Brammo Owners Forum
General => Brammo News And Views => Topic started by: Brammofan on March 13, 2012, 12:07:59 PM
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No, I haven't seen it yet, but she just added me on Twitter today, so I expect something to show up soon.
Go ahead and follow her at @LATcarpenter
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So this happened:
[smg id=318 width=400]
Then we exchanged emails, then she sent me her number, then I called her.
We had a nice chat. :D
Maybe I'll get a line or two in tomorrow's article... who knows?
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very nice....
did she seem more interested in the Enertia or the Empulse?
G
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And now, she's just hit up empulsebuyer for an interview. ;)
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very nice....
did she seem more interested in the Enertia or the Empulse?
G
She was interested in my experience with the Enertia. She should interview you, Gavin. I could send her your contact info if you're interested.
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sure...my days are kinda hectic at the hospital...but I could find some time...though I'm sure she got tons of stuff from you and EB...
G
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I have not talked to her yet... not even sure which medium she wishes to use at this point... phone, email, live chat etc...
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Well, I sent her your email. Not sure if you'll hear from her or not - her article is coming out tomorrow, I think.
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Well, I sent her your email. Not sure if you'll hear from her or not - her article is coming out tomorrow, I think.
Not sure if this directed at me...
I have some time here and there and would be happy to talk with her....I just don't think I would be as interesting as B.Fan
G
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This just in ...
Susan's article delayed until tomorrow (Thursday, March 15, 2012).
No problem... we're a patient bunch. ;D
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_akLHpeO7qyA/TTtClzX0hpI/AAAAAAAADOQ/JRPyaNy9mtM/s1600/patience%2Bdog%2Bwill%2Bkill%2Byou%2Bin%2Byour%2Bsleep.jpg)
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Argh. One more day of waiting for news...
A note about the LA Times website (for folks like me who didn't know). It has a monthly limit of the number of pages that it will let you read. After that limit they ask you to subscribe, or wait until next month.
Well, I hit the limit, so I guess I'm going to have to either subscribe ($1 per month), do some tricks to make the website think that I'm a new person, or simply read the article (when it comes out) on a different computer.
By the way, besides Brammofan, did anyone else get interviewed? EmpulseBuyer? Gavin?
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I have not yet been contacted...
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Argh. One more day of waiting for news...By the way, besides Brammofan, did anyone else get interviewed?
No, I did not, but I am open to the idea.
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I wanna be interviewed. I'm important . . . kinda . . . sorta . . . yeah, ok. :D
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From Brammos reply on Facebook I am under the impression that something (ANYTHING!!!) will be revealed
yesterday today... The least Brammo could do is give us a teaser image of the production Empulse. I guess all we can do is cross our fingers, and continue to wait, very patiently...
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Another day has come and gone... I hope Susan's article comes out soon (unless it has already come out and nobody noticed).
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Hasn't shown up yet... apparently it's still in the works.
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I think it's fair to assume* Ms. Carpenter's article is independent from the actual Empulse launch details. Brammo will deliver the details when they're ready, not when one particular reporter has an article prepared.
Just so that's clear..
Edit: words, words, words..
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Definitely. I'd be surprised to see anything we'd consider "new" in her article.
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Yes I appologize for the implication that we would see something new in the article... :-\
I was under that impression based on a response from Brammo on Facebook. These guys are tricky at dodging directed requests for new information! Im sure they have good reasons though... just one such example would be the surprisingly familiar headlight on the new Zeros.
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Worth the wait?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric-motorcycle-20120317,0,7364322.story (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric-motorcycle-20120317,0,7364322.story)
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"In May, Brammo will begin production of its Empulse sport bike (priced at $10,000 to $14,000, depending on range) that's capable of 100-plus mph and 100 miles per charge in its top model."
If thats true then the wait was very much worth it... Im not sure whether to be excited or skeptical :-\
I wonder if Brammo is going to pull a hat trick here!
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Nice to finally see the article. w00t!
Some observations:
"In May, Brammo will begin production of its Empulse sport bike (priced at $10,000 to $14,000, depending on range) that's capable of 100-plus mph and 100 miles per charge in its top model.
The company will also be turning out the Enertia Plus commuter ($11,000), which will have an 80-mile range."
- According to the article, Brammo is still intending on offering three ranges. :-)
- The least expensive Empulse will be cheaper than the Plus. That might make sense since the Plus would have more range (80 miles) than the cheapest Empulse (60 miles), but seems suspicious to me.
- The May date is pretty exciting, but somewhat surprising. I wonder what she means by "begin production"? That they will have finalized the specs and start building bikes that will end up in customers' hands, or that they will start to build bikes that will be available only for demos?
- A few weeks ago, I email Brammo about the availability of the Empulse, and they said that they had planned to release the final specs in April. Considering that the Enertia specs came out in February, but the first bike isn't expected to be available until June (4 months), the Empulse schedule would appear to be going much faster.
"Brammo of Ashland, Ore., said sales of its Enertia were only in the hundreds."
Somebody on the Elmoto forum was claiming that Brammo had only sold 50 Enertias (http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2020-2012-Brammo-(Enertia-Plus-amp-Empulse)-Delivery-schedule-....). I assume that Ms. Carpenter managed to get reliable figures form Mr. Bramscher. "In the hundreds" is still pretty low, but definitely more than 50.
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I think May is pretty wonderful. And yes, I'm not sure what "in production"means, other than the obvious: building a final product that gets shipped out.
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Well now. I'm clearly wrong about no new information : P
The Enertia Plus doesn't have more range on a like-for-like comparison, it has a higher range specification because Brammo expects it to be operated at a lower speed. The EP's range spec is under the EPA UDDS / MIC city test (ave 20 mph), same as the Zero's city range .. Brammo states the Empulse range at a higher speed (likely ave 45 mph riding).
It will be awesome if Brammo can meet their 2010 price targets for the Empulse. And surprising.
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The pricing is probably based on old data since there are still the three models, which Brammo had indicated that they narrowed down to just the 1 (10.0). I really hope they either stick to around 14k or they make a lesser range version available for less. Also, I think the Enertia+ may carry a premium because its shipped from Hungary, that cant be cheap, no?
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Damn, EmpulseBuyer, for a second there I thought I would have an affordable option. Back to the "how much can I get for that old crap in my closet" plan... :'(
Maybe Brammo will have some sort of 0% interest payment plan to compensate for the lack of incentives in many states...? Anyone from Brammo to take on the idea? How about Harlam? Polaris...? Anyone? ::)
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Protomech,
You've probably done the math so I'll just ask. From your comment I got the impression that the Empulse and the Enertia+ are equally efficient. Is that the case? If so that means that if a rider was capable of laying off the heavy right hand we should be able to see some very impressive ranges out of the 10.
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Damn, EmpulseBuyer, for a second there I thought I would have an affordable option. Back to the "how much can I get for that old crap in my closet" plan... :'(
Maybe Brammo will have some sort of 0% interest payment plan to compensate for the lack of incentives in many states...? Anyone from Brammo to take on the idea? How about Harlam? Polaris...? Anyone? ::)
Protomech ran through the numbers and is speculating that there may be a cheaper version, possibly a 6.2 while the 10.0 would be a 9.3 using the same battery packs... dont give up hope yet... I think Brammo will find a way to keep the original 6.0 and 8.0 pre-order customers happy.
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No math, just intuition.
Empulse will be somewhat heavier than Enertia+ - Brammo says 330 lbs Enertia+, 420 lbs Empulse 10. At low speeds (20-30 mph) it might use a bit more energy/mile, say 5-10%.
At high speeds, 40 to 50+ mph, aerodynamics starts to take over for energy/mile. Empulse might do the same as Enertia+, or it might even be a bit better if the rider is in a more aerodynamic position.
A more powerful motor isn't necessarily less efficient than a small motor. So yes, the Empulse and Enertia+ should have pretty similar ranges with light throttle application even though the Empulse is likely to be 150-250% more powerful.
Here's an example:
Zero XU ZF3 2.6 kWh, ~16hp, 221 lbs, 62.5 Wh/mile EPA UDDS (city)
Zero S ZF6 5.3 kWh, ~30hp, 297 lbs, 69.2 Wh/mile EPA UDDS
Zero S ZF9 7.9 kWh, ~30hp, 341 lbs, 69.2 Wh/mile EPA UDDS
(the ZF6/9 numbers are the same, I suspect Zero tested the ZF6 S and added +50% for the ZF9)
EmpulseBuyer:
speculation time Let's say Brammo did drop the 8.0 model, but made the 9.3 a $2000 price bump over the 6.2. Or let's say they did offer a 10.0 model, and made it a $2500 price bump over the 6.2. I think that'd make the 8.0 preorder customers pretty happy..
Edit: On facebook, Brammo shares a link (https://www.facebook.com/BrammoInc/posts/341410515894256) to the LA Times article.
They also say:
Holden - her article - Sue Carpenter says the Empulse will be here in May.....so I expect we will be nailing down an exact day very soon.
Note that they're refuting neither the date nor the price. I still think there's no way they can sell a $10k Empulse "6 kWh" at the same time as an $11k Enertia+ 6.2 kWh .. but I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. Either way, answers should be here shortly : )
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Note that they're [Brammo] refuting neither the date nor the price.
I think that is a good sign. Brammo must have been contacted for those details. I also think there must be more details behind a 10K starting price for it to be true.
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Well, the more I look at the article, the more it makes me go "hmmm." The May production date is new - and promising - but the information about the three models, I'm pretty sure is no longer correct. And, if the three models isn't correct, then I'm guessing the pricing isn't either. This isn't the first time Carpenter has spoken with Brammo - perhaps she put this together with a combination of old and new information.
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This isn't the first time Carpenter has spoken with Brammo - perhaps she put this together with a combination of old and new information.
If that's the case, it's pretty shoddy work. :o
I don't believe a journalist for the LA Times would be able to do that and keep her work. Even my freshmen students know better than that.
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In the DS ZF6 video review at the top, she trips up over Zero's misleading capacity specification and range specification.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric-motorcycle-20120317,0,7364322.story (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric-motorcycle-20120317,0,7364322.story)
0:36 "And the 6 kwh ZF6 I was testing, that can travel up to 75 miles per charge in the city, or 42 miles at a consistent 70 mph on the freeway"
1. It's not a 6 kWh bike. Its pack (to the best of my knowledge) is an 18s4p configuration of EIG 3.65v 20Ah nominal pouch cells, giving a total nominal capacity of 5.26 kWh.
2. Zero claims a 42 mile "highway commuting" range, which is the harmonic mean of its 75 mile UDDS city range and its 29.2 mile steady 70 mph range.
Granted, these are easy mistakes to make .. if you don't read closely. But it doesn't give me strong confidence in her other information, especially pricing.
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This article just got picked up by the Miami Herald.
Here is the link: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/2710398/electric-motorcycles-make-play.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/2710398/electric-motorcycles-make-play.html)
I hope it spreads to more news outlets around the country.