Brammo Owners Forum
General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Deadly Silent Ninja on July 04, 2012, 04:50:20 PM
-
I just saw the announcement at elmoto.net, Brutus http://www.brutusmotorcycle.com/ (http://www.brutusmotorcycle.com/) is now taking orders for 5 custom bikes. Prices start at $45K. It's a beautiful cruiser that can even be customized to look more cafe' racer(ish) with interesting specs. The price is waaaaaaaayyyyyy beyond anything I will ever be able to afford, but I thought it would be cool to let people here know about it.
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2012/01/brutus.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2012/06/brutus-cafe-628.jpg)
(http://www.instablogsimages.com/1/2011/10/10/green_brutus_electric_cruiser_etobx.jpg)
-
Only $45,000 and up. :o
-
On the specs page Brutus lists 4.5 - 20 kWh capacity .. and I recall on the elmoto forums he mentioned that he could install the largest "production" battery pack in a motorcycle.
In the sweet, innocent days of 2011 when a $14k Empulse 10.0 was surely just around the corner, I posted about a hypothetical "big battery" cruiser.
Here's what a hypothetical 20kwh well-integrated brammo might look like - pardon the hand-waving.
* larger chassis - think a touring bike. Much heavier pack -> increase frame weight, suspension weight, brake weight, weight weight weight.
* heavier / bigger pack - 10.0kwh pack is ~150 lbs, 20.0kwh pack is ~300 lbs. Figure total weight 650-750 lbs.
* suburban range +50%, highway range +75% - say 150 miles suburban, 85-110 miles highway (65-85 mph).
* 80% charge in 3 hours with a 6.6kw 220v/30a charger, 12+ hours with a 110v/15a charger.
* the kicker - $$$. Probably around $26k: $2k for the larger chassis, +$10k for the larger pack.
I don't know how much of a market there is for a $26k electric "touring" motorcycle that has a sub 100 mile freeway range. And if the market's small, prices go up further.
Emphasis added.
The Brutus bike looks really nicely done. He may be perfectly happy selling a bike every month or two - there's certainly a (small) market for handbuilt bikes.
-
The field for the super-expensive bikes is starting to fill in.
Lightning - $40k, 12 kWh, aero fairing, 100 freeway miles
Brutus - "starting at" $45k, 5-20 kWh, no fairing, 100+ freeway miles
Monotracer MTE-150 (http://peraves.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/all-electric-monotracer-mte-150-brochure/) - $104k, 20 kWh, full aero fairing, 180 freeway miles
-
there's certainly a (small) market for handbuilt bikes.
Exactly.
Anyone halfway talented can make a cool car for $100k, or bike for $30k. What takes engineering and finesse and savvy is making a $22,000 car or $11,000 bike... that then actually moves in volume. Thus, I'll claim the Nissan Leaf is a bigger step forward at $36,000 than the Tesla Roadster at >$100k... though I'll reserve judgement on the cheaper Model S for now.
That said, I don't reject Brutus. Anyone who's actually putting hardware on the road is someone that might just stumble onto something, like a more-durable routing or connecting method, or some failure mode we aren't aware of. I'm a bit disappointed Mission and MotoCzysz and BRD and Honda/Mugen are at least racing, but not selling some hand-built exotics that can at least rack up weekend miles and gather publicity. (I'll reserve judgement on the Saietta for now.)
Carlos
-
Brutus has been rocking out with a new bike recently, the Brutus V9.
Their site is in the process of being updated. Some old information. The specs are new.
http://brutusmotorcycle.com/specs.html (http://brutusmotorcycle.com/specs.html)
The bike is available with either an 18.8 kWh pack or a 33.7 kWh (!) pack.
Yeah, that's right. 30% more battery than a Nissan LEAF.
Common specs:
* 125 hp 9" DC motor (brushes)
* 115 mph top speed
* onboard iPad and sound system for music / engine noise emulation
18.8 kWh model:
* 784 pounds
* 165 miles city (114 Wh/mile)
* 125 miles highway (150 Wh/mile)
* $32490 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=565628856807677&id=194396447264255)
33.7 kWh model:
* 886 pounds
* 280 miles city (120 Wh/mile)
* 210 miles highway (160 Wh/mile)
* price TBA (special order, bring your piggybank)
-
That is a very heavy motorcycle! :o
-
Yes. It's a bagger, and it competes against similar heavy cruiser bikes.
A friend let me drive his VTX1800, which is about 800 pounds wet. Its 1800cc engine is larger than my car, my former gas bike, and my lawnmower combined!
Note that similar bikes in this category make rather less power (VTX1800 @ 85 hp).
From Motorcycle USA's (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/10/1144/Motorcycle-Article/2005-Performance-Cruiser-Comparo.aspx) cruiser comparison:
(http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/05PcHP.jpg)
-
200 miles highway and quick charging is the point where nobody cares about range anymore.
After 200 miles on a motorcycle I have to stop for a while to stretch and eat and hydrate. And gas up.
When 30 kWh batteries are affordable, that will be a beautiful day.
Gavin
-
That is a very heavy motorcycle! :o
I hope it has some sort of a motor assisted reverse.
-
My friend owns a Honda Valkyrie and he let me ride it once. It uses a hopped-up version of the Honda Gold Wing engine and is also a very large motorcycle. It was very smooth and had lots of power, but it was way too large for me to feel comfortable riding. I felt like I was about 7/10 the size of the rider that the bike was designed for. ;)
-
That's only 102 pounds for nearly 15kWh of additional battery. Is that really all they weigh? I thought that the battery was the heaviest part on these bikes.
Also, their highway figures are suspiciously close to their city figures. Is this an example of "when you get this heavy then the weight is the dominant factor in range at any speed" or are they playing fast and loose with the terms?
-
Good call, flar.
(33.7 kWh - 18.8 kWh) / 46 kg = 323 Wh/kg .. unlikely with shipping cells.
It's possible .. or even likely .. that the higher capacity bike is using a different chemistry. For example, energy cells, where the lower capacity bike is using power cells.
125 hp = 94 kW = 5C discharge. A strong energy-dense cell like the Panasonic NCR18650s will likely have lower discharge requirements. 94 kW / 33.7 kWh = 2.8C discharge.
Suppose the lower capacity bike is 170 Wh/kg. 170 Wh/kg / 18.8 kWh = 111 kg
33.7 kWh / (111 kg + 46 kg) = 215 Wh/kg .. probably reasonable for nice cells.
Regarding energy consumption.. it's possible that the highway consumption reported is the combined highway/city range. That would give the larger bike a 168 mile highway range, or 201 Wh/mile. High.
However, consider too that the bike is faired, and the rider sits quite a bit lower than on our 32" saddle height bikes. I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect very decent highway range.
-
The MonoTracer site states:
Energy Consumption @ 75 mph: 8kW
As a comparison of the Empulse to a fully enclosed aero machine, I found some level freeway yesterday and put the speedo on 75 mph. The power consumption was fluctuating between 9k W and 12 kW with most readings right around 10 kW.
Delta = 2 kW.
I would have thought that fully enclosing would have yielded a more dramatic improvement over the naked Empulse, almost completely upright rider, and side cases.
-
Remember that drag is proportional to both drag coefficient and area. Fairings that have a lower coefficient of drag but present a much larger cross-sectional area - as I assume the Monotracer does - will be a tradeoff.
9 to 12 kW power consumption at 75 mph yields a range of 120 Wh/mile to 160 Wh/mile.
9 kW / 75 mph = 120 Wh/mile
12 kW / 75 mph = 160 Wh/mile
If you assume the Empulse is able to draw 100% of its rated battery capacity under highway operation - unlikely, admittedly - then it is rated at 166 Wh/mile @ 70 mph.
9.3 kWh / 56 miles = 166 Wh/mile (alternatively: 166 Wh/mile * 70 mph = 11.6 kW)