Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Enertia Discussion => Brammo Enertia Mods => Topic started by: ColoBrammo on August 07, 2010, 01:24:23 PM
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Has anyone (esp engineering at Brammo???) considered an LED headlight for the Enertia?
I know these are more expensive, so I can understand why they would not be a stock item though it might be a worthwhile upgrade (like the leather seat) to offer.
Since the headlight is on all the time, I'm wondering if it might be a place to save a little power and perhaps eek out a bit more range- and look better to.
Any thoughts?
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Can't be done until the DOT (NHTSA) certifies an LED headlight. So far, that hasn't been done and I haven't heard of any progress in this area.
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Can't be done until the DOT (NHTSA) certifies an LED headlight. So far, that hasn't been done and I haven't heard of any progress in this area.
A couple models of cars have - presumably DOT-certified - LED headlights as stock (Audi R8 5.2) or options (2010+ Prius V). I wonder what the holdup for motorcycles is.
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Since the headlight is on all the time, I'm wondering if it might be a place to save a little power and perhaps eek out a bit more range- and look better to.
If by "eek out a bit more range" you mean get a few more feet of range, then yes. The headlight on the Brammo is around 55W I think. This means that if you left the headlight on for an hour you would consume about 55Wh of electricity. For comparison, a casual ride around town will typically consume 80Wh/mile. So basically having the headlight on for an hour is costing you less than a mile of range. Since most of us aren't spending an hour at a time on the Brammo without stopping to recharge, its not really buying a whole lot extra to change that to an LED.
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This is an old topic but I'm resurrecting it because of an article that just popped up on autobloggreen:
Brilliant! LED headlights can add 6 miles to an electric car's range (http://green.autoblog.com/2011/01/20/led-headlights-add-6-miles-electric-car-range/)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2011/01/lexus-ls600h.jpg)
Okay guys... let's debate this again. Or not.
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I suppose that it might make a bigger difference on cars since their are more lights, well at least two headlights and only one on most motorcycles. But I do like the idea of an LED for the Enertia Plus just for the sake of being another piece of energy saving technology. Just kind of goes with the whole concept better.
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I would opt for an LED headlight, given a choice.
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Nissan LEAF also uses standard LED headlamps.
From the OSRAM article:
An efficient LED headlamp system can extend vehicle range by nearly six miles (9.5 km). Even with conventional vehicles, a 28 watt LED system emits only 196 grams of carbon dioxide per 100 kilometers compared to 768 grams of carbon dioxide per 100 kilometers from conventional 110 watt H7 halogen bulbs.
Let's say Brammo used a 14W LED system instead of a 55W halogen.
At 35 mph, the Empulse 10.0 might last 140 miles, or 71 wh/mi. Saving 41W from the bulb might save 50W from the pack (before conversion losses), or a savings of 1.4 wh/mi (2% longer range).
At 70 mph, the Empulse 10.0 might last 70 miles, or 142 wh/mi. Saving 50W from the pack would save around 0.7 wh/mi (0.5% longer range).
You'll save more power by dropping your speed 0.5 mph than you will by converting from halogen to LED lighting.
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Also, the ABG article is running a very misleading headline.
Saving 78W from swapping halogen to LED is fine. Saving 6 miles of range (1.5 - 2.0 kwh) would require the headlights to be on for 20+ hours. In normal operation the LED lamps will save a very small amount of power.
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I would opt for an LED headlight, given a choice.
+1
I think LED lights are cool and represent a step in the right direction for lighting choices.
Disclaimer: I work for a company that makes equipment to make LED lighting solutions possible.
I agree with the math that it would represent virtually no range gains.
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The fuse for the headlight is bigger then the use for several other systems implying it uses more power. I'd like to do 2 things. Build an LED headlight myself. (who cares if its 100% legal or not) Also add a switch to disable it during the day. i want tail lights during the day, but the head light seems useless. Although I haven't been on one yet, maybe it does really help make you more visible.
if 4000watt hours - 40 miles then 100 watt hours = 1 mile. At 50 watts, in an hour you could gain an extra half mile. Doesn't seem like much, but its 1025% increase in range. When you drive 50,000 miles you didn't pay for over 500 miles. It all adds up.
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No appreciable gain in range.
You definitely want to keep it on during the daytime. I usually leave mine in the 'brights' position. The better they can see you, the better they can (hopefully) avoid hitting you.
That said, LED lights are cool.
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I don't know the legality of riding without a headlight during the day but I do know the manufacturers are required to have the headlight running. I wouldn't consider riding without the headlights on -- heck I used to run with them on in my car (before automated systems).
As an aside you can ride an Enertia without the headlight on...it looks like it only checks to see if the headlight is on when starting from a dead stop. Of course this would mean having to blip the headlight on every time you stop, but I guess if you're into saving a couple pennies a day. Then again, you'd save more money by going on an extreme diet, both from food costs and less energy required to accelerate.
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As an aside you can ride an Enertia without the headlight on...it looks like it only checks to see if the headlight is on when starting from a dead stop. Of course this would mean having to blip the headlight on every time you stop, but I guess if you're into saving a couple pennies a day.
You know, I suspected this, but had this deep-seated suspicion that I was damaging something, somewhere, by riding with the light off. Plus, I bet Brammo can see this when they examine your ride logs. Probably voids the warranty.
And yeah, save juice, increase your range:go on a diet. ;D
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I'm already under my BMI by 10 pounds, so I'm already making the bike more efficent. As for having your light on, is that a legal requierment or a bramo requierment? I generlay drive with lights on in my car when there is any cloudy rainy foggey etc conditions, but i dont see the benifit in bright sunlihgt. I really dotn think it increases visibility when it is bright out.
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As for having your light on, is that a legal requierment or a bramo requierment?
It depends on your state. Check it out here: http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/asp/legisltn/laws.asp (http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/asp/legisltn/laws.asp)
i dont see the benifit in bright sunlihgt. I really dotn think it increases visibility when it is bright out.
Ever drive through a shadow of a building or a tree? You're free to do your own research, but I feel pretty comfortable saying that it's likely there are many studies proving that the added visibility of DRLs or headlights make them worth having on all the time.
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i ride all my scooters with the high beams on in the day...in fact i have my larger scooter (5 front lights...2 low, 2 high and one smaller ?? light) set so all 5 lights are on with the high beam setting...
any extra visibility is a good thing on a scooter, motorcycle...
that said, i still drive like i'm invisible...cages will always try and kill you when you are on 2 wheels (or three :) )
g
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The primary danger of using your high beam as your daytime running light is that if it goes out you're much less likely to notice, which means you no longer have any backup should your low beam goes out at night. Sounds like a reasonable argument to me but easily low enough probability that it probably doesn't matter. I'm trying to remember how often I've ever had a headlight go on a motorcycle...I'm sure I must have had one or two in the past 17 years.
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i dont see the benefit in bright sunlight. I really don't think it increases visibility when it is bright out.
Ever drive through a shadow of a building or a tree? You're free to do your own research, but I feel pretty comfortable saying that it's likely there are many studies proving that the added visibility of DRLs or headlights make them worth having on all the time.
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I see the benefit of tail lights, but not sold on headlights...maybe for motorcycles its a bigger deal because of the left turn thing.
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that said, i still drive like i'm invisible...cages will always try and kill you when you are on 2 wheels (or three :) )
g
What do you mean by cages
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Cages = cars/trucks
Cagers - drivers of cars/trucks.
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I see the benefit of tail lights, but not sold on headlights...maybe for motorcycles its a bigger deal because of the left turn thing.
yep...major cause of death of motorcyclist is cars turning left in front of motorcycle...headlights help that...at least somewhat...
but a car turning left is just a nightmare situation...always means at least a major hospitalization...if not a funeral.
g
my big ride with every front light on in the daytime...
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6061/6082565143_cafa061300_z.jpg)
didn't know I was having a photo taken or i would have leaned harder :)
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same ride (just last weekend....mmmmm, fun except when we had down-pouring rain the second day with road flooding and lightning and I had a passenger too)
i need to think I'm being photographed on every corner so i lean more...this bike makes the twisties so easy that i really don't have to throw out a leg unless i want to show off...
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6185/6083105834_17dbf3a948_b.jpg)
g
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Is it still a bike if it has 3 wheels lol?
In response to original poster, I now see the relevance of having the headlight on all the time. I'll design my own LED light weather it "road legal" or not. Unfortunelty I'm not moving until December and wont be buying until spring.
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Speaking of headlights in general, I did some poking around (Brammo Owners Manual, google etc) and found out that the Enertia uses a H83140101 H4 12V 60/55W Halogen Bulb manufactured by Hella. (http://cat.hella.com/hella-nafta/jsp/search/advanced/Frameset_ButtonBar_Bottom.jsp?nologin=yes¤tObjectId=CA@USAData@PR@H83140101)
The specs of the bulb are:
part number H83140101
Materialtext BULB H4 12V 60/55W P43T
Catalogue Section Bulbs
Bulb Average Life [h] 175
Bulb Base P43t
Bulb Category Halogen
Bulb CP 130
Bulb Filament C-8
BulbLCL 1.12
Bulb Lumens 1650
Bulb MOL 3.62
Bulb Type T-4 3/4
Nominal Voltage [V] 12V
Wattage [W] 60/55W
Amperage [A] 5.3
Beam Pattern High/Low Beam
Technology Halogen
Bulb Industry Code H4
Bulb Type T-4 3/4
Brand Name Hella
Product Title H4 12V 60/55W Halogen Bulb
Replacement bulbs can be found at amazon.com for (as of 9/22/11) $3.31. (http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-HLA-H83140101-12V-Halogen-Bulb/dp/B000CO7NGI)
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Here's a simple and cool LED plug-n-play Mod. I should fit. I will try to do it.
http://www.kuryakyn.com/products/3964/phase-6-led-headlamp-passing-lamps (http://www.kuryakyn.com/products/3964/phase-6-led-headlamp-passing-lamps)
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Harley sells an LED headlight in their parts catalog and on their site. How can they sell these if they are not legal?
http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/led-lighting/led-lighting.html (http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/led-lighting/led-lighting.html)
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There are plenty of products for sale by legitimate vendors out there that are not legal to use on the street. They usually get away with it by insisting that you only use the item for "off road" or "track" use. I have high-powered fog lights on my car that are OEM products for my cars European brethren that had "off road use only" stickers all over the boxes. I also think that there is some equipment that cannot come as original equipment but could very well be legal when installed by the owner (think about the low speed impact laws that came into effect in the 70s. Those rubber bumprettes were mandatory equipment from the factory, but I highly doubt you'd be ticketed if you removed those hideous things in favor of a "euro" bumper or just removed those ugly rubber pads).
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I've got 32 led lights on my bicycle so obviously I feel the the more, the better.
It's just that sometimes it takes me longer to turn them all on and then all off than it does to get to where I'm going to on the bike. Each one has an individual on/off switch and no way to rig a master switch.
But I do get noticed, especially at night, when I actually feel safer because of the lights.
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In my quest to get more light onto my Empulse, I've found the VisionX Solstice Solo LED lamps that look really nice. They draw 0.75 amps and throw out 900 lumens, for about $100 on Amazon. Anybody have any experience with them?
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Were you going to use this as a headlight or as a running light? I'm wondering if you might be at risk for a ticket if you try to replace your headlight with something like this.
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My current thinking (subject to change) is that with the HID replacement bulb in the main headlight, I'm using 35W. The Solo's are 10W each, so if I use these as auxiliary lights, I'd total out at 55W, which is the draw of the OEM high beam. Should be OK.
I don't think I'll get stopped for them as running lights. I had 2 Hella FF50's with HID conversions on my BMW, always on, and never got stopped in 50K miles. Of course everything has to be aimed well. Blind a cop, go to jail. >:(