are unlikely to travel - across from Alice's Restaurant, located in the Santa Cruz Mountains, about 50 miles south of San Francisco. While the station may now be completed there appears to be no one to operate it, likely because they can't find anyone that can sleep long enough for a customer to arrive. ::)
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What an utter waste!
At least if there's a massive fire, it will mostly be redwoods that are hundreds of years old that will be destroyed.
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This guy doesn't believe that hydrogen-powered vehicles have much of a future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b88v-WvqzeQ
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It would be a fun drive up there to refuel at least. I can't believe they don't have an EV charger up there though, I have to charge at the Portola Library when i had the Empulse. I am actually for hydrogen, if they can find a way to make green hydrogen in mass it would be great. Batteries seriously are heavy. One thing I would love is a hydrogen fuel cell portable generator. Would be like a propane generator I guess but it wouldn't make any noise or emissions.
It's tempting to buy a Mirai right now. Toyota is practically paying you to drive it. It literally depreciates from a $60k car to a $15k car, the quality is really good also. A lot of the world is turning hydrogen also. It's really expensive the hydrogen right now though, if you don't have the fuel card from the manufacturers. It makes more sense to have an EV and have solar panels at home. But if you live in an apartment hydrogen is actually a better way to go. You don't have to worry about battery degradation also.
Segway might be producing this the Segaway Apex H2
https://in.news.yahoo.com/segways-apex-h2-hydrogen-powered-112403433.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMhoSZbGsAcrI9IzsPDLsYbeygqVwL_vK_obqqdn9DjLyYOAcc1vDCKNakdG9jgDU1RUjYw5F7ysOmJhlndvi5-BoqwPk27ieDmGgjJpx9zlCXiRPu-unhcjNS4OUboT8UoiG7X_0E4ziIAf544hpKaCYax_M4-eA2Wlc8VWw56l
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/LzG0A4ahDOW7RkDChI_HFA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTU0MDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/Q0wxwKYHRenHsWyvaDcvHg--~B/aD04MTA7dz0xNDQwO2FwcGlkPXl0YWNoeW9u/https://media.zenfs.com/en/newsbytes_319/782bcf71fc2ecdb19ead58d4fd068413)
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What impresses me most about hydrogen-fueled vehicles are the kind of pressures that you are dealing with. :o I can't see a vehicle the size of a motorcycle having a 700 bar pressure tank, strong, light and small enough to fit in a motorcycle frame. Then the other question becomes would the rider feel comfortable with a pressure tank like that located under their butt or in front of their crotch? ;)
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I think if you are comfortable having a highly flammable liquid between your legs I think the tank of hydrogen is not a big deal =P But yeah the Apex H2 is interesting supposedly you can take the tanks out and swap them kind of like a BBQ grill. It would take a lot of force to make the tank explode. If the tank is pierced the H2 would just vent out. But yeah it would suck if it vented out on to you. They've done a lot of testing with automobiles but yeah I wonder what it would be like on a bike.
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I think if you are comfortable having a highly flammable liquid between your legs I think the tank of hydrogen is not a big deal =P But yeah the Apex H2 is interesting supposedly you can take the tanks out and swap them kind of like a BBQ grill. It would take a lot of force to make the tank explode. If the tank is pierced the H2 would just vent out. But yeah it would suck if it vented out on to you. They've done a lot of testing with automobiles but yeah I wonder what it would be like on a bike.
When it comes to motorcycle riders, perception is more important than reality. Tanks pressurized to 700 bars might be safe if properly designed and constructed, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will feel safe to the rider or that customers will flock to an H2-powered motorcycle manufacturer. ;)
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An article in my newspaper today, published by CalMatters, says that California "may pay $300 million for hydrogen fuel stations despite low demand". The article says that "Chevron, Shell and Toyota are seeking a 30% share of money from the state Clean Transportation Program, amounting to $300 million over the next decade." The program is funded by annual fees paid by California drivers, $6 every time you renew your license each year.
"So far, the California Energy commission has spent $202 million for hydrogen fuel stations. Yet there is still low demand for the cars, with sluggish sales. Only two hydrogen models are available, the Toyota Mirai and the Hundai Nexo, and only 1,767 have been sold in California this year. Last year's sales declined 20%, although sales are up this summer."
"In all, Californians own only about 12,000 hydrogen-powered cars, compared to more than 760,000 powered by batteries."
H2 stations will triple by 2027, resulting in four times more than the amount needed to support even the vehicle manufacturer's best case expected volume.
Meanwhile, the state estimates that it will need nearly 1.2 million chargers for battery-powered cars by 2030. Only about 88,000 are now installed.
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I heard these gas stations are not reliable. I think if they will increase the number of stations that would help. At least if one goes down it will be easy to find one. The cost is pretty bad also, not sure how it compares to gasoline though.
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My newspaper had a comment in a column today from a SF Bay Area driver of a hydrogen-powered Toyota Mirai complaining about the cost of hydrogen fuel for her vehicle. She said that the cost per liter has risen from $16 one year ago to nearly $36 now. She was asking why the price has increased so much. She also commented that: "The half-dozen hydrogen stations in the greater San Jose area seem to be offline an awful lot, especially lately." She goes on to say: "Half the time we can't even pay the high prices if we wanted to! It is becoming a real inconvenience." She asks what is going on with H2 fuel and the poorly maintained stations?
The fellow writing the "Roadshow" column commented that: "Our daughter drove a hydrogen-powered car for a few years and also found the refueling very inconvenient at times." He asks his readers if they know more about the hydrogen fuel market than he does.
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bad development :-\
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I think that hydrogen would be fantastic for things like aviation, ships, trucking and trains. The lack of infrastructure and other issues make it far less appealing for passenger cars. I can power my electric car and motorcycle with power produced at home with solar. Unfortunately I can't make my own hydrogen.
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The attached article contains more information regarding public H2 fueling stations in California. Apparently Shell has lost interest in the public H2 business.
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The hydrogen highway is back in the news again: An long article written by Toss Woody, published by Bloomberg, titled "Navigating California's hydrogen highway with $200 and few stations" was in my newspaper today. The former long-time chief climate regulator used to drive a Toyota Mirai, but now drives a BEV Ford Mustang Mach E, which gets the same 300 mile range as her Mirai used to.
The article goes on to say: "Despite billions of dollars of investment, fuel cell cars in the U.S. are disappearing in the rearview mirror, overtaken by battery-electric models and stalled by hydrogen shortages and soaring fuel prices. Last year, drivers bought just 3,143 hydrogen cars in California - the only state that sells them - compared with 380,000 EVs."
It then goes on to say how last year Shell declined a $41 million state grant to build 50 stations in the state and that California scaled back its 200 station target to 130 stations by 2027. In February, Shell shuttered six of its seven retail hydrogen stations in the state.
A total of 66 H2 stations in California remain, but 12 have been offline for more than 30 days and others sporadically shut down due to supply shortages or equipment problems. Whereas there are currently 105,000 EV charging stations in the state (the article didn't mention how many of those are working).
Complaints about fuel prices are common. Filling up an H2 powered car can cost about $200 - the equivalent of paying $14.60 a gallon of gas.
So nothing new. Apparently the best use for hydrogen vehicles continues to be to power long-haul semi-tractor trucks.
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I heard that EVs are on the decline lately and hybrids are what everyone wants now. Hydrogen still not there yet we're all waiting for that magic battery or magic green hydrogen.
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I heard that EVs are on the decline lately and hybrids are what everyone wants now. Hydrogen still not there yet we're all waiting for that magic battery or magic green hydrogen.
I have heard the same thing. With a hybrid you don't have to go looking for a working EV charging station and I think that that word is getting around to the buying customer. They would like to be green, but they don't want to run out of a battery charge somewhere in the boondocks and need a tow to a charging facility, or need to make a long stop somewhere during their trip while their car recharges.
As for hydrogen, it might work out for large vehicles and power stations, but as a fuel for a personal automobile it sucks. ::)