Brammo Owners Forum
General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Richard230 on November 22, 2012, 06:41:43 PM
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Terry (offthegrid) is has taken off on a cross country trip, from Florida to California, on his Zero S. This could be a real adventure and he will be paving the way for all future EV long distance travelers. Here is his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/lifeoffthegrid (https://www.facebook.com/lifeoffthegrid)
Lets hope he has fun, stays safe and rides fast enough not to get rear-ended by an SUV.
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And there goes my idea for an elmoto documentary... :-\
I was thinking on the Empulse and actually going on a full circle (Florida - Mexico City - Vancouver - Halifax - Florida). It would take near 3 months to complete, but it would be an awesome summer trip with lots of data to use for many different types of research and, of course, a great documentary (at least in my head). I even thought on some cool names.
I hope they do it well. I am curious about how they will go about charging the Zero in different places. Are they going with the super well-planned approach or are they going to engage in some guerrilla charging? 8)
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His route seems to stay far south. Then, the records can be for fastest trip, etc.
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And there goes my idea for an elmoto documentary... :-\
I was thinking on the Empulse and actually going on a full circle (Florida - Mexico City - Vancouver - Halifax - Florida). It would take near 3 months to complete, but it would be an awesome summer trip with lots of data to use for many different types of research and, of course, a great documentary (at least in my head). I even thought on some cool names.
I hope they do it well. I am curious about how they will go about charging the Zero in different places. Are they going with the super well-planned approach or are they going to engage in some guerrilla charging? 8)
Here is what Terry had to say on another forum about his charging plans:
Yeah west TX, NM and AZ all suck as far as charging stations go. And that's basically 1/2 the trip mileage wise. Time wise, a lot more than half as I'll be charging level 1 most of the time. I really have no clue how this will go. I have a bunch of options planned, but all requires some sort of civilization to work. I have heard horror stories from friends that gas stations can be almost 100 miles apart in some sections of I-10, with only cows and more cows in between. Hopefully the cows farmer has a 220v plug for his dryer he can let me use if I have to push my bike to his farm.
I don't think there is anyone else riding the entire distance with him. This is looking like a one-man ride, which should make it a lot more interesting to most of us that will hear his story.
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Made me think of Nathan Abbott. He's doing really well, BTW.
http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2026-Nathan-Abbot-2-years-later (http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2026-Nathan-Abbot-2-years-later)
I read elmoto religiously back then, and following the news of his accident and subsequent recovery was pretty shaking.
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Nathan's a great guy. Had lunch with him about a year ago when he came through KC during his cross country trip (on four wheels).
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Here are a few photos from Terry's Facebook page. I like the packing job. That is not easy on the small Zero. :)
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Just guessing from the shot in front of the Alabama sign, he's gonna have a real fight on his hands in strong cross winds.
Heck, depending what he's got loaded in those twin duffel bags, he may even have a challenge with wheelies!
But then, it appears he may be used to handling such loads:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/603976_354437257985418_2127053907_n.jpg)
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Here is Terry's latest message and comments about the modifications that he made to his Zero in preparation for his trip that I copied from another forum. Also attached is his latest photo. It would appear that electric motorcycles are a chick magnet. ;)
Anyone thinking of a size 6 upgrade, do it! I have almost 5000 miles on the new controller now and have loved every minute of it! You will only have less range if you choose to ride real hard and use it, knowing there is a recharging spot close by. It makes the bike so fun to ride! Even on my trip carrying hundreds of pounds of gear (check some pictures, I seriously have 400 pounds of stuff), it makes pulling out in traffic, passing and weaving through traffic so easy your confidence is boosted as you know the bike has the power to get you out of any sticky situation. The bike with 400 pounds of gear feels so nimble with so much torque.
(See pics of the size 6 on the bike, and all the luggage and follow the trip here: http://www.facebook.com/lifeoffthegrid (http://www.facebook.com/lifeoffthegrid))
As I said, if you ever wished your zero had a little more power, this is the simpliest upgrade. I rode home with the size 4 in the bike to see the package from Hollywood Electrics at my door, and less than an hour later, I rode it to the beer store with the size 6 installed and almost scared myself it was so fast. (Although the next day I did take it back out and remove 1/2 of a bolt hole on each side of the frame and then put it back it for a nice snug fit like the bike was designed for the size 6 and not the size 4 to begin with.
Still on track to hit Los Angeles by Friday if all goes to plan. Need to average about 500 miles a day on the Zero for the next 4 days like I did the first day of the trip. Stopped to see 2 good friends in Louisania I hadn't seen in 2 years and it stalled the trip a little, but back on the road this morning. Should hit Texas later today! When charge stations are close by ~50 miles or less, with the size 6 controller, the trip goes quick. Unplug, Zip through traffic fast in random towns with the torque feel of a 600cc sportbike, bulk charge only for 45 min, repeat.
As your doctor, I'm prescribing 660 amps to all of you. Take at least twice a day, and what ever ailment you may have, you will at least have a huge smile on your face you can't control when you twist the throttle. And as modern medicine believes, the more you smile and happier you are, the better the body can heal itself. So get the size 6! Doctors orders!
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I think Terry is a chick magnet.. the bike just helps : )
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Can somebody explain how the size of the controller affects bike performance, and why?
I presume that "6" is some arbitrary number that is bigger than "4". Is that true, or do those numbers correspond to something specific?
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I believe those number refer to the size of the Sevcon controller and don't have any specific relationship to the controller specifications, other than a 6 can handle more current than a 4. No doubt Protomech can give you a detailed answer.
Here is the latest from Terry. He is in Texas today and discusses how he has been charging his bike along the way. I think he is going to have a tough time making time from here on as high capacity charging stations are going to be hard to find from now on. I hope he makes it to LA by the weekend. Good luck Terry and take care.
I am hoping to be in Los Angeles by Friday, and have about 2000 miles left to go. It's going to be very close if I make it, and it's looking like I will fall short by about 400 miles unless I do 1 or 2 more all nighters, which in the final stretch I will do if it means I make it. But right now I am charging at a McDonalds in Lake Charles Louisiana and using the WiFi.
Michael, I use J1772 stations mostly from ChargePoint. I have used one Blink Station, about 8 Nissan Dealerships, and also used the 50 Amp connector at RV Campgrounds along the highway to bridge the gap between car charging stations and can run 4 chargers at once off 1 50 Amp connection. I have 5 chargers with me (3 Delta Q 1kw chargers, and 2 Elcon PFC 2.5kw chargers) Right now I am using all 5 to charge at almost 7.5kw or just under 1C charge rate, so it will take me about an hour.
When there's none of those I charge at a gas station where the outside ice machine plugs in, but it's painfully slow.
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Thank you for all the posts, Richard! I am enjoying following the story and I have zero tolerance with Facebook.
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Motor controllers typically have a maximum current rating (sometimes specified both as a short-term < 2 minute rating and a long-term 60 minute rating).
I believe the stock controller in the 2012 Zero S / DS bikes is the Sevcon G8035 (http://www.sevcon.com/media/2104/gen4_data_sheet.pdf), or the G80 Size 4. This controller is rated for 420A "boost" (<10s) output, 350A 2 minute output, and 180A 60 minute output.
I believe the 2013 bikes also use this controller, which is questionable to my mind.. the Size 4 controller is already a weak point thermally for the 2012 bikes, and the 2013 bikes make double the power (although at a higher voltage).
The upgraded controller is the Sevcon G8055, or the G80 Size 6. It's a physically larger controller rated for more current: 660A "boost" output, 550A 2 minute output, and 220A 60 minute output.
I believe the G8055 is the stock controller on the Empulse. The Empulse should be much happier under continuous load than the Zero bikes.
In electric motors, current is roughly proportional to torque. Voltage is (roughly) proportional to RPM. A 50% increase in peak current produces roughly a 30% increase in peak torque (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2521.0). Edit: this may be running into motor limitations.
As to the "4" and "6" nomenclature.. it's possible that internally the controller are modular, and the Size 4 uses twice as many modules as the Size 2, and 2/3 as many as the Size 6.. there's also a Size 8 controller (used by Brammo for the Empulse RR in 2011 I believe), and a Size 10.
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As to the "4" and "6" nomenclature.. it's possible that internally the controller are modular, and the Size 4 uses twice as many modules as the Size 2, and 2/3 as many as the Size 6.. there's also a Size 8 controller... and a Size 10.
Thanks yet again for another excelent post translating technical stuff into something that us normal folk can read.
Now, who makes a line of controllers that goes all the way up to 11? That way when someone asks why my EV is better than my gasser, I can say because this bike goes to 11...
/spinal tap
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That's a very good explanation. Thanks protomech.
Now, who makes a line of controllers that goes all the way up to 11? That way when someone asks why my EV is better than my gasser, I can say because this bike goes to 11...
/spinal tap
If your bike was that awesome, you wouldn't want anybody to touch it, or even look at it! /spinal tap
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Terry is trying to get out of Texas as fast as he can, but he keeps getting delayed by Texas hospitality. ;)
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Terry is still fighting his way across Texas. He had an issue with a ChargePoint station, as he discusses below, but he solved his problem with a little "guerrilla" charging.
There's a ChargePoint station at Oncor Electric in Big Springs TX I counted on using. But it is not only on the wrong place on the map, but behind a locked gate. I was empty and stuck. Found a truck service center and plugged into their welding outlet and am fast charging at the same rate now. I'm learning so much on this trip that electricity is everywhere, you just gotta be resourceful to find it.
Here are the latest photos of his trip posted on his Facebook page.
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It appears Terry's trip has ended. Here are his latest comments posted only an hour ago from Universal City, CA:
There are only 4 ChargePoint brand stations between Dallas texas and Tucson Arizona. That's 950 miles! Sadly none of those, all run by Oncor Electric between Big Spring, and Odessa TX allow the public to use their charging stations. My question is, if they are not for public use, why in the world are they on the map??? When planning my route across west Texas, I chose I-20 because of these charging locations. Good news is I made it to California for the important event today at 1 PM in Long Beach, CA. But I had to make a difficult choice...
It sounds to me like he had to abandon the rest of his electric motorcycle trip in order to get to LA on schedule, but he doesn't explain just how he got to California by 1 pm yesterday.
Terry's latest photos are attached.
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I see Jeremiah Johnson is at the LA motorcycle show as well. Perhaps Jeremiah drove his van as a support vehicle for Terry, and they loaded the bike into the van when it became clear they had reached the end of civilization, or at least civilized grid support, in Texas.
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From facebook (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200133110958818):
Great question! A world record was set, but it was not coast to coast yet, as I ran out of time to be in CA for the event yesterday. The trip was over 3000 miles and ended just short of the destination, and myself and the bike took a trip in a van. I am completing the coast to coast part on the way back in a few weeks. But getting here yesterday was most important.
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Here are photos of Terry in LA.
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Here is an article by AutoBlogGreen describing Terry's trip across the U.S., how he modified his Zero and his immediate plans:
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/12/13/terry-hershner-rides-zero-s-electric-motorcycle-in-guiness-world/ (http://green.autoblog.com/2012/12/13/terry-hershner-rides-zero-s-electric-motorcycle-in-guiness-world/)
After he sets a record for crossing the U.S. on a Zero electric motorcycle, someone riding a Brammo Empulse will have to give it a try. I can see an electric Cannon Ball looming in the future. ;D
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Cross-country is going to be all about rider endurance, aero, efficiency, and charging speed..
The stock ZF11.4 is rated for 85 miles @ 55 mph. It has two charging options:
120/230V AC: 7.4 hours 95% = 10.9 miles/hour. Charge 4.6h, ride 1 = 9.8 mph ave
480V DC CHAdeMO: 1 hour 95% = 81 miles/hour Charge 1h, ride 1.6 = 34 mph ave
Stock, the Empulse probably does around 70 miles @ 55 mph. It has two charging options:
120V AC: 8 hours 99% = 8.8 miles/hour. Charge 6h, ride 1 = 7.9 mph ave
230V AC: 3.5 hours 99% = 20 miles/hour. Charge 2.5h, ride 1 = 15.7 mph ave
With better aero, Zero's range could be improved..
Say 45 mph, 130 miles. Charge 1h, ride 2.9 = 33.5 mph ave
Say 55 mph, 110 miles. Charge 1h, ride 2.0 = 36.7 mph ave
Say 70 mph, 95 miles. Charge 1h, ride 1.36 = 40.3 mph ave..
When you start to charge more quickly, your travel speed actually goes up by riding at higher speeds.. even if the bike is less efficient at those speeds.
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Looks like Zero has the advantage with the CHAdeMO charger, except that (according to www.plugshare.com (http://www.plugshare.com/)) you're not going to be able to get very far since those chargers seem to be all grouped around a few population centers (Dallas, Houston, Chicago, etc). There are a couple of exceptions:
- An electrified highway (I5) from Ashland, Oregon, up to Seattle, Washington.
- An electrified loop that links Nashville, Knoxville and Chattanooga (I40, I75, I24) in Tennessee.
Having a bunch of charging options like Terry has on his Zero would be vital, unless you're willing to be very organized and ensure that every charger you stop at has the right equipment before you leave.
I wonder how much the Empulse could be modified to have more charging options.