The Hydrogen Highway

[HadesOmega]

I think if you are comfortable having a highly flammable liquid between your legs I think the tank of hydrogen is not a big deal =P  But yeah the Apex H2 is interesting supposedly you can take the tanks out and swap them kind of like a BBQ grill.  It would take a lot of force to make the tank explode.  If the tank is pierced the H2 would just vent out.  But yeah it would suck if it vented out on to you.  They've done a lot of testing with automobiles but yeah I wonder what it would be like on a bike. 

[Richard230]

I think if you are comfortable having a highly flammable liquid between your legs I think the tank of hydrogen is not a big deal =P  But yeah the Apex H2 is interesting supposedly you can take the tanks out and swap them kind of like a BBQ grill.  It would take a lot of force to make the tank explode.  If the tank is pierced the H2 would just vent out.  But yeah it would suck if it vented out on to you.  They've done a lot of testing with automobiles but yeah I wonder what it would be like on a bike.

When it comes to motorcycle riders, perception is more important than reality.  Tanks pressurized to 700 bars might be safe if properly designed and constructed, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will feel safe to the rider or that customers will flock to an H2-powered motorcycle manufacturer.   

[Richard230]

An article in my newspaper today, published by CalMatters, says that California "may pay $300 million for hydrogen fuel stations despite low demand". The article says that "Chevron, Shell and Toyota are seeking a 30% share of money from the state Clean Transportation Program, amounting to $300 million over the next decade." The program is funded by annual fees paid by California drivers, $6 every time you renew your license each year.

"So far, the California Energy commission has spent $202 million for hydrogen fuel stations. Yet there is still low demand for the cars, with sluggish sales. Only two hydrogen models are available, the Toyota Mirai and the Hundai Nexo, and only 1,767 have been sold in California this year. Last year's sales declined 20%, although sales are up this summer."

"In all, Californians own only about 12,000 hydrogen-powered cars, compared to more than 760,000 powered by batteries."

H2 stations will triple by 2027, resulting in four times more than the amount needed to support even the vehicle manufacturer's best case expected volume.

Meanwhile, the state estimates that it will need nearly 1.2 million chargers for battery-powered cars by 2030. Only about 88,000 are now installed.

[HadesOmega]

I heard these gas stations are not reliable.  I think if they will increase the number of stations that would help.  At least if one goes down it will be easy to find one.  The cost is pretty bad also, not sure how it compares to gasoline though.

[Richard230]

My newspaper had a comment in a column today from a SF Bay Area driver of a hydrogen-powered Toyota Mirai complaining about the cost of hydrogen fuel for her vehicle. She said that the cost per liter has risen from $16 one year ago to nearly $36 now. She was asking why the price has increased so much. She also commented that: "The half-dozen hydrogen stations in the greater San Jose area seem to be offline an awful lot, especially lately." She goes on to say: "Half the time we can't even pay the high prices if we wanted to! It is becoming a real inconvenience." She asks what is going on with H2 fuel and the poorly maintained stations?

The fellow writing the "Roadshow" column commented that: "Our daughter drove a hydrogen-powered car for a few years and also found the refueling very inconvenient at times." He asks his readers if they know more about the hydrogen fuel market than he does.

[empulsefan]

bad development

[sunchaser]

I think that hydrogen would be fantastic for things like aviation, ships, trucking and trains.  The lack of infrastructure and other issues make it far less appealing for passenger cars.  I can power my electric car and motorcycle with power produced at home with solar.  Unfortunately I can't make my own hydrogen.

[Richard230]

The attached article contains more information regarding public H2 fueling stations in California. Apparently Shell has lost interest in the public H2 business.

[Richard230]

The hydrogen highway is back in the news again: An long article written by Toss Woody, published by Bloomberg, titled "Navigating California's hydrogen highway with $200 and few stations" was in my newspaper today.  The former long-time chief climate regulator used to drive a Toyota Mirai, but now drives a BEV Ford Mustang Mach E, which gets the same 300 mile range as her Mirai used to.

The article goes on to say: "Despite billions of dollars of investment, fuel cell cars in the U.S. are disappearing in the rearview mirror, overtaken by battery-electric models and stalled by hydrogen shortages and soaring fuel prices. Last year, drivers bought just 3,143 hydrogen cars in California - the only state that sells them - compared with 380,000 EVs."

It then goes on to say how last year Shell declined a $41 million state grant to build 50 stations in the state and that California scaled back its 200 station target to 130 stations by 2027. In February, Shell shuttered six of its seven retail hydrogen stations in the state.

A total of 66 H2 stations in California remain, but 12 have been offline for more than 30 days and others sporadically shut down due to supply shortages or equipment problems. Whereas there are currently 105,000 EV charging stations in the state (the article didn't mention how many of those are working).

Complaints about fuel prices are common. Filling up an H2 powered car can cost about $200 - the equivalent of paying $14.60 a gallon of gas.

So nothing new. Apparently the best use for hydrogen vehicles continues to be to power long-haul semi-tractor trucks.
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[HadesOmega]

I heard that EVs are on the decline lately and hybrids are what everyone wants now.  Hydrogen still not there yet we're all waiting for that magic battery or magic green hydrogen.

[Richard230]

I heard that EVs are on the decline lately and hybrids are what everyone wants now.  Hydrogen still not there yet we're all waiting for that magic battery or magic green hydrogen.

I have heard the same thing. With a hybrid you don't have to go looking for a working EV charging station and I think that that word is getting around to the buying customer. They would like to be green, but they don't want to run out of a battery charge somewhere in the boondocks and need a tow to a charging facility, or need to make a long stop somewhere during their trip while their car recharges.

As for hydrogen, it might work out for large vehicles and power stations, but as a fuel for a personal automobile it sucks.