Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse => Topic started by: JeffK on April 18, 2015, 07:00:06 AM
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Came at a squeaking stop last week, rear wheel bearings desintegrated.
Was it the salt from last winter? I don't know.
But at 10K (kilometres, 6 months) seems a bit early to me, on my other bikes the rear tyre is gone long before the bearing.
I was pretty convinced that it would be covered by my warranty, but the dealer refused, charged full amount and labour.
What is your opinion on this?
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You and me both.
I did not ask about the warranty since I didn't notice mine was bad until 2 weeks after the warrantee lapsed (13k miles), but I am pretty convinced there is something wrong with my wheel since the wheel is still not working correctly. The left side bearing keeps slipping out of the wheel, which is visible when on the bike because there is a gap between the cush drive and the wheel. My next step is asking for a schematic of the wheel to see if I am missing any spacers, but I am pretty sure I am not since they appear to be solid through the whole system - at least with the wheel off the bike.
FWIW, bearings should be covered under warranty since they are not a wear item. I've had them replaced on cars under warranty (and that was an autocross car running a good 1/4" toe), and I see no reason why it would be different for motorcycles.
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BMW considers all bearings (and a whole lot of other moving parts) to be "wear items" and not covered by their warranty. However, dealers have been able to convince them to replace bearings at times on a case-by-case basis. (Which appears to be related to how good a customer you have been in the past.) On my F650GS the steering bearings notched at 8K miles and after some discussion on my part, my dealer (after speaking with the BMWNA rep) replaced them for free. This was in spite of many other F650/800 owners with similar problems reporting that they were denied similar warranty service.
I think the question would be were the bearings installed correctly at the factory, were they properly greased when installed, was there a manufacturing error at the wheel hub or bearing retaining parts, etc.? Issues like these should be covered by the warranty. On the other hand, dropping the bike into a big mud hole or river (like some BMW riders do with their "adventure" bikes) would likely be a reason to deny wheel bearing claim. ::)
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Bearings are indeed considered normal wear items. However, I will raise this topic with the Head of Service on Monday and he will contact you directly JeffK. At the very least we will look into what happened and attempt to determine the underlying cause. Adrian at Brammo.
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10k is really too early for a bearing failure , normal bearing life is about 50-70k however life may vary with bike type and usage.
Big enduros like Africa Twin , Transalp used on paved road and at low speed (less than 130 kmh) will have a bearing life very long ( there are some AT with wheel bearing in good condition after more than 150k)
on the other side on sport bike where everithing is tuned for look and lightweight bearing can last way less if used at high speed (more then 250kmh) or on dirt road.
the worst thing for wheel bearing is the so called "Tole ondulee " , you can see a car entering a tole ondulee from 00:12 to 00:16 on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv1_WQMclA4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv1_WQMclA4)
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my rear wheel bearing is also broken, are there exploded view drawings , so I can fix it?
7000 km :(
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my rear wheel bearing is also broken, are there exploded view drawings , so I can fix it?
7000 km :(
I got a spare set from the Lagerboer.
2 x 6006-2RS SKF € 5,50 € 11,00
You do not really need a drawing, just common sense/experience.
Just take some pics of where the spacers go.
There are two cases reported (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2977.msg21870#msg21870) of incorrect installation of the spacer tube by dealers, both in US and EU, so if there are factory drawings, there might be room for improvement. :P
It is better to rely on common sense.
Your nickname suggests you know classic bikes... Bearing replacement on the Brammo will be not much different than with the Suzuki, even less parts, as there are no seals on the Brammo.
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my rear wheel bearing is also broken, are there exploded view drawings , so I can fix it?
7000 km :(
I got a spare set from the Lagerboer.
2 x 6006-2RS SKF € 5,50 € 11,00
You do not really need a drawing, just common sense/experience.
Just take some pics of where the spacers go.
There are two cases reported (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2977.msg21870#msg21870) of incorrect installation of the spacer tube by dealers, both in US and EU, so if there are factory drawings, there might be room for improvement. :P
It is better to rely on common sense.
Your nickname suggests you know classic bikes... Bearing replacement on the Brammo will be not much different than with the Suzuki, even less parts, as there are no seals on the Brammo.
Thanks ;)
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Being we're talking about bearings. Somehow I got this notion in my head that it would be possible and worth upgrading to ceramic bearings.
http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=OOOV (http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=OOOV)
EVs love low rolling resistance stuff and this seems to make sense to me. Combined with lighter wheels, how much range and performance would this increase and is it worth it?
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Being we're talking about bearings. Somehow I got this notion in my head that it would be possible and worth upgrading to ceramic bearings.
http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=OOOV (http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=OOOV)
EVs love low rolling resistance stuff and this seems to make sense to me. Combined with lighter wheels, how much range and performance would this increase and is it worth it?
Now that would be something I'm interested in. Anybody talked to Woodcraft yet they'very usually been pretty responsive about our bikes.
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Here are the videos I created on the topic:
Brammo Wheel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMZkgYUixYI#)
Fixed Brammo Wheel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBI6skrstGE#)
Good luck!
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Add me to the rear wheel bearing failures...
I started to hear noises from the back at 14.000 kilometres and thought is was the chain getting old.
But as I did some maintenance on the rear brake this morning (the salt corroded the front and rear brakes badly) I noticed a piece of metal sticking out where the bearing cover should be. This cover was pushed out completely and I think that I have a few bearing balls missing already!!
I filled it up with grease, removed the metal and will ride slowly to the dealer in Amsterdam on Tuesday.
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Well even though I took it real slow to the dealer, I did not make it there...
Halfway I heard a nasty noise and things started getting bumpy. I guess the remaining balls had escaped.
I came to a stop and called the dealer, they could not pick up the bike but I also have roadside assistance and they came within 10 minutes and replaced the broken bearing on the spot!
Great service!
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1669/24289341963_827d7f16d1_b.jpg)
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Now THAT's great service!
Nice rear stand too.
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Since the day my bearings failed (at 10K km)I always have an extra set at hand.
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I will be careful :-\
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how many bearings change? only the damaged or 3: 2 of the wheel and 1 of pinion.
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After my first rear bearing fail at 10K, I'm now at 23K and the the right bearing showed excessive play.
I noticed awkward behaviour when cornering, so I decided to check.
Time to change again.
Reading trough all the posts on bearing failure, their life span seems aprox. 10-15 K. (kilometres)
I'm getting quite handy with this repair :P took me not even 30 minutes.
how many bearings change? only the damaged or 3: 2 of the wheel and 1 of pinion.
For me it was the right bearing, disk side. Center bearing felt not quite right, so while at it, I might as well change that one too.
Sprocket carrier bearing still seems OK.
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I put over 40k miles on a BMW R1200R with zero issues concerning wheel bearings. Come to think of it, I have never had a problem with wheel bearings at all in 25 years of motorcycle riding.
JeffK, you wouldn't happen to have pissed off a gypsy or maybe an evil step-mother somewhere did you?
(http://www.amoeba.com/admin/uploads/blog/Charles/drag-me-to-hell-gypsy.jpeg)
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I've got 32K miles on an Empulse R and have had no wheel bearing issues. Is it possible that someone has installed these wheels with improper torque? Or... they're Italian wheels, yes? Maybe somebody made the bearings after lunch with too many glasses of vino? Or it COULD by witches.
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I've got 32K miles on an Empulse R and have had no wheel bearing issues. .
It might be the adverse conditions, snow, rain, salt, and the absence of seals.
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I put over 40k miles on a BMW R1200R with zero issues concerning wheel bearings. Come to think of it, I have never had a problem with wheel bearings at all in 25 years of motorcycle riding.
JeffK, you wouldn't happen to have pissed off a gypsy or maybe an evil step-mother somewhere did you?
That's why it surprised me, and brought up the issue.
I've done a million kilometres on my bikes and never experienced bearing issues before 100K.
But on the Brammo I am not the only one with worn bearings.
Me: @10K and 23K
Katacrak: 13K
KingCharles: 14K
GSX750ES: 7K
00049(AKA SopFu): 13K (miles)
And that's only the guys on this forum, I've talked to other owners who had the same issues (a lot of evil stepmothers/gipsies)
So if you did not replace them yet, get a spare set of bearings now.
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I do treat my Empulse far worse than my other bikes. My riding season is February to December...in Chicago. Salt, rain, road grime, etc. As long as there's not ice on the road (and I don't have any broken bones...), I'm riding.
For the record, I did go through two sets of bearings on my SV. One was my fault, for forgetting to install a spacer. The other was probably a defective bearing installed after the first set went.
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I've got 32K miles on an Empulse R and have had no wheel bearing issues.
Spoke too soon. At 35K miles, I just joined the club.
I rode the bike squeaking, grinding, shimmying, across town to a shop where they will be assessing if I messed up the wheel too. I should have called a tow truck, but was too bull-headed (i.e. stoopid).
Having the SKF number in this forum was very handy, though the shop can't get to it until next week.
With all these failures of a common brand-named bearing, does anyone want to guess why? Frequently applied high torque?
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If it was still moving under it's own power, you shouldn't have any issues with the wheel. Believe me, I've had the ball bearings fall out from the bearing races when I pulled the wheel off of my SV...and then went on to put another 20k on it.
Make sure they put the spacer in the same way they pulled it out. If your sprocket basket pops away from the wheel, you'll know that spacer is backwards.
Good luck!
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Got my bike today (fast turnaround).
The parts guy bypassed the SKF bearings and got Japanese Nachi 30X55X13 which he said were superior because they offered a rubber seal. The OEM bearings that failed were very rusty inside. I don't wash the bike with high-pressure.
$27.75 per bearing plus 1.5 hours of labor at $64 per half hour for a grand total of $252.36 with tax.
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I was told the same when my bearings were replaced, somehow the design of the rear wheel holds water and accelerates rust.
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If thats the case, im hoping the bone dry climate here in Denver will help the bearings stay healthy. As far as maintenance goes, I have yet to spend a dime on anything other than transmission oil replacements. Only have 9k miles on mine though.
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With all these failures of a common brand-named bearing, does anyone want to guess why? Frequently applied high torque?
I think it is the absence of a rubber seal (like other bikes) and the awkward step in the axle that gives the inner race of the new bearing some serious punches and causes the first damage.
There's a thread that shows how to smooth the axle a bit, making installation of the rear wheel a lot easier and saves the bearings.
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Aha, here it is:
Link to chamfering the axle (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=3182.msg23187#msg23187)
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My second set of bearings was installed today.
Again around 10k kilometres.
Dutch salt and rain are bad for Brammo bearings...
Let's see how long they will last in Milan (if I bring the bike as there aren't as many charging facilities in Italy as there are here in the Netherlands...)
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My second set of bearings was installed today.
Again around 10k kilometres.
Dutch salt and rain are bad for Brammo bearings...
Let's see how long they will last in Milan (if I bring the bike as there aren't as many charging facilities in Italy as there are here in the Netherlands...)
Did you grind away the step on the axle?
I think it will increase bearing life http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=3182.msg23187#msg23187 (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=3182.msg23187#msg23187)
My last set is still OK with 15K, I also use a dab of Superlube waterresistant grease occasionally on the outside of the bearings, as some sort of extra seal.
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Nope, I just went to the dealer immediately when I noticed the same behaviour as when the previous bearing went bad. I didn't want to be stranded on the side of the road again.
I don't have a garage and working on the bike in the rain isn't something I enjoy... And it was only 70 euro so it's not worth the trouble either.