Brammo Owners Forum

Hey, so I got some service documents for my Empulse and it included a ton of stuff on the Enertia and Enertia plus. Stuff about the controller, the older sevcon charger, the valence batteries.

I want to give it to someone, but they need to ensure that it gets scanned in and on the Wiki for the general public.

Who should that be?

I've seen a few people mentioning they can't get parts, or that their bike has been in the shop waiting for parts for a long period of time.

I've looked around and if people are within the warranty period, the manufacture MUST provide replacement parts to that person, and service. If they cannot, then reparations are required, up to and including purchasing the vehicle back.

For people outside the warranty period, I've found some interesting information online. The manufacturer must provide spare parts for all vehicles until the warranty on their last vehicle sold. That means, if they sell the last Empulse today, then they're required to have spare parts available for at least the warranty period (2 years) from today.

I've got a few used DeltaQ 72V chargers that were removed from working EV's and wanted to see if other DIY EV guys wanted them. The white enable wire has been permanently wired to B- so the charger is always enabled.

72VDC
1000W
12A max
912-7200

Programmed with Lithium Profiles below:
#67: (72V 73.8V)
#128: (72V 82.044V)
#211: (72V 83.16V)
#163: (72V 85.5V)
#53: (72V 87.588V)
#123: (72V 89.1V)
#164: (72V 91.188V)
#135:  (72V 93.384V)
#177: (72V 98.532V)


Asking $250 each plus shipping (About $20 in the lower 48). These were programmed as of 7/17/2016 with all of the algorithms above

I wanted to post some gear ratio and torque/force I calculated for the Brammo Empulse R.

 

Motor Peak Torque: 90N-m (66.38ft-lbs)

Rear tire: 180-55 ZR17 0.32m (1.033ft) radius

Transmission Gear Ratios:

Primary: 35T/59T = 1.69:1

1st: 14T/30T = 2.14:1

2nd:16T/28T = 1.75:1

3rd: 20T/29T = 1.45:1

4th: 22T/27T = 1.23:1

5th: 24T/25T = 1.04:1

6th: 20T/19T = 0.95:1

Final Drive: 14/38 = 2.71:1

 

Torque at rear axle:

1st: 882.09 N-m or 650.60 ft-lbs

2nd:721.33 N-m or 532.03 ft-lbs

3rd: 597.68 N-m or 440.83 ft-lbs

4th: 507.00 N-m or 373.94 ft-lbs

5th: 428.68 N-m or 316.18 ft-lbs

6th: 391.58 N-m or 288.81 ft-lbs

 

As a fun little exercise, I wondered how much force is that on the road from the rear tire? I did this wrong the first time by using ftlbs and newton-meters interchangably, thanks to Protomech for questioning me, I was rushing

 

We know Torque = radius * force * sin(90). We have torque, so the equation becomes Force = torque* 1/r

The angle is 90 degrees since the road is tangential to the tire, so its just 1. So one newton-meter of rotational force would equal one newton of force at 1 meter away. My "rear tire ratio" is 1/r, or 3.13. If calculating using feet, the ratio is 0.97.

 

Rear Tire ratio: meters: 3.13:1 (feet 0.97:1)

 

Rear tire peak force at rubber:

1st:  2760 N or 620.47 lbf

2nd: 2258 N or 507.62 lbf

3rd: 1871 N or 420.62 lbf

4th: 1587 N or 356.77 lbf

5th: 1342 N or 301.69 lbf

6th: 1226 N or 275.62 lbf

 

 

Here's some tools to convert from N-m to ft-lbs and from Newtons to lbf (pound force):

http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/newton-meters-to-foot-pounds-conversion.html

and

http://www.unitconversion.org/force/newtons-to-pound-forces-conversion.html

Hey guys!

Trying to come up with a decent name for the electric motorcycle map

It doesn't need to be easy to type because I figure most of people will be clicking a link.... and I doubt that people would be getting a business card and have to type it all in.....

Some ideas I've had:
highvoltageriders.com
hvriders.com
EVriders.com
electricmotorcyclemap.com
elmotomap.com
motuselectric.us
motuselectricus.com


Other ideas? This is getting a lot of attention. Who knows, it could be more than just a map in the future, so keep that in mind.

Thanks for taking the survey. Its over and I'll work on posting results.

I saw on another forum that someone was calculating the cost per mile range of cars, and figured I'd do the same for the Empulse/R and Zero S models. then I went further and tried to put them on a more even playing field with respect to charging. Here's what I found:

Cost per Mile range

Brammo Empulse R
Cost: ~$18,995 retail
Cost/121 Mile range City: ~$157

Brammo Empulse (base model)
Cost: ~$16,995 retail
Cost/121 Mile range City: ~$140

Zero S ZF11.4
Cost: ~$15995 retail
Cost/137 Mile range City: ~$117

Zero S ZF8.5 (base model)
Cost: ~$13995 retail
Cost/103 Mile range City: ~$136

So going by City Only Cost/Mi range the order from best value of cost/mi range to worst is:

Zero S ZF11.4 with L2 capability: $117
Zero S ZF8.5 (base model) with L2 capability: $136
Brammo Empulse (base model): $140
Brammo Empulse R: $157

But all things are not equal...The Empulse and Empulse R come with J1772 L1/L2 as standard (no DCFC yet). Zero bikes come with standard 110V plug only. Users can upgrade the Zero bikes to to be able to charge L1 for $400, add another charger for L2 charge times for $750 or add Chademo for $ $1800.

Charge speeds below for fully discharged pack with city miles
Brammo Empulse R and Empulse Base
L2: 3.5 hours 34.6 miles/hour

Zero S ZF11.4
110V/L1: 7.9 hours or 17 miles/hour
L2: 4.6 hours 29.8 miles/hour

Zero S ZF8.5 (base model)
110V/L1: 6 hours or 17 miles/hour
L2: 3.6 hours 28.6 miles/hour

So lets compare the two on a little more even playing field. To get something along the lines of the Brammo L2 charging capability/speed, you'd need to upgrade the Zero to L2, for an additional $400 + $750 = $1150.

But that isn't exactly the same charge time... so lets calculate some charger cost multipliers.

For $750 you get an increase from 17mi/hr to 29.8mi/hr = 12.8mi/hr on the ZF11.4 and 17mi/hr to 28.6mi/hr = 11.6mi/hr on the ZF8. The cost per mi/hr for each charger upgrade is $59 per mi/hr and $64.66 per mi/hr respectively. That's only the cost of the charger, not the J1772 port, as the charge port has nothing to do with charge times.

So the difference between the Zero ZF11.4 and the Empulse is 34.6-17 = 17.6 mi/hr. So multiply that by $59 and get $1038 equivalent. The ZF8.5 would $1138. Not saying this is possible, but going by the charger costs/charge times, this is what an equivalent 34.6 mi/hr charge capability would cost. Both would need the $400 J1772 charge plug.

Redoing the above numbers for cost/mile for the Zero with charger multipliers
Zero S ZF11.4 with L2 capability
Cost: $15995 + 1038 + 400 = $17433
Cost/137 Mile range City: ~$127

Zero S ZF8.5 (base model) with L2 capability
Cost: $13995 + 1138 + 400 = $15533
Cost/103 Mile range City: ~$151


So going by City Only Cost/Mi range and including the charge multiplier, the order from best value of cost/mi range to worst is:

Zero S ZF11.4 with L2 capability: $127
Brammo Empulse (base model): $140
Zero S ZF8.5 (base model) with L2 capability: $151
Brammo Empulse R: $157

So it looks like Zero S ZF11.4 gives the best cost/mile range, but the Empulse Base Model jumped past the ZF8.5. ZF11.4 increased $10/mi range, ZF8.5 increased $5/mi range.


This is all estimation, but it does illustrate that things are a little closer than they seem at first glance.

Just got a tweet from Brammo:

Good Morning, #Portland, #Oregon! Today we welcome Polaris of Portland to the #Brammo dealership family! http://www.polarisofportland.com/Default.asp

This is awesome news!