B40 fault B8 system fault

[Korbin Dallas]

I am starting a new topic so we can follow this. https://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=4235.0

Here is the link to my progress

[Korbin Dallas]

New link Part 1 disassembly

https://photos.app.goo.gl/S9ibfnEZdczwvGPXA

Part 2 The build

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7DpVHvPLXN73i2KC9

Part 3 the battery diagnostics and circuit boards

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EQMX3fsLjksmeYAW9

[KaFr]

Do you think that some water or moisture from the outside environment could have gotten into the module? It seems to me that there was a fairly high level of liquid at the bottom of the module. I suspect a poorly sealed communication connector, module cover screw holes, or gaps between the cover and module face, what do you think?

In one of the photos I saw a piece of red cable on the back of the sight glass at module number 5. Isn't there a diode at the end of it or is it an optical cable that signals the status of the module? When HadesOmega was investigating his B40 malfunction, a green light could be seen flashing through the sight glass on the front of the lower module. The upper module did not flash.
Each of the modules has two sight glasses. The ones on the back are not functional.

Watch his video at 12:25 and 12:52

[Korbin Dallas]

Yes I think water has seeped in somehow. not thru the plug in the front it has an o-ring looks to seal very well. also the six screws in the top of the case have o-rings around the mount holes. I suspect the bottom of the case which would be the top when mounted in the bike. I will be taking that apart next. as for the sight glasses I have taken pictures of all of them and I dont see any where that would indicate the green light flashing. I suspect it is on the underside of the circuit board and I will be able to see that once it is removed. the red item in the sight glass of the picture I took was a piece of the plastic scraper that I used to pry open the case. I too only saw one blinking green light but did not know there was 4 total sight glasses.

[Korbin Dallas]

new photos added

[EV promise]

Hi, I've looked at the latest photos and a sorry tale. What are we seeing? Failure of the heat sealing on some cells leading to the electrolyte running out and causing corrosion over time? The circuit board looks very clean , surprised any issues showed up. What are your thoughts on where next?

[Korbin Dallas]

I am surprised at what I see. I think not a water problem but maybe a heater failure causing the cells to over heat and leak? How do we know? not sure what the next step is. How do i know which cells failed?

[new-brammo-guy]

Do I read it correctly that the main faults were:
SYSTEM FAULT B8  : Battery Fault: Temperature Sensor Failure | SYSTEM FAULT B40  : BMS Back in Idle Mode | BATTERY TOO COLD  : Battery Fault: Battery is too cold to charge

Thus the only logged issues:
Module 5 PCBA Temperature (C) = -50C

and Battery Min. Temperature (C) = -40C (in "Cell Num" 19, which I think is Module 5 - see attached. It's odd that the Module 5 Cell Temp is good below, but not here)

Though in Module 5 the voltages look good (same as others):
Module 5 Cell 1 Voltage (V)   Module 5 Cell 2 Voltage (V)   Module 5 Cell 3 Voltage (V)   Module 5 Cell 4 Voltage (V)
4.125   4.151   4.112   4.130

And the Module 5 cell temps look good (same as others):
Module 5 Cell Temperature (C) = 19C

These change frequently in the data, which seems odd - why wouldn't they stay the same?
Battery Max. Temperature (C)   Battery Min. Temperature (C)   High Cell Num   Low Cell Num

[Korbin Dallas]

Yes those were the faults. but there were other faults in the logs the were odd. the one that got me was diagnostic cable connected when the speedo showed 45 mph and 5000 rpm on tach. The kickstand down fault could be a bad sensor and the speed not zero could be a bad sensor but the diagnostic cable connected at speed? Not likely. So I have the harness almost all way out and I am going to start running wires and see if we have a pushed back pin ,loose connection or broken wire. I agree about the sporadic temp reading. Ambient temp 32C all pcba at 25-27 except #5 is at -41 but the cell heater show volts and amps on all cells. If the pcba temp is -41 but the cell temp is around 27 on all cells does the heater come on?

[EV promise]

I think I would clean the plates, then using only perhaps 8 good cells in 2 rows reconnect them with the heaters and any temperature sensors.
Check the heaters for resistance first. If the temperature sensors can also be tested. Then use the battery monitor software to see if the faults have cleared in that module. Take it from there.

[new-brammo-guy]

Korbin, Could you please summarize where you see damage? Which modules and cells are showing damage (see attached for my guess of the module and cell numbers)?

[new-brammo-guy]

I don't know about the heaters and PCB temp, but below is some info on the updated firmware notes: http://www.e-motorraeder.eu/t218f52-Softwareupdate-Empulse-R.html

Do not allow allHeatersON for any version of BMU PCBA lower than rev
"All Heaters On" function, if all PCBAs in the modules are rev C or higher
o If mixed modules in a bike (PCBA rev B and PCBA rev D), do not do all heaters on
o bugfix: if a heater is bad in any of the modules, stop heating in all modules

[Korbin Dallas]

This is the #7 module from the lower battery and would be the aft end of the battery. As to the cell # there are 10 rows and 4 columns in this one module. I tried to take all the pictures from the same  orientation so the top of the picture would connect to module 6 if you were to reinstall it in the battery. Not sure how to count the cells I would guess by your drawing that the mess is in cells 26 & 27

[new-brammo-guy]

M7 Relative Humidity (%) = 90s in your data matches what you're seeing with cell damage in Module 7.

In terms of heater info in your data:
M7 Heater Voltage (V) = 14
M7 Heater Current (mA) = 16

Thus 14*.016 = 0.22 Watts

That doesn't seem like a lot of heat to me over the entire module. This post says the heaters are 35 Watts though I don't know if they're talking about each module or the entire pack: https://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=4146.msg28726#msg28726

[Korbin Dallas]

I wonder if the low amp heater is a function of the cell balancing and therefore not at issue? Not sure what rev pcba we have but the BMS firmware is 87.00.67 and the bms hardware is Rev 0 as per the data log