Brammo Owners Forum
General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Brammofan on July 27, 2012, 12:21:47 PM
-
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2012/07/27/manufacturers/bmw/bmw-unveils-near-production-c-evolution-electric-scooter-prototype/ (http://blog.motorcycle.com/2012/07/27/manufacturers/bmw/bmw-unveils-near-production-c-evolution-electric-scooter-prototype/)
Still a prototype, but:
- The scooter is powered by a 14.8 hp continuous output electric motor (as measured by ECE R85 regulations) with a peak output of 46.9 hp. According to BMW, the C evolution has comparable 0-60 kph acceleration to 600cc internal combustion scooters. Top speed however is capped at 120 kph (74.56 mph).
- Power the scooter is an 8kWh battery using the same lithium-ion storage modules as used on BMW’s i3 electric car.
- According to BMW, the battery can be charged in about 3 hours through a standard household socket or charging station.
- The battery can also be charged using the same sockets used for charging electric cars, a feature BMW claims as a first for an electric two-wheeler.
- BMW claims a range of 100 km (62 miles) on a full charge, with an additional 10-20% regained from braking or drag torque.
Hurry up, Brammo and get that Empulse produced so that you can debunk the "first" that BMW is going to claim.
-
Zero has offered a J1772 inlet option since the 2011 bikes. The onboard charger is too small to make much use of the higher voltage, but terry @ offthegrid has integrated (well, sort of : ) a 4 charger configuration into the bike for a combined 4 kW charge.
Empulse, supposing it is released before the BMW scooter, will be the first production bike with a standard J1772 inlet.
-
Depending on the price this may be the nail in Vectrix' coffin.
With ABS is nice too.
Seems like the perfect commuter bike!
-
8 kWh vs 5.3 kWh
Much faster charging, much more power
BMW nameplate vs Vectrix
If it's not double Vectrix's price then Vectrix is in trouble. Vectrix is building 2010 electric bikes in 2012.
-
This scooter has no storage under the seat unlike most ICE scooters. There doesn't even seem to be a glove compartment due to the charging port. They need to add a top case to make it useful. The bike seems like a good commuter other than the storage issue. It will be interesting to see the price.
-
It looks like there is a storage cubby under the passenger seat.
(http://blog.motorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/072712-bmw-c-evolution-scooter-prototype-07.jpg)
And what appears to be a locking glove compartment.
(http://blog.motorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/072712-bmw-c-evolution-scooter-prototype-12.jpg)
-
Whoops, I missed the seat storage. Should have looked at the high res pictures :-[. Price doesn't look that bad if they hit it.
London, England - Here on the eve of the 2012 Summer Olympic games, BMW released official information about their upcoming electric scooter, dubbed the C evolution. Based on the E-Scooter concept unveiled last year, this new electric two-wheeler will hit U.S. showrooms this fall and meet a pricepoint between $9,000 and $10,000
Read more: BMW C evolution eScooter Revealed - Popular Mechanics
From http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/auto-blog/bmw-electric-scooter-revealed (http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/auto-blog/bmw-electric-scooter-revealed)
-
well the Vectrix is $12 to $14.000
With much lower specs.
If BMW get it on the market for $10.000 it could do very well indeed and end it for Vectrix.
-
That's a shockingly low price - even if that's a lower capacity battery. Let's see if they can meet it.
As an EV enthusiast, I'm hopeful. As a Brammo & Zero fan, well.. let's see if they can hit that pricing target first. This fall rapidly approaches.
-
If they are going to introduce the scooter to the U.S. this fall, it can't be a prototype. It typically takes BMW a long time to get new models to the U.S. My F650GS was manufactured in June 2008 and didn't arrive at my dealer's showroom until September. They must have the factory set up to produce the model now in order to get it here by the "fall". On the other hand, whoever wrote that report may have been thinking about the C600 Sport and C650 GT, the IC versions of the scooter. My dealer says that they are scheduled to be delivered this fall. They said that the e-scooter had no confirmed delivery date, although they had one deposit for it already (which was said with a laugh).
Here is a short blurb by Motor Cycle News about the scooter. I guess this is just a teaser and they plan to show the photos and provide more info in their magazine:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2012/July/jul2612-bmw-cvolution/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2012/July/jul2612-bmw-cvolution/)
It is my recollection that BMW purchased the rights to the Vectrix power train when they were developing a very early prototype of the scooter using their discontinued C1 scooter chassis and Vectrix was in bankruptcy and needed cash.
-
If they are going to introduce the scooter to the U.S. this fall, it can't be a prototype. It typically takes BMW a long time to get new models to the U.S. My F650GS was manufactured in June 2008 and didn't arrive at my dealer's showroom until September. They must have the factory set up to produce the model now in order to get it here by the "fall".
BMW's motorcycle production is done in batches- their single motorcycle operation is set up for a run of, say, tourers. After they've built up an inventory of that model, they switch it to another model. Meanwhile, that stock of tourers has to last months and months. Don't know if the scooter setup is similar, or if it's a separate system. Possibly even a contractor facility, given that scooters move in much higher volumes overall.
Carlos
-
On a Dutch site (groen7) they wrote that the electric version would be introduced in 2014!
-
That's a shockingly low price - even if that's a lower capacity battery. Let's see if they can meet it.
As an EV enthusiast, I'm hopeful. As a Brammo & Zero fan, well.. let's see if they can hit that pricing target first. This fall rapidly approaches.
PopularMechanics has retracted the pricing information. PM claims the scooter could come to the US as early as 2014.
An earlier version of this post incorrectly cited release dates and pricing information for the C evolution, which are not currently known. The author regrets the error.
-
Moin to the fellow fans out there!
Over here in zie liebevoll Germany, the (once a long time ago reputated) Spiegel magazine wrote an article about the BMW-Scooter:
http://www.spiegel.de/auto/fahrberichte/elektroroller-bmw-c-evolution-a-847193.html#ref=rss (http://www.spiegel.de/auto/fahrberichte/elektroroller-bmw-c-evolution-a-847193.html#ref=rss)
for those who speak german: lucky.
Else you might try google translate, as i only translated the main statements and the new ones:
So the author claims comparable or better power to the 600er Scooter series of BMW in terms of torque and accleration, but mentions stat the scooter will be limited at 120 km/h (~75 mph), which is almost nothing ;)
He further states that the comfort-level is really high, and the scooter is really silent, too, as it has a belt system comparable to the zero-bikes.
Weight is 256kg (512 metric pounds and 564 imperial or how they are called), range should not exceed 100 km (~60 miles).
The (nominal) capacity of the battery is 8 kwh, and the developers stated that this is enough and will not be raised further, as it is only intended for commuting to work. There are no further details of the chemistry besides "lithium-ion" [the public must not know thats a whole category!]
Now the new parts:
Why does BMW only release it in 2014? The article claims that it is completely road ready and he could propably want it.
But BMW says, its part of the concept "Neue Städtische Mobilität" (new urban mobility [yep, it sounds stupid in german too]), and this concept first wants to bring out an electric car, the i3, then the scooter written about here, and after that a sportscar [comparable to the tesla].
The author thinks that it will not be cheaper than the comparable ICE version (the 600er series), which are about 12000 euro.
-------------------------------------------
So what do i think about it?
Well, its crap. It looks like crap (too fat and to yellow), but then i never thought about getting a scooter anyway.
My neighbour thinks about getting one, but if he gets a ICE scooter for about 6000 (used) and the C series will
(BMW has no *real* interest in making electric vehicles - one of the main factors dominating the estimated worth of a car-manufacturing-company is the quality of the motor, and the ability to build a chassis around it. German manufactures, especially BMW really do have strong points there, but the motor of a EV-Bike would most probably be bought from another company (e.g. the same motors brammo has), as they can be bought for cheap and are about that effecient as a motor can get. Battery chemistry is not really a speciality of BMW too, so they will be bought too. So why should they bother? They would step down from a proud company building about the best engines in the world to ... someone who puts bought stuff into some nice box and labels it. Consider the thousands of ICE-specialised engineers working there - they and their combined knowledge would be instantaniously worthless.)
be (much) more expensive ... then he can drive alot, even if a gallon is about 6.5 euro over here (and honestly, too cheap. 10$ - 15$ would be appropriate.)
The only way to sell a lot of them is to price them about 12k to 15k, but then they will eat market share of the 600er, and BMW wouldnt like that :)
Well, germany wasnt the market for scooters anyway - we think (and were right with that) - that they are just incomparable ugly :)
The whole thing is kind of sad, EVs wont get their market share for a long time here if everyone would continue doing so. Thats why im getting a Empulse :)
Our gas is as dirty as yours, but our energy keeps getting greener, yesterday the "statistische Bundesamt" (Federal Statistical Office of Germany) brought out data showing that 25% of our electric energy so far this year was renewable! Compared to 21% the same time the year before, compared to 16% the year before ... it only keeps growing. Even the most expensive one, photovoltaiks, is estimated to be around 13.7 ct / kwh, while getting energy from energy providers is about 25 ct/kwh on average.
So getting more EV should really be a bigger idea in politics - every Euro not spent on Gas bought somewhere in Russia or Saudi-Arabia but produced with wind mills in your own land is a saved penny and will be worth quite much.
Well, thats the first post from me. Other lenghty ramblings to come :)
So long,
oml
-
Welcome oml, thank you for the translation. I look forward to more lengthy ramblings in the future : )
Regarding putting bought things into boxes, that's largely what the car companies do already. In house they do engine, frame and body panels.. and design, integration, final assembly, testing, etc. Most other components are farmed out to suppliers.
Bike companies maybe less so.
I think Zero and Brammo have both demonstrated that you can make unique and differentiating products even if you do not manufacture the motor, controller or cells.
-
I don't think BMW cares where their products are manufactured. As an example, their G650GS single is assembled by Aprilia in Italy, using a Rotax-designed motor that is built by Locin in China. All they really care about is their "roundel", doing things their way and making money from their customers.
-
Gas2 claims the C Evolution is in the process of road testing.
http://gas2.org/2012/08/01/bmw-electric-scooter-gets-road-tested/ (http://gas2.org/2012/08/01/bmw-electric-scooter-gets-road-tested/)
[L]ast week BMW put 5 fully-function C Evolution scooters out for a multi-week road test that ends August 12th.