Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse => Topic started by: Virtually Yours on May 02, 2013, 04:50:51 AM
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I seem to remember reading a post from BrammoBrian in the thread "dealing with the clunk" where he wrote about "mastering the bike" so I thought I would start a thread about "Mastering the Empulse".
Now that I have over 2,000 miles on the bike I'm getting better at the "Brammo quirks" and becoming a better rider in general. So I thought that a new thread dedicated to this would be great for sharing tips and tricks on "Mastering the Empulse."
I knew going in that the Empulse was different. I have never owned a street bike before, the Empulse R is my first, so I can't compare it other bikes. However, I've had motorized stuff as a kid so I'm not totally void of how to ride.
One thing I'm working on as far as "Mastering the Empulse" is cornering. The bike handles great but I'm definitely not getting the most out of the bike. I'm not looking to drag a knee or an elbow for that matter but there's a turn around the corner from work that is literally a 90 degree bend. I'll speed up to it, then brake and down shift, then throttle through. I know, throttle control, throttle control, throttle control,... and that is all typical of riding in general but doing it on my electric bike makes it different.
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Have you taken one of the rider classes? It's really important to learn how to countersteer. If you push the handlebars a little in the direction you want to go, the bike will lean more. Practice a little.... It's a very flickable bike.
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I've heard good things about Keith Code's techniques - both from people who've read his books and/or taken his "California superbike school". I haven't read any of the books in the twist of the wrist series (instead I took the MSF basic and advanced(x2) rider courses and Reg Pridmore's CLASS(x3) classes), but I've seen some of his instructional videos and he goes into detail on not only good technique, but why it is important for survival and maximum enjoyment. The MSF classes were a little more basic, but very helpful for new and intermediate riders and Reg Pridmore was more about getting some high speed practice in a safe environment and trusting your bike, but Keith has some excellent demonstrations of the physics of riding and specific control techniques based on it.
From the Amazon reviews it appears that Twist of the Wrist 2 is the best for street riders (the first book was mentioned as being too race oriented and involved more pop-psychology than readers thought was appropriate).
You can search for Keith Code on Youtube and see some of his instructional videos (combined with a bit of 50's style film loop documentary footage of people being hyper-happy about learning the material). Ignore the marketing shtick (or treat it like the vintage goofy comic interludes that it is) and focus on the handling science and recommendations, then see if you want to read more in depth about it all. I found the "Cornering Bible" video both funny and informative: THE CORNERING BIBLE 弯道圣经 （中文字幕） 全 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyR2-gqamYE#) (you'll spend the first 3-4 minutes laughing at bad acting and corny biker anecdotes before it gets to the good stuff, then another hour of good technical demonstrations interspersed with further attempts at acting).
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That video is hilarious. And pretty informative, too. Definitely worth the hour to watch.
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One thing I'm working on as far as "Mastering the Empulse" is cornering. The bike handles great but I'm definitely not getting the most out of the bike. I'm not looking to drag a knee or an elbow for that matter but there's a turn around the corner from work that is literally a 90 degree bend. I'll speed up to it, then brake and down shift, then throttle through. I know, throttle control, throttle control, throttle control,... and that is all typical of riding in general but doing it on my electric bike makes it different.
First, thanks for starting this aptly named thread.
It might be helpful to know exactly what you've identified as different about electric as far as cornering technique is concerned...
In addition to throttle control (and the Empulse's torque requires that skill to be more finely grained than I'm used to on past bikes), and in addition to countersteering, which is both crucial and easy with the Empulse's longish bars), there's also the need to be super relaxed and truly trust the superb engineering that went into the Empulse's rock-solid frame, on-rails-geometry, spot-on center of gravity and sport tire selection.
For a 90 degree turn, I downshift in Sport into first gear and ease off the throttle to let regen smoothly pull me down to the speed I need to be, start on the outside of the curve and pick a delayed-apex line, totally relax (tissue paper can be pulled out from between my gloves and the grips, upper body is free to dance, head can swivel), then initiate with a light countersteer into the line and let the bike joyously do its thing. Assuming no oil or gravel, she always comes through. Like Brian said, she will reward smoothness. Just tune into the motor and you'll get a big hint of what this bike's about!
By my crude comparison: my R1200R, when thrown into a curve, would speak to me: "Ja Wohl, Vee can surely do for you this thing you've requested and are calculating to come out in one piece, mein freund." Whereas the Empulse says, "OK, fine. You SURE that's ALL you want me to do? Done. Next."
I've read that modern street tires are like race tires were but a few years ago. Certainly, unless you do something totally jerky/grabby and upset the bike, this bike will honor your smoothness and rarely come close to the friction limits in normal street driving, at least in my 4K of experience with her and about 1/2" of chicken strips on the rear tire. The only time I've had the rear slip was demonstrating hard acceleration in the entrance to a posh apartment building that was paved with smooth bricks, and that was just for an instant and wasn't even scary.
Relax, trust, and check out the great resources recommended above. Let your comfort zone intelligently and naturally expand at your pace. "See you on the other side of the curve", is what it's all about!
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Have you taken one of the rider classes?
Yes in order to get your motorcycle endorsement in Florida you must complete a basic rider course. I'm really good as far as the basics and get around pretty good...
I've heard good things about Keith Code's techniques
Great minds think alike. As a matter of fact I bought a few DVDs during the long wait for the bike and one of them was Twist of the Wrist 2. I know, throttle control, throttle control, throttle control,...
I thought that video was great. I also bought Jerry "Motorman" Palladino's Ride like a Pro and Surviving the Mean Streets 2. Surviving the Mean Streets 2 is a must have! I found this a great addition to Keith Code because Jerry offers riding techniques for the street that can save your life. He also offers an advanced riding school in several states. If you are not familiar with this guy check him out. https://www.ridelikeapro.com/ (https://www.ridelikeapro.com/)
First, thanks for starting this aptly named thread.
"See you on the other side of the curve", is what it's all about!
Your welcome! Ride Safe!
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Another area in which I need more mastery: missed shifts.
A few times over the last 4K miles, I've hit Neutral when I didn't mean to, going from 2nd to 3rd, usually when accelerating hard, as in doing the freeway 20 to 75 mph merge in heavy traffic.
I find recovery from such a goof to be more difficult on this bike than my gassers I've owned.
I think the reason is that, while pulling the clutch in and revving the motor to match speeds so I can get the gearbox to sync up without massive grinding, the super-free-wheeling motor is very much harder to control than a relatively slow revving ICE with its flywheel inertia.
A tiny flick of the wrist, and the tach pretty much goes from dead zero to instant peg, with all the green lights on and screaming “Fool!”. Kinda hard to match up a bunch of teeth when that “wheeeeeee!” thing happens.
I HAVE, a couple of times managed to rev very, very, carefully while putting a bit of pressure on the shift lever and have things snick in nicely.
But other times, it seemed that the safest thing to do was to throw on the right turn signal, pull onto the right shoulder, stop, and get the tranny into first and have another go at the let's-not-get-rear-ended game.
To solve my shortcoming, I'm also in the middle of determining whether or not power-shifting or using the clutch is the best method of avoiding unintended neutral. Unfortunately, I've found neutral both ways, but it seems that clutchless shifting may have the advantage.
My suspicion is that, in trying to finesse my shifts, I'm being too weak on the upshifts, and just need to slam things more decisively.
Anybody else want to share their experience? Shelina, after racing the TTX?
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I hardly ever use the clutch to shift up. Just a soft but determined upshift to the next gear while blipping the throttle off a tad bit to unload the gears. Works perfectly. I use it to shift down though. Just don't jam them super hard without letting off the throttle.
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It always seemed to me that a "speed-shifter" would be a good accessory (or the next model upgrade) on the Empulse. They are readily available for IC bikes and would seem to be the perfect solution for shifting between gears on the Empulse. Interrupting the power for a moment would allow fast shifting between gears without needing to use the clutch and would lessen the load on the transmission components when shifting quickly. On the Empulse it would likely work both up and down, due to the much lower rotating mass of the drive train, compared with most IC motorcycles.
Anyone who has issues with missing shifts might want to experiment with moving the gear lever slightly up or down (depending upon which shifts you are missing) so that your ankle will do a better job of fully engaging the next gear. Lowering the shift lever slightly will make it easier to upshift and raising the lever slightly will make it easier to downshift. I haven't investigated the Empulse's gear lever, but most IC motorcycles either have the lever mounted on a splined shaft (that allows the lever to be moved to a different position) and/or have a turnbuckle on the rod connecting the lever to the transmission that can be adjusted to vary the static location of the lever.
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The first three or for days I had the bike I was constantly getting neutral. Haven't missed a shift in the last 1700 miles, though.
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I always use the clutch. I've only missed third twice. When it happened I twisted the throttle and I was like oh shit but kept going and just got it in gear! I too am trying to master smooth shifting; not just up but down and coming to smooth stops. Of course this helps that the tranny is broken in. Also getting the bike to coast in gear is challening especially in sport mode. In South Florida everything is flat so to take advantage of the regen is challenging and requires you to be in a high gear until you almost ready to come to a complete stop.
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At this point I never use the clutch to shift up and only use it to downshift if I've waited too long and need to shift more than one gear down. The main reason I don't use it is that the transmission snicks so neatly into the next gear with so little resistance that I don't really see the point in using the clutch. I just apply gentle, but firm, pressure up - back off the throttle ever so slightly - and it's in the next gear with just a click. Downshifting is just as simple and clean except that occasionally it resists the gentle pressure if I've slowed too much in the higher gear and so then I use the clutch.
I guess my rule of thumb is that gentle pressure + a back off on the throttle should give a very neat and tidy shift. If it doesn't respond then I use the clutch. So far it responds to gentle pressure on 100.2% of upshifts and maybe 80% on downshifts.
OK, maybe the math is wrong on the upshifts. It's so 100% reliable plus it is so smooth that I've psychologically ret-conned the first few shifts that I did with the clutch on the new bike into "surely there wasn't a time when I actually bothered with the clutch there...?" ;)
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Oh, and I don't remember ever hitting neutral when trying to shift into a gear.
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I'm with Flar, up shifting clutch less is the most smooth thing ever. Once I switched to the method, my shifts where much smoother and faster than with a clutch. I have hit neutral doing it this way but just once.
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I'm a little late to this thread, but I didn't get my bike until yesterday... I haven't tried any clutchless up-shifts just yet. The main problem I have with up-shifts is from 1st to 2nd. It seems like 1-out-of-10 times I pull up, but the lever doesn't move. I suppose that I might not be fully disengaging the clutch, but I only seem to have problems from 1st to 2nd. My "hand" memory might also be trying to give some throttle while release the clutch (trying to unlearn that). Never had any problems with 2 to 3, no neutrals. Not sure what to do for downshifts. Currently I just let regen slow me; pull in the clutch; shift down; release the clutch without much effort to match motor speed (or whatever I need to match).
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Transmissions typically take about a thousand miles, or more, before they "break-in" and shift smoothly. The transmission on my Yamaha FZ1 was "notchy" for about 10,000 miles, before it finally smoothed out. (Switching to a slightly heavier weight oil and a different brand of oil, seemed to help, in that case.)
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I'm at about 900 miles on my personal bike and I can confirm that the transmission is feeling smoother. Plus the rider gets "broken-in" as well and instinctively learns how best to ride the bike.
Here's a quick video of a merge onto the freeway from 1st to 6th gear in Normal mode. Speed at the end of the merge lane was 80+mph, which should be sufficient to join safely with traffic no matter where you're riding...
http://youtu.be/1IbTz5Py2fM (http://youtu.be/1IbTz5Py2fM)
Hmmm... couldn't get the video to embed for some reason...
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It won't embed the short URL.
Shifting the Brammo Empulse R - Exit ramp downshift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi259Cpo4-c&feature=youtube_gdata_player#ws)
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Hmmm - also, I had to take the "s" out of the https. You learn something new every day.
Great video. Wish I could take a test ride somewhere close by, but I'm not sure the midwest is ready for the electric brammorevolution.
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Thanks for the videos Brian & BrammoFan. Please correct me if I'm wrong. It looked like on the exit you closed the throttle then did multiple down shifts by pulling the clutch, down shift, let out the clutch. Your throttle hand wasn't doing anything, just leaving it closed. That's what I've been doing, although not as fast. Is the sound that we hear the regen kicking in, and not really the clutch spinning up the motor due to the change in gear ratio?
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from his other uploads:
Brammo Empulse R vs. Suzuki GSXR 750 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-sRfrcpgzY#ws)
i think the best brammo empulse video ive seen this far, very compelling, beautiful scenery and acceptable (or better) driving :)
much better than most review videos. just stunning.
Brammo should consider buying it from you and make it an uncommented advertisment.
Did you know that gsx750s guy (which had to take out his earplugs after the ride, harhar :D ) or did you just randomly spot him and decided to follow him?
(sorry for capturing this thread. would post a comment on YT but dont have an account)
did i mention the quite perfectly adjusted camera? i love it.
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Thanks for the videos Brian & BrammoFan. Please correct me if I'm wrong. It looked like on the exit you closed the throttle then did multiple down shifts by pulling the clutch, down shift, let out the clutch. Your throttle hand wasn't doing anything, just leaving it closed. That's what I've been doing, although not as fast. Is the sound that we hear the regen kicking in, and not really the clutch spinning up the motor due to the change in gear ratio?
Correct! I do not "blip" the throttle on the downshifts. You can manage to make this work if you have really good timing, but I've found there to be no real benefit to it.
Trying to embed once more...
Shifting the Brammo Empulse R - Exit ramp downshift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi259Cpo4-c#ws)
Got it. Sweet!
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love that video of riding in the countryside at 100 mph...crazy
I assume the gsxr is a friend by the Icon jacket and Icon Stack helmet (same as mine).
Gavin
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love that video of riding in the countryside at 100 mph...crazy
I assume the gsxr is a friend by the Icon jacket and Icon Stack helmet (same as mine).
Gavin
Yes, whomever was riding that bike is crazy! The GSXR rider is a friend of his, I've heard. There was also a Yamaha R6 giving chase to the Empulse R.
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I dropped the video on reddit. You might mention it the next time you see your friend. :D
http://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1ei4rg/brammo_empulse_r_ridden_in_anger_chasing_a_gsxr/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1ei4rg/brammo_empulse_r_ridden_in_anger_chasing_a_gsxr/)
Commenters seem split between "woah there, stay in your lane!" and "seems like a normal everyday ride to me.."
I see the speedometer hit 100+ as advertised. Pretty quickly too.
What limits the Empulse's top speed? I would think a bike with 54 hp could hit 120+ with the right gearing, though extended 120 mph operation will certainly be detrimental to range.
Empulse R is geared currently for 7000 RPM in 6th gear at 120 mph, which is well past the power peak. Adjusting the final drive would reduce 0-60 acceleration, which certainly fits into the "no bueno" camp. Given that many reviewers have suggested fewer gears required for "standard" operation, could a wider ratio gear box have been selected? Or is a close ratio gearbox a better fit, more durable, etc etc?
PS the easy "whom" vs "who" test for this grammar-challenged person is to replace with "he" vs "him" and see what sounds best
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I dropped the video on reddit. You might mention it the next time you see your friend. :D
http://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1ei4rg/brammo_empulse_r_ridden_in_anger_chasing_a_gsxr/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1ei4rg/brammo_empulse_r_ridden_in_anger_chasing_a_gsxr/)
Commenters seem split between "woah there, stay in your lane!" and "seems like a normal everyday ride to me.."
I see the speedometer hit 100+ as advertised. Pretty quickly too.
What limits the Empulse's top speed? I would think a bike with 54 hp could hit 120+ with the right gearing, though extended 120 mph operation will certainly be detrimental to range.
Empulse R is geared currently for 7000 RPM in 6th gear at 120 mph, which is well past the power peak. Adjusting the final drive would reduce 0-60 acceleration, which certainly fits into the "no bueno" camp. Given that many reviewers have suggested fewer gears required for "standard" operation, could a wider ratio gear box have been selected? Or is a close ratio gearbox a better fit, more durable, etc etc?
PS the easy "whom" vs "who" test for this grammar-challenged person is to replace with "he" vs "him" and see what sounds best
My friend found the comments about his lack of riding skills amusing. I'll tell him to stay off the streets the next time I see him as he's obviously a danger to himself and others...
Regarding the gearing, the actual top speed with the current gearing is about 108 mph (next video? ;)). Yes, you could extend the gearing to achieve a higher top speed while sacrificing acceleration or asking the motor controller to work harder (deliver more current) at low speed to get launched. A wider ratio gearbox might be a good future improvement.
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Thanks for posting that video to reddit, proto. I upvoted you!
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My friend found the comments about his lack of riding skills amusing. I'll tell him to stay off the streets the next time I see him as he's obviously a danger to himself and others...
Bear in mind that /r/motorcycles/ has a share of internet badasses. I've never trained on a track; I would personally be uncomfortable riding that aggressively, particularly using all of the road as your friend does in a couple of spots - but visibility is generally good and your friend isn't a jerk to other road traffic. So.
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Regarding the gearing, the actual top speed with the current gearing is about 108 mph (next video? ;)). Yes, you could extend the gearing to achieve a higher top speed while sacrificing acceleration or asking the motor controller to work harder (deliver more current) at low speed to get launched. A wider ratio gearbox might be a good future improvement.
Looked like a fun ride, if only the roads where I live would be that quiet!
From looking at the video I think that the rider on that Empulse R would want a bit more power and a little more top speed. I am sure that the rider will make sure his experiences are understood by Brammo development ;)
Nasty cracks in the road on some of those corners by the way!
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Nice vid. Makes me want to move to Oregon.
I don't know WHO that Empulse rider could be... let's see... black and red bike, Rizoma bars, Rizoma turn signals, bar end mirrors (that need tightening!), daypack strapped on the back... just don't know that possibly could be... ???
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Got my update. Check
Change oil. Check
Inspect and lubricate chain. Check
Adjust suspension. Check
Watch the Empulse R/GSXR video a few times and learn from the Empluse Master. Check
Now time to get in the seat, ride hard and become a Empulse Master!
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Now time to get in the seat, ride hard and become a Empulse Master!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Now that sounds like a plan!
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Whoever this mystery rider is he must have done a lot of riding on a 200hp BMW the way he keeps picking the bike up to the fat part of the tire coming out of corners. My most powerful bike having been a 500lb '91 VFR750F with 95hp, it's a problem I never really had to work around accept in they rain once in a while.
Seems like I've met that GSX-R rider before. Hmmmm.
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Obi - Wan Kenobi Vs Darth Vader HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kpHK4YIwY4&feature=youtube_gdata_player#ws)
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Such a good line.