Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse => Topic started by: 1lesscar on December 01, 2010, 01:17:51 AM
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Yes. Let's keep it that way by not watering it down into a do it all electric bike. I read posts on here asking for things that would fit the enertia rider best. Non sport riders should go buy the other Brammo. This bike should not be for everyone.
I am a sport rider and it is my daily driver. I love the sport bike so much I just DEAL with it. If you can't deal with a real sport bike the empulse is NOT for you. Take a look at the other BRAMMO. ;)
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The Empulse in concept form has a sportbike riding position, though most sportbikes are faired.
It's certainly much faster than the Enertia 3.1, but it's not yet to the point where it'll give a 600cc sportbike a fight in a straight line.
Some people (myself included) are interested in the Empulse both for styling and for highway-capable range and speed, but are not interested in a sportbike riding position. I don't really see it as "watering down" the bike to offer both a standard and a sport riding position.
If the Enertia Plus was available with the 40kw liquid-cooled motor from the Empulse and a similar 100 mph maximum speed, then people could choose based solely on style and riding position.
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Basically Brammo is trying to sell as many bikes as possible to as many people as possible...with only two models.
So the Enertia is more upright (will sell tons in Europe and Asia), the Empulse is more sports bike (will sell more in the States than worldwide). I know it is hard to see from USA eyes, but the Enertia is going to be far and away Brammo's biggest seller as Brammo sells to Hong Kong and Europe. Heck, when Brammo makes a scooter and sells that worldwide, it will outsell the Empulse. The Empulse is a great bike, but it is an American seller mostly. Some in Japan. A few worldwide too, and it is great for Brammo's marketing, just like racing is good for marketing, but the Empulse will not be Brammo's main selling bike worldwide.
The Empulse needs to appeal to the Suzuki 650 crowd, since it is the most popular sports bike, so it will have similar seating and riding position. The final version will not be as aggressive as the concept model in position...but the end user can mod it to be, just as the end user can mod it to be more upright.
Going for the most sales will dictate that the Empulse is still a sports bike, but not a track bike. So expect it to be slightly less crunched over like you see now. Expect a similar to Suzuki 650 position.
But if you order early and ask nice, I'm sure Brammo will sell you some pegs to get that crouched position if you like...maybe even the low handlebars.
But likely it will be sporty, but a bit mild...then you just mod it the way you like similar to if you bought a standard sport bike from Honda or Yamaha or Suzuki.
Gavin
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This makes no sense. Enertia is already Brammo's main machine for the world. The Empulse suppose to attract sport riders. That is why the Empulse pictures are all sport bike NOT a SPORTY geek scooter like the enertia.
Brammo, please stick to the concept sportbike empulse, don't make it an enertia plus 2.
Look at the suzuki 650's of 2011, they are sport bikes, not gas versions of the enertia.
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I think you are unnecessarily worrying about the Empulse. It will be available as a sports bike, as you have already seen. Brammo's strategy is to offer it as a sports bike.
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I agree...relax, brammo isn't changing the empulse into an enertia...brammo will move the handlebars a bit higher and the foot pegs a bit lower to make it ride more like the Suzuki 650 and less like a track bike. That's about it.
It will still have the shape of a sports bike and to ride it you will still be hunched over like a teenager humping a turtle...so all the sports bike people should be happy.
Gavin
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I think you are unnecessarily worrying about the Empulse.
That is the definition of "obsessive Empulsive disorder."
And 1lesscar: what do you mean by "sporty geek scooter like the enertia"? Specifically, "scooter". Enertia is not a scooter.
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I think you are unnecessarily worrying about the Empulse.
That is the definition of "obsessive Empulsive disorder."
Ha! How many times a day do you need to wash your hands with Fast Orange Pumice Lotion Hand Cleaner when you have OED?
Gavin
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As for any changes stated by Brammo....
One: Handlebars are likely to be raised a bit...not like the Enertia, but more than currently in the concept model.
Two: Foot Pegs. Not as far back as currently on concept model. But current set up might be a option.
Three: Craig mentioned that he would like the seat a bit more narrow.
Four: Craig mentioned that he would like the "tank" a bit wider? I think wider.
Three and Four aren't set yet, but if Craig wants it, it will likely happen.
One and two are going to happen, but again, One: it will be easy to mod it back to current set up and Two: current set up is extreme for track racing...the mild changes will be such that the Empulse is very similar in set up to the Suzuki 650.
image showing Suzuki 650...Empulse handlebars will likely be about this high...foot pegs will likely be about this low:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5226740850_171afe441f_z.jpg)
as opposed to current bars and pegs:
(http://images.passionperformance.ca/photos/0/5/4/054442_Brammo_Goes_Global.jpg)
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Actually that 650 has the bars a bit high...expect them a bit lower..
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Suzuki_650-sv-1.jpg)
or likely this:
(http://tayeb.fr/wiki_uploads/moto/Suzuki_SV650N_2003_stpz.jpg)
maybe we will know more on the 6th :)
Gavin
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I currently own a 2006 Suzuki SV650 and the riding position of that bike is just fine with me. I am not a sportbike rider. I use my motorcycles for commuting and general transportation, as well as pleasure riding. Low bars, as are installed on the Empulse prototype are not for me, especially if you need to ride in an urban environment. However, the taller bars with a forward-leaning position, as is used on the Suzuki, would be perfect for my type of riding. So I am a happy camper with Brammo's current design direction.
However, I do believe that various bar options could be offered to suit different desired riding positions. Handlebars are easy to change. The only limiting factor would be the length of the wiring and cables that need to connect to the handlebar. Offering the bike with a taller bar and then providing a lower bar option would make the optional bars much easier to change than doing it the other way around, in my opinion.
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;)The Enertia looks very nerdy. Nothing man-ly about it. Might as well be riding a real scoot. ::)
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And 1lesscar: what do you mean by "sporty geek scooter like the enertia"? Specifically, "scooter". Enertia is not a scooter.
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Don't worry, without a clutch your motorcycle friends will be judging you on the Empulse and think you are un-manly too. Most will think the Empulse is just a scooter too...no clutch, no pipe = girly bike to too many small minded people.
Buy what you like and don't worry about what ignorant people think.
Gavin
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Side note: it is interesting, what is manly? Sports bikes are mostly for teenagers, so I wouldn't call them manly at all. Commuter rides ( scooters, the Enertia) are functional, but probably aren't thought of as manly. Harley's are manly I guess, but to me mostly "old manly" :)
If Brammo wants to make a true "manly" bike they need to basically copy the triumph T-100...that was the last true manly bike made.
Though I guess a bike is never manly or not...just the person riding it.
I've seen crazy ass tough guys you want on your side in a fight riding scooters that were made in the 60's that are barely held together by rust and flaking paint and I've seen skinny posers riding brand new sports bike that can go 150mph, but who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag...and vice versa.
So I guess I would say manly aint a bike...manly sits on a bike.
Gavin
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I own a Triumph T100 (along with two BMW's, a Yamaha FZ1, a Suzuki SV650 and an EMS GPR-S) and I want an Empulse too. Frankly, the Triumph is too noisy, sucks more gas than it should and has a tendency to warp its front rotor every few thousand miles - but I do get waves from the Harley crowd.
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Nice collection
Actually they do still make a manly bike...those BMW enduro bike aren't my style, but any bike you can ride to the store, or ride across the sahara desert, well that is manly. :)
(http://www.spiritsofadventure.com/aa/Sahara%20Simon%20Desert.jpg)
Gavin
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Buy what you like and don't worry about what ignorant people think.
Gavin
True. IMHO, the Enertia has some nerdy style to it. If you ride it , I'll still wave at you. 8)
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Gavin,
Great comment on OCD and the hand washing. I can relate.
Anyway, I have an Empulse on order. I am 61 years old. I have not been a street bike rider since the late 60's when I had a Honda 305 super hawk. I did however go thru 3 dirt bikes. The last being a YZ465 which in it's day was a pretty fast bike. So I like aggressive riding (still do I have 2 quads now for desert--not dunes riding). As you can surmise I am used to an upright riding position.
Could you guys comment on the difference in the riding technique used on a sports bike as opposed to a bike that has a more upright position?? I know they are different and I think I will have to retrain myself.
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George, if I were you I might adjust the Empulse handlebars higher up and a bit more backwards, or I would replace the handlebars for more upright seating. With sports bikes low bars you will find three things that are a concern for people more used to an upright seating position.
1. This is a biggie: you will be riding with lots of pressure and weight on your wrists. Ok for short rides or if you are a teenager or if you are used to that style. But if you are used to cruiser riding, scooter riding or touring riding, well that weight on wrists riding gets old fast. You can work through that if you really want to crouch while riding, but you have to work at it.
2. Second biggie: neck position. Sitting more upright gives a larger field of view with less neck motion. So you will have to adjust how you scan your surroundings. And you will have more neck strain. Again, not a big deal if you learned to ride this way, if you are very young or doing short rides. But will take a bit of work and muscle adapting if you are new to riding this way. If you are doing a lot of long distant rides I wouldnt recommend a sports bike, but neither the Enertia nor the Empulse are doing long distance touring at this time :)
3. Less important is balance and some muscle use. You, as an experienced rider will likely adapt to these changes quickly. Leaning forward you do feel more in touch with your bike...your balance is more forward, you will be using more muscles as you move more with your bike instead of riding it as a passenger (if that makes sense).
I ride 365 days a year, in snow and ice and rain and whatnot. So my ride is mostly a transportation...dont get me wrong, I have hella fun on my bikes and I do lots of non commute, non errand rides (heading for 100 mile trip right after this post to get a beer and buffalo burger at a tavern up off the turquoise trail half way to Santa Fe...beautiful ride)...and I will go visit my daughter 500 miles away from time to time on my bike...so that is usually a 1000 miles over a 3 day weekend...so comfort trumps crouching for me.** Plus I go scooter camping...hard to carry a tent, sleeping bag and 3 days of supplies on a sports bike (hard on a scooter too, but doable).
But I have friends with sports bikes and I do see the allure if you aren't riding far or in weather...they are fun and fast.
I say go for the Empulse...ride it and have fun...and maybe just adjust the handlebars if you need or want to.
Gavin
**comfort trumps crouching for me, but not enough to go goldwing...I admire those people for being out riding...but I think they are too heavy and big and cushy...the bikes too :). I like to feel the road, the bumps, the twists...maybe in 20 years when I hit 70 I'll think about getting an electric goldwing style bike.
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Gavin Quote:
"" Leaning forward you do feel more in touch with your bike...your balance is more forward, you will be using more muscles as you move more with your bike instead of riding it as a passenger (if that makes sense).""
Yes, this is what I was thinking. Another friend said it's more like ---not COUNTER leaning, as opposed to just matching the bikes natural lean angles.
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I think 1lesscar is more concerned with how he will be seen on this bike, and I can kinda see where he is coming from. It reminds me of how i felt when Honda added a banana seat to the F4i and it somehow became less of a sport bike (I owned one at the time). I know that sounds lame but at the time I was more concerned with what others thought about my car and bike. So I can relate, but that was 8 years ago.
That said, I really dont think there is a need to worry about the Empulse, this bike is going to the iconic poster child for the sport electric bike. Sure, some people may give you a hard time, most of em wont even have a motorcycle license but that wont stop em. The most critical of people tend to be posers and dont know the first thing about motorcycles let alone how to operate a clutch. For some folks, going as fast as possible in a straight line while making as much noise as possible is a measure of their "manliness", natural selection has a way of dealing with em. Image is not everything, but I dont think you will have to worry about the Empulse cramping your style.
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I don't know about you guys, but when I was riding my ducati monster, I never felt the need for clipons, and nobody ever mistook the bike for something less than a 'serious' machine:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2006models/2006-Ducati-Monster-S2RDarka.jpg (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2006models/2006-Ducati-Monster-S2RDarka.jpg)
But then again, to each their own. That's why Brammo's going to offer the clipons as an option.
eric aka webman
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I just want the empulse to be more like a street legal empulse rr. I ride a street legal race bike as my daily ride. No problems here. :-*