Author Topic: Empulse L2 max charging current  (Read 1575 times)

MichaelJ

  • Empulse Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
    • EV Envy
Empulse L2 max charging current
« on: May 05, 2014, 04:33:49 PM »
Re: North Central Washington high amperage L2 Charging Project

Quote
The high-amperage L2 (haL2) project is focused on placing Clipper Creek CS-90 (240V 72A) EVSE in our area of operations

Is the Empulse L2 charger compatible with this Clipper Creek model?  How much faster than the advertised 3.5 hours will this higher current allow it to charge from 0-100%?

--
Thanks,
Michael
2013 ICON Brammo EBoz Spec 32 (#6)
2012 Current Motor Super Scooter
2007 Suzuki Boulevard C50T

frodus

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
    • View Profile
Re: Empulse L2 max charging current
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 04:40:39 PM »
You're still limited to the 3kw on board charger.

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: Empulse L2 max charging current
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 07:05:12 PM »
What frodus said: this won't help the Empulse charge any faster.

J1772 is just a fancy extension cord. This is an extension cord which can supply more current, if the onboard charger can make use of it.

Typical J1772 can supply up to 240V and 32A, which can support up to a 7 kW onboard charger.

Only a few EVs have a higher-power charger that can make use of these 70A EVSEs:

- Rav4 EV 10 kW
- Model S 10 kW or 20 kW
- Mission R 10 kW
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/

MichaelJ

  • Empulse Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
    • EV Envy
Re: Empulse L2 max charging current
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2014, 07:48:16 PM »
Thank you both.  I'm starting to get a better understanding of the charging math.

The Empulse's spec sheet doesn't mention 3 kW, but maybe I should have divided the battery pack capacity (10.2 kWh) by the charging time (3.5 h) to yield 2.9 kW.  Is that the correct formula?

From the value 3 kW, how does one calculate the maximum current that the on-board charger would accept?  You're saying that the Clipper Creek, at 72 A, would not increase the speed of charging, so the on-board charger must have a limit below this.  Dividing 2.9 kW by the battery pack's capacity of 117.6 V yields 24 A.  Is that the correct formula for determining the maximum current draw of the charger?

If that's correct, then the high-amperage L2 is not going to make the Empulse charge faster but it will charge.

Has Brammo announced plans to increase the charging speed in the future?
2013 ICON Brammo EBoz Spec 32 (#6)
2012 Current Motor Super Scooter
2007 Suzuki Boulevard C50T

skuzzle

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 236
    • View Profile
Re: Empulse L2 max charging current
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 12:24:20 AM »
The Empulse's spec sheet doesn't mention 3 kW, but maybe I should have divided the battery pack capacity (10.2 kWh) by the charging time (3.5 h) to yield 2.9 kW.  Is that the correct formula?

I think it should be 9.3kwh, which is the nominal pack capacity.  The 3.5 hour time includes time to balance the cells, which happens at a lower draw.  It's 2 hours from 20% to 80%.  That would make it (9.3 * 60%) / 2 = 2.8 kw.

Has Brammo announced plans to increase the charging speed in the future?

I haven't heard anything, but I wouldn't be surprise to hear something in the future.  I know the race bikes use some form of fast charging.  I think a 6kw charger using regular L2 would be great.

What area of Washington are you in?  I was thinking of riding my Empulse up towards Whidbey Island from Portland this July.


MichaelJ

  • Empulse Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
    • EV Envy
Re: Empulse L2 max charging current
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 04:39:04 AM »
What area of Washington are you in?  I was thinking of riding my Empulse up towards Whidbey Island from Portland this July.

Near Redmond.  I can't say whether I'll have made my purchase by then, though.

Whidbey Island is a beautiful ride.  I'm sure you'll enjoy it.  Hopefully, you'll be able to include a visit to Deception Pass on the north end of the island.

If you're available to visit on September 28th, head up to Anacortes for the Oyster Run, Washington's largest motorcycle gathering, where thousands of bikers gather to have fun and show off their rides.  I imagine you'll get a lot of attention on an Empulse, assuming that people notice that you're the only one not making noise.
2013 ICON Brammo EBoz Spec 32 (#6)
2012 Current Motor Super Scooter
2007 Suzuki Boulevard C50T

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: Empulse L2 max charging current
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 06:57:15 AM »
Thank you both.  I'm starting to get a better understanding of the charging math.

The Empulse's spec sheet doesn't mention 3 kW, but maybe I should have divided the battery pack capacity (10.2 kWh) by the charging time (3.5 h) to yield 2.9 kW.  Is that the correct formula?

From the value 3 kW, how does one calculate the maximum current that the on-board charger would accept?  You're saying that the Clipper Creek, at 72 A, would not increase the speed of charging, so the on-board charger must have a limit below this.  Dividing 2.9 kW by the battery pack's capacity of 117.6 V yields 24 A.  Is that the correct formula for determining the maximum current draw of the charger?

That's the right idea for calculating the DC charge current.

The easiest way is to look at the spec sheet (PDF), which states that the maximum AC current input is 14A.

Chargers convert AC input to the appropriate DC current/voltage to charge the battery safely, so referring to current/voltage must specify whether AC or DC. They can either be installed onboard the bike or offboard. An offboard charger - like CHAdeMO 50 kW or Tesla's Supercharger 135 kW - is typically larger than an onboard charger (if any; onboard chargers are typically removed for racing), and it can pair with or bypass the onboard charger to charge the EV battery directly.

Lithium-ion chargers typically have two phases of operation: a bulk constant-current charge, where the charging power will rise as the battery pack voltage increases; and a terminating constant-voltage charge, where the charging power tapers off as the batteries near their maximum charge. The charge is terminated when the constant-voltage charging current drops below a certain value. Cells are usually balanced at the top once fully charged, essentially by moving charge from one cell bank to another until their top voltage measurements are even.

The Empulse is 28 cell banks in series. Each cell maxes at 4.2 volts, so 117.6 is the maximum charge voltage for the battery pack. The particular model of charger used by the Empulse maxes at 25A DC output, so at 0% charge the DC output power will be around 3.2 V/cell * 28 cells * 25A = 2.2 kW, and 4.2 V/cell * 28 cells * 25A = 2.9 kW when it switches to constant current mode.

The Powercharger 3000 is 95% efficient at 100% output, so its maximum AC power draw is 3.05 kW. The charger accepts any AC voltage from 85 to 275V AC; at 230V AC it will draw 13.3A from the EVSE. Depending on the length and size of the cable run out to the EVSE and whether the EVSE is fed with 208 or 240V AC, the EVSE output voltage can be as low as 190V. In this case full charge power would require 16A, so the charger will reduce power towards the top of the constant-current charge.

Likewise, if the included 120V EVSE is used, then the charger will draw the maximum 14A for a AC charge power of 1.7 kW. When the charger is limited by a lower AC voltage input then the "constant" current charge phase will probably not be constant, but slowly drop as the cells fill.

Quote
If that's correct, then the high-amperage L2 is not going to make the Empulse charge faster but it will charge.

Correct.

Quote
Has Brammo announced plans to increase the charging speed in the future?

Nope. Keep in mind that the charger and its large heatsink (95% efficient means 5% of 3.1 kW gets turned into heat, 150 watts is 50% more than a 100 watt incandescent bulb) are heavy, bulky, and cost somewhere around $600-800. Brammo could add one or more chargers in parallel - and I think they do for the Empulse RR race bikes - to charge at up to 28A AC, which would charge the Empulse's 9.3 kWh pack from 20% to 80% charge in 1 hour.

It would be neat to see an Empulse touring kit with a faster charger but Brammo has not announced any plans.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 06:59:58 AM by protomech »
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/