Brammo Owners Forum
General => Welcome Forum => Topic started by: SamM on May 26, 2010, 12:52:15 PM
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Hello everyone! This is my first post on this site. My name is Sam and I've been a motorcyclist since I was 7 years old. I'll soon be 47. That's a lot of miles on bikes.
I'm seriously considering the purchase of a Brammo Inertia motorcycle. My plan is to just use the motorcycle for my 38 mile per day commute. This would save the daily wear and tear on my other motorcycles and I could use them exclusively for trips and weekend riding. I work at a large water utility company and will be able to charge the Interia at work. No problem, I've already asked. The 15 year payback has me more than a little concerned but that's only if gas prices stay as they are now. There is one thought I have, how would I get to work if the gas supply suddenly dried up? The Interia would answer that problem. Sam still goes to work! My family and I are building a new GREEN home. This motorcycle falls right in line with what we have going on.
A saleman from Brammo is wanting to put me in contact with Best Buy to facilitate the purchase. However, I do have a few reservations. I'm hoping you guys can help me out a little. I've looked around both the Brammo site and here but I still have a few questions. I apologize if I have overlooked these topics on this site.
Here goes:
1.) Can I ride the Interia in cold rainy weather? Are the batteries and motor waterproof?
2.) Can the batteries be upgraded as the technology improves? I'm thinking more range.
3.) Does the Interia use a proprietary battery pack or one standard to the industry? Is there a standard?
4.) Will the batteries be interchangeable from the Inertia to the next model or specific to each model?
5.) Can I buy replacement batteries?
6.) Will my insurance cover the batteries, if something goes wrong?
Thanks for any help!
SamM
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1.) Can I ride the Interia Enertia in cold rainy weather? Are the batteries and motor waterproof?
Yes, the motor, motor controller, batteries etc. are all water-resistant --- Don't submerge the bike... but if that were the case, you'd have bigger problems.
2.) Can the batteries be upgraded as the technology improves? I'm thinking more range.
The batteries are modular, and I think they've mentioned a couple times that the bike is "battery agnostic." So "yes."
3.) Does the Interia Enertia use a proprietary battery pack or one standard to the industry? Is there a standard?
I think the batteries currently come from Valence, but the frame is constructed so that the bike, as noted above, is battery agnostic. As far as I know, there is not an "industry standard."
4.) Will the batteries be interchangeable from the Interia Enertia to the next model or specific to each model?
I don't know the answer to this one.
5.) Can I buy replacement batteries?
Probably... but remember that presently, the batteries are the biggest cost of the bike. They have a pretty long life, so you probably won't have to worry about this for awhile.
6.) Will my insurance cover the batteries, if something goes wrong?
Hmmm, you should ask your insurance company, I guess. I have priced insurance for my Enertia from Progressive Insurance, and I don't recall anything on there about batteries.
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Brammofan,
Oops, hadn't notice that I spelled the name of the motorcycle incorrectly several times! I was actually closer the first time with Inertia. Don't know where I came up with the misplaced t. Bad typing! ::)
Wow, I'm not sure that water resistant helps me much, as I ride day in and day out, everyday rain or shine. Waterproof would be much better. I have no plans to use it as a submarine but if you ride with me you're going to get wet. There is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing. With it not being waterproof, I'm not sure whether it would be a wise purchase, for me and my use.
Myself, I tend to keep things for a long time and look more at the long term value as opposed to short term. Having an 8k lawn ornament in 5 or 6 years that I can't do anything with, does not appeal to me. If the batteries can't be replaced then it would be a deal breaker, for me. Right now, I have a 13+k KTM 950 Adventure lawn ornament that I can't sell sitting in my shop. I surely don't need another.
Since the batteries are an intregal part of the drive system and a large portion of the cost of the bike, they should be covered. I would need to have some sort of assurance that a short (apparently in wet weather) of the drive system would not take the bike completely out. If so, what would I be looking at cost wise for a replacement drive. If the batteries were 5k or more and not covered, that would definiately be a major deal breaker. Perhaps there is an extended warranty to cover the batteries.
Sorry for the questions! I suppose I'm even more skeptical now! Looks like I'll need to call my insurance company and Brammo directly. The bike is very cool though. I'm trying very hard to justify one of these. It might be a matter of waiting for better technology.
Thanks for your help and congrats on the free bike!
SamM
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I'm not doing a good job of describing the bike's water-proofiness. Thousands of miles have been logged on this bike in testing and real world use. (Look up the references to the ShockingBarack tour, the first few days of which were in driving rain.) This bike is as waterproof as you'll ever need it to be. If you rode an I.C.E. bike through water deep enough to get sucked into the carbs, you'd be looking at, at least, an engine rebuild.
When I said water resistant vs. water proof, it was probably the lawyer in me talking. To me, a waterproof watch is one that you can go scuba diving with, and a water-resistant watch is one that you can wear in the rain and maybe even go swimming in.
Okay, I'm talking out of my butt, now. Can I tag someone on the other side of the ropes to rescue me? Brian? Adrian?
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Here is an Enertia being water tested at the Brammo test facilty here in southern Oregon. As you can see the bike is designed to cope with rain and heavy surface water.
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Brammofan,
It's looking good! Adrian has emailed me back already and verified that the bike is indeed waterproof and he has the pictures to prove it. He has also answered all of my questions and I am liking what I am reading. The batteries are off the shelf units that can be purchased and the price isn't as bad as I thought.
SamM
(http://brammoforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=161.0;attach=56;image)
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Welcome to the forum. Keep asking questions if you have them.
I did a lot of research before buying and I am really glad I did buy one.
I have experience riding the Enertia in the pouring rain and I had no trouble at all.
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Hey, Sam..
I can tell you that I ride my bike, rain or shine. Living in Portland, Oregon, you have to put up with the rain for all you do in life. Its really good in the rain with the normal problems.. and no power band to kick in and make the rear-end go fishy.
Riding in the cold weather didnt give me any problems that I noticed.
I inquired about buying extra batteries and was told that Brammo would have them available for me. Was also told that they have a ten year life. I dont think I will need any soon. By the time I need them, I will be buying a new and upgraded battery!
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If you want to get the opinion of someone that isnt an egg-head..... sorry boys.... but, just a motorcycle lover, ask away. I love my bike and highly recommend it as the perfect commuter bike.
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enertia-ette,
I am very excited about the Brammo Enertia. My problem is that I do not live in town. My large tract of land is located 18.9 miles from town in very rural West Virginia. No, I'm not a hillbilly. I'm a transplant. ;D My family is from here though. Anyway, we are currently building a new energy efficient GREEN home. In designing and building this new home, we (my wife and I) came to the conclusion that future energy costs would basically eat us out of our new home. We need to be more responsible and spend less on fossil fuels. As a result our home will be very efficient and we will not burn any fossil fuels. It is super-insulated, passive solar and will use a solar thermal system to heat water for radiant heat. No forced air heat or air-conditioning. Sorry, I got on a roll. ::)
Back to the bike. What type of riding do you use the Enertia for? Just commuting? What range do you get from a full charge? Will dirt or dust harm the bike? I live 1.1 miles off the paved road. Would that be a factor? If dust got inside the covers and onto the electrical components what would be the procedure to clean it without killing myself? Air? Any idea? I can see myself riding one of these! ;) I've recently thought about getting a smaller Kawasaki KLX250S ($4999) that gets around 80 mpg and I am currently building myself a diesel-powered 2008 KLR that will get over 125 mpg. The Enertia could be the better replacement for these motorcycles (and projects) as I already have a gas-powered 2008 KLR650 and I don't need 4 fueled motorcycles. I also have a 2005 KTM 950 Adventure. I will part out the Adventure in order to help pay for the Enertia. It's important to me NOT to have a payment, so I'll be paying cash for the Enertia.
Basically, I don't want to be left without a chair when the music stops on the gasoline economy, so to speak! This would be my first step to freedom from gasoline.
Thanks for any help!
SamM
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What type of riding do you use the Enertia for? Just commuting? What range do you get from a full charge? Will dirt or dust harm the bike?
My primary use is to commute to work, but I also look for other opportunities to ride for fun and to do errands. I do not doubt the research that Brammo has done on range. I know the range improves when the batteries are broken in based on my trial and error testing with a fixed route. There are many factors that go into range like rider weight, the terrain, wind speed and direction, well-maintained bike, tire pressure, coasting down hills, etc.
Part of my commute is on unpaved roads which is either packed dirt or a crushed stone/gravel. As a result, bike bike gets fairly dirty each day. I have not had a problem with any of the dust that I encounter. I have not tried to clean out the insides of the the bike. I use compressed air for cleaning the dust from desktop computers, however, I would ask Brammo tech support before I tried it on my Enertia.
I took my first step of freedom from gasoline with the Enertia.
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Thanks for the info Phantom! ;)
Sometimes in the evening, I'll meet up with my best friend and riding buddy. He just lives down the road from me. It's about 2 miles to his house. We'll make a loop around the area on the rural two-lane paved roads before it gets dark just to unwind from the day. It's probably 20 to 25 miles give or take. This isn't something that we do often, just once every two weeks or so. The wives are cool with it and we have some time to converse about things that men talk about. Sometimes we'll ride 19 miles into town and stop at Barnes & Noble to have a cup of coffee and to check out the latest issues of the cycle magazines. This is a great tension reliever and to just get away from the daily grind of life and demanding family life. We don't go far and we just take our time at a relaxed pace. I rather enjoy it and I see the Enertia as being perfect for this type of riding. Maybe even better than perfect. Without all the noise, fumes and no wasted time stopping at the gas station. Well for me anyway! My buddy now rides a 2007 Suzuki V-Strom and is a recent convert from a 2002 Ducati ST4s. ::) We both did the eurobike thing and I'm happy to have that situation behind me. My 2005.5 KTM 950 Adventure S was a real nightmare to own. The Enertia would be the polar opposite of the gasoline, labor and maintenance intensive KTM V-twin.
Honestly, the more I think about it the more I like the thought of an Enertia as my next motorcycle. I think I will start a fund and start saving for a new Brammo Enertia. There are currently 3 motorcycles sitting in my shop to part out. The KTM Adventure, a 2005 Yamaha TT-R125E that my daughter outgrew, and a 2006 Zongshen Sierra 200 dualsport. The parts should easily net me more than enough for the purchase of an Enertia. I also have quite a few Buell parts leftover from owning a couple of those bikes years ago. This may take me until next riding season but I think I can do it!
I just stuck $100 into my Enertia stash fund! ;D Hey, it's a start! ::)
SamM
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Forgot to mention that I used to weigh in at 235 lbs on a good day! Make that a bad day! :o
Been dieting for the past two weeks and so far I'm down to 205 as of this morning. I hate to say dieting. It's more of a life change. Wow, I feel better! I sit at a computer all day long and don't get in much physical activity most days. I've been using my Total Gym more lately. If it's good enough for Chuck Norris then it will work for me. My target weight is 145 to 150 lbs and this should help with the range, when and if I am able to get the Brammo. ;D
SamM
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No problem, I hope it helps your decision. I think a forum full of Enertia owners is a great resource for potential Enertia owners. We have asked many of the same questions that you have and had to weigh the decison of buying an Enertia or not.
Perhaps you could charge at the Barnes and Noble or somewhere close to it.
I also like riding at a relaxed pace some of the time. I take in the scenery with most of my senses and really enjoy the ride.
I hope you have good luck building your stash fund for the Enertia. If you ever get impatient, like me, you can get a two-year financing plan through Best Buy.
I go to a gym near where I work to stay in shape. The gym will make an appearance in video I am planning to post soon as I take my Enertia there. I am in a building muscle stage, so I don't plan on dropping my weight anytime soon. Good luck with the Total Gym. I bet the resistance training provides for a good workout.
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Phantom,
The next time I'm at Barnes & Noble, I'll check to see if they would let me recharge there. They seem to be very forward thinking, so it might be possible. They advertise GREEN products and may be willing to give me access to an outlet. Who knows maybe they'll let me roll the Enertia inside and plug in. It's sure to draw a crowd.
Today, I started 8 eBay auctions with various KTM and KLR parts. One of the guys that I work with recently bought my used Nolan N-Com BlueTooth helmet, so I have another $100 cash coming in for that. My total is up to $200 already. I could have $1000 by the end of the week. I may contact my bank tomorrow and see what they have to say. If I offer to advertise for them on the side of the bike they may be up for it.
Thanks again for all the good information Phantom!
SamM
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Re: charging at Barnes and Noble. Depending on the location of the store, just look around. During the Shocking Barack campaign, they found outlets everywhere: next to a story, in an alley, and check this out-- at the base of every tree on this one street, where they would plug in that year's Christmas lights. Outlets, I bet, are a lot like rats in Chicago. Huh? One of my co-workers, Duane, used to live in downtown Chicago and he saw a rat once. Then, he started seeing them everywhere, because he knew what to look for. He mentioned this to one of his friends while they were walking and the friend was doubtful... until Duane told him that he'd seen three just during their short conversation. He pointed one out to the friend and both of them counted at least a dozen before they got to their destination.
My point is, start looking for them, and the veil will be lifted.
I think the idea of contacting the bank to see if they will, in effect, sponsor you, is great. I, too, intend to find out if any local (or global) companies want me to -fan them up, in return for merchandise or discounts or whatever. Because a big part of my riding is going to be the continued evangelizing of the bike, I'm hopeful I'll find at least a couple of "sponsors."
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Jeremy, my friend and riding buddy from work brought up a great point. "What happens if it breaks? Is Brammo going to send a tech to West Virginia to fix my electric motorcycle or will I have to ship it back to Oregon? Have any of them been broken before? It's $500 to get it here if I buy it. What's a round trip to Oregon? $1000?
SamM
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I have no intentions of ever shipping it back and I am far from OR. If it is a mechanical part like brakes, a tire, throttle, chain/sprocket, and even motor, any good motorcycle shop should be able to help. I am guessing that if it is a computer software part, you might need to re-install software, or you get a replacement piece of computer hardware. I look it as a motorcycle with computer components.
The plan is to have support all around the USA via Best Buy/Geek Squad.
Brammo's dedication to customer support is the main reason I picked the Enertia over any other electric motorcycle solution.
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Oh, I'm not worried about tires, chains or any of the Enertias mechanical parts. I replace those all the time. My concern is the electronics. It sounds like Brammo plans to use Wi-Fi to diagnose and fix problems. My worry is bigger issues. I suppose they could talk me through it.
If I buy one will they train me to be the West Virginia Brammo tech? ;D I'd be up for that.
SamM
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Do you have an example of a bigger issue that you are worried about? I also agree that you could be walked thorough it remotely with Tech Support.
Right, they should have a Wi-Fi connection to help, but it the meantime, I know that data is logged and can be accessed (with help from Tech support) through a data port under the seat.
If I buy one will they train me to be the West Virginia Brammo tech? ;D I'd be up for that.
You never know. I imagine that an Enertia owner that Brammo knows could be a good resource if the owner has the desire and ability to help troubleshoot and repair problems in their local area. I'm sure there would be legal issues to resolve, but I think it is a good idea to at least consider. I think owners could benefit by learning more details about the Enertia.
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Yeah, I was just throwing the West Virginia tech thing out there. ;)
My concern would be a big issue like a bad controller, a battery issue or something like that.
SamM
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Worst case, you pack up the bad controller or bad battery and ship it out for analysis and/or replacement.
I think the tech idea might work. I know a guy who lives near me that is planning to open an EV dealership.
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Yeah, I was just throwing the West Virginia tech thing out there. ;)
My concern would be a big issue like a bad controller, a battery issue or something like that.
SamM
Sam,
Those items are covered under warranty, so it would be up to Brammo to find a way to get the repair work done. The bike is designed with the electronics as "FRUs" or Field Replaceable Units. If a component fails, the service tech (or maybe even you) just unplug it, unbolt it and then drop in the new component. We have people on the East Coast that can perform service work and we do support bikes out East. Also... we do 100% inspection, dyno test, and road test on every bike built in an effort to capture any faulty components long before they make it into the hands of customers (who in turn hold our reputation in their hands!). If you'd like more info on service, please contact Adrian at: astewart@brammo.com.
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BrammoBrian,
That's what I needed to hear but what about after the warranty runs out? If you have techs on the East Coast that would ease my mind. And I wouldn't have a problem with taking the bike a reasonable distance for repairs. Just as long as I'm not left out in the cold with nobody to repair my electric motorcycle. I wouldn't imagine that would be the case. Brammo seems to have everything covered. My friends are very concerned about the real possibility of me purchasing an Enertia. ;D My wife has given me the greenlight. I want the orange one. Afterall, I'm parting out my KTM 950 Adventure in order to buy the Enertia. It seems only fitting that it be orange too! I'm also considering selling the engine for my diesel bike project and parting out the rest of the bike to help finance the purchase.
Today, I called the local Best Buy to find out why they do not offer these bikes for sale here. They had no idea what I was talking about and never heard of Brammo. I wish they could just ship the bike here to Best Buy and I could avoid the $500 shipping charge. I suppose $7695 isn't a bad price, once I get the incentive money back. Honestly, I'm torn about it.
Adrian has emailed me and I owe him a reply!
Thanks!
SamM
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After reading this forum for the last couple of weeks, I thought of a new question, that hasn't been addressed. Is there any significant vibration at the bars of an e-bike? Given that there aren't any reciprocating parts, I would think that there would be considerably less vibration on an electric bike. As someone who has hands that don't respond very well to vibration, particularly high-frequency vibes, this is a significant question for me.
Thanks!
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I can answer that! The only vibrations I get from my bike are the good vibrations from the admirers I pass.
Okay, for real: No vibrations other than the potholes. Nothing that I can feel from the motor or chain.
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After reading this forum for the last couple of weeks, I thought of a new question, that hasn't been addressed. Is there any significant vibration at the bars of an e-bike? Given that there aren't any reciprocating parts, I would think that there would be considerably less vibration on an electric bike. As someone who has hands that don't respond very well to vibration, particularly high-frequency vibes, this is a significant question for me.
Thanks!
Webman,
We've got an engineering team member that has nerve damage in his hands from some really, really long distance bicycle rides (think months and months), but has no problems riding the Enertia. He really likes this "feature" of the bike...
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BrammoBrian,
I talked with Adrian today and also sent him an email. A potential problem that I hadn't really thought of suddenly came to mind as we were talking. You may be able to answer this one and he may ask you about it. I have no idea if he will, but since you are in product design you can probably answer this.
Back in 2003, I was diagnosed with both V-fib and V-tac. I have an Implantable Cardio Defibulator in my chest as a result. It doesn't cause me many problems but I am unable to go through metal detectors or have an MRI. Would the electrical field generated by the Enertia interfere with my ICD? Any idea? Adrian seemed to think that the Enertia is shielded from this and was tested and approved for use in Europe. Apparently, they have rather tough standards for that sort of thing.
Since I can't pass through metal detectors, I get padded down a lot at airports. Last year, I flew to Panama, Equador and then on to the Galapogos Islands. My friends loved it when the pretty girls at the airports would frisk me. ;) Being an old half-disabled guy has it's benefits! ;D Shhhh! My wife still doesn't know about it! ;)
Thanks for any help with this!
SamM
Santa Cruz island inhabitants
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1371/cimg2383e.jpg)
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Well, I just wanted to report back that I have called and talked with Boston Scientific about my use of the Brammo Enertia. They have cleared the bike as being safe for me to operate. The electric motor on the Enertia sits underneath the rider. This is the best location for it anyway and is perfect for me. The Boston Scientific technicians report that I would need to keep 24" of separation from that piece of equipment and the magnetic field that it produces. The batteries need to be at least 12" from my upper chest also. No problem with that!
I'm good to go! This is a rather odd situation and never really crossed my mind, until I was on the phone with Adrian. Most of the time I never think about the device. I live my life on my terms and it doesn't control me or my actions. It's funny, I sometimes go to the meetings with the other ICD patients and when I walk in with my motorcycle helmet and gear, all their jaws sort of drop. Of course, most of them are in their 70's or 80's and I'm 46.
SamM
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That is good news, Sam. I initially thought, "uh oh, here's something for the anti-EV groups to focus on." Stay healthy, brother.
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Thanks Brammofan! My problem is electrical, no real heart problems, so that's always a good deal! I was pushing maximum density there for awhile. So far, I've dropped 30lbs and I'm well on my way to getting back down to 155 to 160lbs. Where I want to be. Hovering around 200 now. That's going to help the range of my Enertia quite a bit.
You know it was really my responsibility to contact my people, rather than ask the tough questions of Brammo. Of course, my people always say that, "motorcycles are dangerous and you shouldn't ride them!" REALLY? ::) Boston Scientific knew what to ask me and they were very honest about all of it. Asking it of Brammo was unfair to them. I didn't think before acting on that one and I put Adrian on the spot. My bad! It just sort of occured to me when we were on the phone. My apologies to him!
There's an anti-EV group? ;)
Later,
Sam
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Webman,
We've got an engineering team member that has nerve damage in his hands from some really, really long distance bicycle rides (think months and months), but has no problems riding the Enertia. He really likes this "feature" of the bike...
Thanks a lot for your answer, Brian. This is exactly what I was talking about. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this lately, as my current beater '97 yamaha seca II puts my hands to sleep just riding on the freeway for 15 minutes. I think the smoothness of EV's is going to be a major selling point to riders like me who would like to keep on riding, as well as new riders. I'm actually really surprised I haven't heard more talk about the lack of vibration on an electric bike. Very good news, indeed!