Brammo Owners Forum
General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Richard230 on June 07, 2012, 10:07:41 AM
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Fully Charged has made a video reviewing various electric motorcycles, the Vectrix and the Zero S. You can see it here:
Electric Bikes | Fully Charged (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8xKw_ShvzM&list=UUzz4CoEgSgWNs9ZAvRMhW2A&index=1&feature=plcp#ws)
At the end of the show they say that they will have something really cool up their leather sleeves in Part 2 of the show. Could it be a review of the Empulse R? ;D
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A nice overview.
Notice they don't mention pricing for the Vectrix or the Zero ; )
Zero 0-60 mph is closer to 10s. 5s is obviously wrong. I'm assuming the Vectrix 0-60 in 6s is similarly optimistic.
I guess the "something really cool" would be an electric race bike - perhaps one of the Agni bikes? Maybe the Energica? I would be a little surprised if they were the first to come out with the Empulse review, Brammo isn't exactly prioritizing UK / Euro sales or marketing.
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And here is the promised follow up video:
Agility Saietta | Fully Charged (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi7EhYgHPX4#ws)
The Agility Saietta. A fast (0 to 60 in under 4 seconds), 100+ mile range bike. It looks pretty iconic (and it's got fairing too!)
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Well, The Agility Saietta is certainly an unusual design and would look great in an art museum. But for me, it needs to be able to carry luggage so that I can use it for something other than just riding around. It looks to me that the only place to carry luggage would be on the rider's back. Plus, the bike's representative spoke several times about using it for commuting and that just doesn't look like a commute vehicle to me, nor is it likely to be priced like something to be used for commuting. It looks like something Jay Leno needs to add to his collection.
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They claim to have an available side-pannier system.
Interesting to compare their specifications against the Empulse. Pricing is based its unveiling in Feb 2011; I think it's reasonable to be skeptical as they don't list it anywhere on their website.
Saietta R, £13,975 (incl VAT, comparable to $18k USD MSRP)
0-60 in 4s
Weight < 440 lbs
Peak motor power 67 kW, direct drive chain
9.77 kWh battery (nominal)
112 mile city range, 58 mile highway range
Saietta S, £9,975 (incl VAT, comparable to $13k USD MSRP)
0-60 in 5.5s
Weight < 330 lbs
Peak motor power 34 kW, direct drive chain
4.9 kWh battery (nominal)
58 mile city
Slightly higher city energy consumption than both the Empulse and the Enertia Plus respectively.
Pricing based on Honda UK and US pricing for CBR600RR, £8900 and $11540. UK pricing typically includes VAT and road registration, US pricing MSRP does not include taxes or registration.
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Thanks for this guys......
If it's there, looks like I'll be waving cheerio to the Empulse. Certainly easier and quicker for me to get one, if it's not a hoax.
I remember seeing it before but ignored it for some reason, I think it wasn't being produced. The price is much lower than the Empulse will work out at here in Holland.
Ugly though, really ugly! Also, having previously used and stopped using tank bags, I'm not convinced about how comfortable it'll be with it's 'fat' front end.
The acceleration is closer to what I was hoping for and there is a 2 seat version!
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After watching the fully charged episode, it definitely doesn't seem to be a hoax. It's unclear what the production schedule or pricing will look like - seems to be about where we've been with the Empulse up until a few months ago.
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I've sent off a request for a test ride and more info. Will post here.
Sort of reminds me of the Jaguar bike linked from here and the comments it provoked:
http://www.toxel.com/tech/2010/01/08/10-cool-and-unusual-motorcycles/ (http://www.toxel.com/tech/2010/01/08/10-cool-and-unusual-motorcycles/)
Amazing work but horrible and I'm sure unexpected zoophilic backfire that the comments did justice...Brilliant
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The spec that impressed me: 120Nm of torque, about twice that of the Empulse.
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You add a couple of laser cannons and anti-gravity device and I might get interested. If the thing is going to look like something out of a science fiction movie, I want all the specs, too. Otherwise, it's another toy. ;D
Seriously, it looks fast and the specs are good (the price is appealing for the specs), but I want to know more. It reminds me of Mr. Garrison's bike:
(http://www.teamal.com/entity/entity_pict.jpg)
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Arranging a test ride for mid July. £13995 on the road price. 3.5hrs plug in charge so has on board charger. 0-60 in 4secs single rider with range 100miles at between 75mph and 120mph. 2 seat option.
Lead time in UK/Europe 2-3 months from order to delivery. First production July. Am I going to wait for a less specced better looking Empulse....mmmm, no.
I'll see how the test ride goes first, though. Just shows, with emerging technology, you've gotta be quick on the draw!
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75-120 km/h I assume?
They claim (http://saietta.com/saietta_r.html) 58 miles @ 70 mph (112 km/h), 74 miles in a 50/50 mix of highway and city riding. I would bet to get 100 miles on the bike you would need to go no faster than 40 mph (64 km/h) .. 75-120 km/h seems ludicrous.
The Empulse specs look pretty comparable. Saietta is a little lighter but has much more power (67 kW vs 40 kW Empulse). It's a direct drive, which should make it a little more reliable and lower maintenance. There is a tradeoff between acceleration and speed. You'll note that the 4 second 0-60 specification has a Client transmission option tag by it, which probably means the customer bike was specially geared higher for acceleration and has a lower top speed. You could probably get your bike geared like that as well if super-highway speed is unimportant, but if you gear it for 100 mph like the Empulse then you're probably still looking at 5-6s 0-60.
Hope your test ride goes well, would love to see any impressions you have.
Fun with numbers: the Zero bike's motor is 42 Nm until power-limited. Saietta is 127 Nm. Zero weighs 520 lbs with a 180 lb rider, Saietta weighs 620 lbs with a 180 lb rider.
Zero does 0-60 in 10s, Saietta claims 4s. Saietta needs 250% the torque to weight ratio, generally speaking, to hit its performance target.. 127/42 * (520/620) = 2.54. So gearing should be very similar to Zero, if Saietta's motor has a lower maximum RPM than Zero then it will have a lower top speed.
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I'm curious what motor they're using.
This looks just like an Agni motor:
(http://saietta.com/images/intro/features_image1.png)
Saietta S is approximately half the power / torque of Saietta R, so it's likely that the R is using a dual stator or dual motor configuration.
An Agni 119R @ 96V / 400A should put out around 34 kW and 64 Nm, which is exactly what the Saietta S is rated at.
Cedric Lynch used to work for a company called .. well, Lynch Motor Company (now seems to be called Lees Motor Company (http://www.lmcltd.net/)?). They continue to make axial flux PM DC motors .. and in fact they say (http://www.lmcltd.net/index.php?page=motor-specifications) they have a new "new V-twin motor [which] will be available mid 2012". Very similar to the Agni motors .. not surprisingly.
Either way.. I'm guessing the S uses a single Agni/LMC motor, and the R uses a twin motor configuration. Racing reliability for those motors, particularly in a multi-motor configuration, has been poor.. but the Agni Zero bikes seem to have done okay.
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Thanks for the numbers Protomech. There's a member of their engineering department phoning me back this week. Small difference in customer service there!
Questions I should ask?
1) I will confirm 0-60 times/options/gearing
2) Charging configuration
3) Why their numbers don't stack up regarding range/speed.
The reason it is so ugly is the fat is battery. The big price difference is speed/range/battery but possibly motor. 50mile range 0-60 in 5.something for S 100mile 0-60 in 4secs for R.
Any and all questions to ask gratefully received. Test ride is where they are made and price is solid, which makes a change and I like.
Still ugly though.
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Maybe it looks better in person. Many times that is the case with weird-looking motorcycles.
I'll be looking forward to your riding impressions and any information you can glean from talking with the designers.
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I would ask for a maintenance schedule, and get pricing on the brushes (if it is in fact a brushed motor). There are honestly very few Zero bikes with high miles .. brush replacement interval in practice seems to be between 5-10k miles.
I would like to know the manufacturer of the battery, but you may not care : P Maybe ask about temperature range for the bike (charge/discharge/storage), but I'm sure it's okay.
If you feel ballsy, ask them about the reliability of the Agni motors and see what they're doing to keep the dual motor system working well. The racing community as a whole flocked to the Agni motors initially because of their awesome power to weight ratios .. but it turns out that the motors grenade on a regular basis when you crank up the voltage and current (as I suppose Agility is doing) to get those awesome power numbers. Zero runs the motors at a substantially lower voltage (55-60V) and lower current (~300A), which produces less power but seems to be pretty reliable.
And multiply those problems for dual motors. MotoCzysz used 3 Agnis for his initial IOM TT bike in 2008, and he never could get it to work correctly. He DNFed in the race after motor failure. I would hope Agility is doing something more clever with the Agnis, like a dual stator / single unit approach or something.
If there's one thing I've learned after riding the Zero for a while now it's that I can get used to ugly. The Zero is definitely not sexy like the Empulse concept (or the production version), but I love riding it.
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As the reality is a step closer it's time to edumacate myself betterer.
Axial Flux permanent magnet motors look to be, like most cool stuff, developed for the battlefield, but not as motors but alternators. Brushes? Surely these motors are brushless? Also, brushed won't have the 'user defineable' regen/torque curve will they?
Wrt battery, is the make important regarding where the metals were mined etc? Or is it a more functional reliability question?
I've asked the motor question already but not sure which questions will be 'commercially sensitive'.
If the performance is what I've been looking for re range speed, I honestly won't be too worried if it's a team of highly bred hamsters in there!
If the bike's ugly it won't make the rider look as bad! I'm really more worried about comfort with the tank bag esque thing interfering with the free movement of my big gut! Will ask if I can film(not the gut) and then will post.
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If the performance is what I've been looking for re range speed, I honestly won't be too worried if it's a team of highly bred hamsters in there!
Like this?
(http://www.eknori.de/_data/hamster-wheel-motorcycle-797970.jpg)
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(http://www.wingedmammal.com/action_photos_2002/hamster_wheel_art_car.jpg)
Some people won't let the hamsters have their fun...
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There is a certain resemblance!
No test ride yet but I was phoned back by the CEO today and had a 40 minute phonecall with him(the CEO).... Very impressive. They will work out if my commuting/riding profile works with the bike and will suggest mapping/gear options to maximise the bike for my profile!
I must admit I am sold on the bike. He came across as an enthusiast and I really don't feel as if that company will pull any nasty surprises. If they do, it won't be because of the CEO.
I am aware this is a Brammo forum so I won't bang on about it, I'll post this and the test ride impressions.
Protomech, I should never have doubted you - it is a brushed Agni motor. It is a unique Agni for Agility. I asked about reliability but he said they have a limited sample size but real bike testing has gone beyond most riders warranty period and they are confident well beyond that. The reason for the 1-2 year warranty is risk management at such low volume, nothing more(And I certainly believe him). They are hoping to extend with sales. The motor is single stator but a custom Agni, not available anywhere else. I asked about brushless motors but the price point is not right yet but it is possible in the future. Brush replacement will be around 12k miles and they are trying to nail the service cost low.
The whole bike will be upgradeable and the battery is modular monitored - there will be an upgrade program..........
I say again, there will be a battery upgrade program!! Well, I am sold even if nobody else is!
I double checked whether this was just a stunt and the practical and cost implications would in reality make upgrading unrealistic but again, I believed Mr Marazzi and it is a realistic and planned upgrade program. 1500 cycle until 80%
They claim 3* the energy density of the Tesla. They stick by the figures on the website - 58miles for highway @ 65mph not what was claimed with my first contact. They are confident of more but with a 30kt headwind and slight uphill gradient they don't want riders to be disappointed. There is an onboard upgradeable charger.
0-60 times are real but the gear choice limits top speed. 4s = 185kmph whereas 5.8 = 225kmph. There is a small torque flat spot very low down which they are trying to iron out before customers get the first bikes but otherwise it should be solid.
The tank bagness is not as big as it appears - I'll report back after the ride.
Range accepted it really does sound like the bike I'm after. Lead times as quoted. Certification will follow but until sales reach high volumes single vehicles will be tested and certificated.
;D
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Well, this is the off topic forum. We natter on about our Zeros here, I see no reason you can't do the same about the Agility :)
3x the energy density of the Tesla.. Roadster? That doesn't make sense, regardless of whether they're talking Wh/kg or Wh/L.
185 km/h is a very good top speed when paired with a 4 second 0-60 time. If the specs are accurate then this is significantly quicker than the Empulse with a similar top speed, or roughly as quick (to 60 mph) with a much higher top speed. I don't race on a track, so speeds in excess of 100 mph are useless for me.
58miles for highway @ 65mph is pretty good, comparable to the Empulse 56 miles @ 70 mph. Slightly more battery energy, slightly less weight, maybe the aerodynamics are poorer. A 30 knot headwind would drive highway range down to 30-35 miles .. but that's an extreme case.
Did he give details of the battery upgrade program? Is this something where you would bring the bike back in 2-3 years and upgrade to a newer technology battery? I wish Brammo would offer something like this. Zero has offered bits and pieces from time to time.. but for all the talk from and good intentions of the manufacturers, none have come through. I would want to see concrete details of the program in writing before I gave any weight to it.
Most motorcycles have a 1-2 year warranty, gas or electric. I would like to see manufacturers offer optional extended warranties, up to 8 years or so. Even if most users never took advantage of them, a low-cost manufacturer warranty would drive home the point that a well-designed electric powertrain needs very little.
Just MHO - they're claiming great numbers out of their custom Agni which has been a route of tears for so many people before them.
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Just MHO - they're claiming great numbers out of their custom Agni which has been a route of tears for so many people before them.
Noted Protomech. I did press him on it, as it was something you'd predicted but he reassured me with a) the testing they're doing b) the numbers they could get from the bike compared with the numbers they are getting and they are reducing the power to increase component life and c) to have an upgradeable system you've got to have confidence in that system in the first place. ie. the risk is with them.
I really like the upgradeable battery option. It was something I was concerned about as I've mentioned before. I had buried it, because I thought it wasn't available but now it is and I can feel the relief. I KNOW battery technology is going to change at a huge rate and with an upgradeable option I can move with the times. Psychologically this is a big deal for me. Truth is, I may never upgrade but it is the fact I can.
I also like the amount of tweaking/customising that is available - charger, power curves and regen options, all good.
Having an aerospace style monocoque structure that is formed in part by the battery itself also strikes me as a good idea. How they manage this and have the battery changeable I don't know but I also like a bit of techno magic, as long as it is not bs!
I'm holding off on the excitement until the test ride but it sounds like the right bike for me. I was told I was at the higher end of their demand curve with a possible 240km 24hr commute(40km each way with possible 3 trips per 24hrs). All averaging about 80kmph.
After doing a bit of reading I must say I'm surprised all this cutting edge technology is still using brushed motors! The fact is, brushless is the future and we're just 'accepting all the industry has at the moment'. I know, I know, speed controllers, power input etc but brushes are about as cutting edge as well, a brush!
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They will work out if my commuting/riding profile works with the bike and will suggest mapping/gear options to maximise the bike for my profile!
Sweet. I'd be fine with a direct-drive transmission, if it had adjustable ratios. I know I'll have "in-town only" days, and can usually plan longer trips well in advance. If I could re-gear for acceleration vs. top speed in a reasonable time, the issue of direct vs. multi-speed would pretty much go away for me.
This would be like what I have on my "single" speed bicycle. I use a chain tensioner, and kept the cassette. Thus, I can re-gear by stopping, getting off, and manually lifting the chain to a different cog.
The whole bike will be upgradeable and the battery is modular monitored - there will be an upgrade program..........
I say again, there will be a battery upgrade program!! Well, I am sold even if nobody else is!
I double checked whether this was just a stunt and the practical and cost implications would in reality make upgrading unrealistic but again, I believed Mr Marazzi and it is a realistic and planned upgrade program. 1500 cycle until 80%
They claim 3* the energy density of the Tesla.
Pretty sure they're using batteries in pouches then, not individual prismatics. The issue with upgrading, then, is the skilled labor needed in reassembling the pack without losing a cell or three.
The tank bagness is not as big as it appears - I'll report back after the ride.
Range accepted it really does sound like the bike I'm after. Lead times as quoted. Certification will follow but until sales reach high volumes single vehicles will be tested and certificated.
If the numbers and delivery dates work out, I can live with bagness and ugliness just fine.
Given these performance specs, yes, it sounds like they're hand-building for now, and thus probably losing money with each sale... the question is what volume they need to break even, and how far away is that volume going to come.
Carlos
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It definitely looks solid, but so did many other elmotos. I will wish you the best of luck and I hope you will report back (please?) to let us know how the bike performs.
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I hope you will report back
I will indeed.
I lived in California for a year not so long ago and we spent a good deal of our spare time in bars talking to locals.... and drinking. One thing I learned is that many bar-going Californians have the false impression that the UK is a very small Island where everybody knows everybody else. Whilst this may have been true of Ireland years ago it isn't now and the UK is home to 66 million people - more than California, Nevada, Florida and Oregon combined.
I know nobody on this forum thinks the UK is such a small place so why did I just write that slightly condescending sounding paragraph? Well, after speaking to the CEO of Agility for a while the other day there was something familiar about him so I did a google search and found out he was in the same Aero Engineering classes at London University and I remember the fella(he is Brazilian). I thought this was one hell of a coincidence. I have no other association with Agility but now I know we suffered the same lecturers I must admit to be rooting for him a little more than I would normally.
Interestingly(a little suspicious) though, the latest news is that I requested that I film the test ride and take along a CBR600 to directly compare performance and handling. I also asked about posting the results on forums. Whilst they were open to the performance test and filming they do not want me to disclose the results of any test before the bike has been test ridden by the main stream press. I would have thought all publicity is good publicity but apparently not. Rest assured I will let you know if there are any surprises.
I have high hopes, but most of us here have had high hopes for some time....
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Well, you can always hang onto the video and test numbers and report after the magazines get ahold of the bike..
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Whilst they were open to the performance test and filming they do not want me to disclose the results of any test before the bike has been test ridden by the main stream press. I would have thought all publicity is good publicity but apparently not. Rest assured I will let you know if there are any surprises.
I have high hopes, but most of us here have had high hopes for some time....
I'm not going to ask you to be any more or less hopeful, but the mainstream press request might be a previous agreement they made with a reporter for an "exclusive" to guarantee that the story is even picked up by the (or any) publication.
If someone else reports it before their publication does, it becomes an old story and not a "scoop." So, I think they would love for you to publish it after the mainstream press. That would count as "repercussion" of the story, which is a good thing for both the reporter and the company.
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Do you have a date for the test ride? If it is near Amsterdam I would like to come by and take a look also if that is possible.
(and bring my vectrix for performance comparisons LOL ;) )
Thanks
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I'm not going to ask you to be any more or less hopeful, but the mainstream press request might be a previous agreement they made with a reporter for an "exclusive" to guarantee that the story is even picked up by the (or any) publication.
If someone else reports it before their publication does, it becomes an old story and not a "scoop." So, I think they would love for you to publish it after the mainstream press. That would count as "repercussion" of the story, which is a good thing for both the reporter and the company.
Yes, google "embargo" together with publication or journalism or PR or whatever. You don't become a successful mass-market company by letting leaks and rumors and buzz and such slip out uncontrolled. Nor do successful magazines and sites and such stay successful by getting scooped.
Carlos
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Understood. I got an email explaining almost verbatim what you guys have just said - you are well informed!
I have no date for the test ride yet and I will have to sign a non-disclosure agreement. As soon as I have any information that I'm allowed to disclose I will(I have none I can't now either). I think the press releases should be later this month or early August. I'm hoping to become an early adopter/beta tester like some of the Enertia guys. We'll see - watch this space....
King Charles - no idea where my test ride will be but doubt it will be near Amsterdam. Most likely is somewhere near London which means a flight or ferry if you're still interested?
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Nod once for "did the acceleration make you mess your pants"..
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Another dual-agni concept bike has popped up just recently.
Engadget article
http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/08/roskva-electric-motorcycle/ (http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/08/roskva-electric-motorcycle/)
elmoto discussion
http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2417-Roskva-electric-motorcycle-revealed-in-Norway-with-carbon-fiber-chassis-and-clothes (http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2417-Roskva-electric-motorcycle-revealed-in-Norway-with-carbon-fiber-chassis-and-clothes)
I don't expect to see this hit production anytime soon, or for a sane price. Neat idea though.
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Another dual-agni concept bike has popped up just recently.
Engadget article
http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/08/roskva-electric-motorcycle/ (http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/08/roskva-electric-motorcycle/)
elmoto discussion
http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2417-Roskva-electric-motorcycle-revealed-in-Norway-with-carbon-fiber-chassis-and-clothes (http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2417-Roskva-electric-motorcycle-revealed-in-Norway-with-carbon-fiber-chassis-and-clothes)
I don't expect to see this hit production anytime soon, or for a sane price. Neat idea though.
The comments on the engadget's website are always--how can I put it nicely?--inspiring! ::)
Anyway, it's a cool race concept, but it doesn't seem too new. I didn't see anything about prices, so it's just another nice thing to look at and hope someone will eventually take the step to a new production bike like Brammo and Zero. Concepts are really cool, but I am itching to ride an elmoto on a daily basis.
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Any more news, machone?
It appears the Agility does use a LMC motor. See this blurb on LMC's news page (http://www.lmcltd.net/index.php?page=news-2):
Agility Global Ltd. is a vehicle design and manufacturing company specialising in zero-emissions transportation solutions and we at LMC are proud to be a part of this exciting new British urban sports bike. By developing a new motor with the Agility team we will be powering the Saietta into the future.
Agni Motors (which presently employs Cedric Lynch) has a brief history (http://www.agnimotors.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=66) of the Lynch motor, along with some details of the connection between Lynch Electric Motor Company (LEMCO) and LMC. of course, this is being presented from only one point of view.
In July 2002 the Danish parent company of LEMCO dismissed Cedric Lynch. An industrial tribunal ruled several months later that the dismissal was unfair and also ordered LEMCO to pay Cedric a large amount of money it owed him. On the same day LEMCO was put into liquidation heavily insolvent. Many of its assets had been transferred over the previous few months to L.M.C., a previously dormant company owned by the same parent company, which has since continued making motors in the UK.
Subsequently Cedric got together with his friend Arvind Rabadia, who together with his Brother Hasmuk Rabadia had been thinking of starting a business in India, and set up Agni Motors to make further-improved versions of Cedric's motors.
And in a 2009 BBC interview (http://www.bbc.co.uk/isleofman/content/articles/2009/06/15/electric_motor_feature.shtml):
Agni Motors CEO Arvind Rabadia: "[Cedric] is a quiet and unassuming man, not interested in money just his motors and people have taken advantage of him."
Cedric: "I’d been involved with another company that was manufacturing their own version of my motor. Their parent company dismissed me in 2002 when they had all the technology in their hands."
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Sorry for the delay in replying but I've been away from electronic contact, which was nice!
W.R.T. Agility, they requested and I gave them a VERY detailed profile of my most probable usage and of my daily commute. This included every set of lights, realistic speeds and other possible stops. They have built a simulation ride and are testing it now. I have not yet been contacted about the results but I will be organising a test ride soon(within the next month). The delay is in travel cost which has taken a hike due to the Olympics.
Will post if there's any 'real' news. All ebikes seem to be shy or slow with mainstream reviews.
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@machone, any news from Agility? I read that they are going for a 2 speed gearbox now.
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https://connect.innovateuk.org/web/energy-efficiency/articles/-/blogs/9319124
If they're just now getting funding to look at gearbox development .. Brammo had a working prototype in spring of 2011. So don't expect to see a working multi-gear Saietta for a couple of years.
Are the Saiettas in production now? The article gives that impression.
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There should be a working prototype with 2 gears in 6 months.
No info on production though.
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I hope they succeed. Making a robust 2 gear gearbox is really quite difficult, as Tesla discovered when they tried to put one in the Roadster.
“Last December, when the two-speed transmission designed by a previous supplier proved not to be durable, we announced we would modify our approach,” said JB Straubel, Chief Technology Officer of Tesla Motors. (http://jagadees.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/single-speed-gearbox-for-tesla-roadsters/)
They ended up with a single speed gear box, and modified the rest of the powertrain to achieve their range/speed goals.
Perhaps some new minds can think of new solutions.
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I hope they succeed. Making a robust 2 gear gearbox is really quite difficult, as Tesla discovered when they tried to put one in the Roadster.
“Last December, when the two-speed transmission designed by a previous supplier proved not to be durable, we announced we would modify our approach,” said JB Straubel, Chief Technology Officer of Tesla Motors. (http://jagadees.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/single-speed-gearbox-for-tesla-roadsters/)
They ended up with a single speed gear box, and modified the rest of the powertrain to achieve their range/speed goals.
Perhaps some new minds can think of new solutions.
I am convinced that the problem with the Tesla was that the gear ratio difference between the two gears was just way too big. You basically had a motor that was spinning at really high rpm, and then having to quickly change in RPM to match a suddenly much slower rpm input shaft. If the motor had any torque going to it at all (pedal still down) then the torque would be transferred to the wheels, the axle shafts, the motor and transmission mounts, and to the transmission and motor themselves.
They were basically doing a hard shift equivalent of shifting from 2nd to 5th and 5th to 2nd over and over again. I'm not surprised that under power this led to bad things.
I'm hoping that having much narrower gear ratio differences on the Empulse will greatly reduce that problem.
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No news. I havn't had any time to get to the UK. I have been handed to another member of their team but so far nothing to report. I'll avoid complaining too much yet because I havn't made the effort to get over there. I have been told that I can order now and the lead time would be 3 months. This would be December delivery. I have to test ride first and I'd like to compare to a 600ice of some kind which are available for hire in London.
Agility is a much smaller operation than Brammo and they have been busy going round all the relevant motor shows in the UK selling. The demand is high according to them. As far as I know they are using the SVA process for licencing which I used for my kitcar - single vehicle approval is a piece by piece inspection of each unit produced. This 'bypasses' some of the crashworthiness and licencing requirements for mass produced vehicles. If this sounds a little heath robinson it isn't, but it does raise questions about export until they are officially producing a production bike instead of many individually UK approved units. The website needs updating and I still havn't seen any independant reviews.
I am smarting a little that I have had no results from the simulation of my commute - difficult to replicate in the UK I'm sure but I spent time producing the details and there's a faint wiff of 'stall tactic'/bs about it now, 6 weeks on. When I do the test ride I'll post here......It's not easy buying an electric bike, is it? How close to oil starvation do we have to get before EV production speeds up?
Firmly off topic but linked by battery power and technology, I bought a couple of Roomba floor vacuum and cleaning robots a few months ago. Excellent marketing, glossy brochures, no lead time, no false claims and no pre-order list. They work and have also gained me points with my fiance! Recommended.
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The website needs updating and I still havn't seen any independant reviews.
The Agility site (http://www.agilitymotors.com/) is updated with some more specifics. With Zero bringing out new models, Lightning selling their awesome machine and the Empulse almost ready to ship it feels like things are really starting to 'move'. Good
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I agree. I thought 2012 was going to shape up to be the real year of the elmoto. Brammo has failed to ship to individuals, even if Enertia Pluses are trickling out to HKPD. (We still have a bit left in the year, so maybe some Empulse Rs will get out there). Zero released the 2012 to significant success, but the model has been somewhat marred by technical glitches .. now solved, but.. KTM Freeride E is the first production electric motorcycle from a traditional manufacturer, but it was supposed to be a limited run of 100 bikes in 2012 and I've heard very little about it after the news flurry late 2011 / early 2012.
So. 2013? Hopefully we'll have both the Empulse and the Enertia Plus shipping in volume. The 2013 Zero lineup is significantly revamped, and I think will give Brammo good competition .. both in sales and on the track. Perhaps we'll see the KTM Freeride E shipping in volume .. and if sales figures are released, we'll have a feel for how much the lack of a traditional manufacture nameplate and dealer network has held Brammo and Zero back to date. BRD is supposed to ship sometime in 2013. On the one-off high-end, we may see some some Lightning and Brutus bike sales as well.
TTXGP should heat up a little - I think the Empulse TTX and the 2013 Zeros will be very competitive for the eSS award, and I think they will both set a "you must be this fast to race" bar. I don't think the 'roll your own approach' will remain viable for long.. but maybe we'll see some interesting new bikes based on their powertrains.
TTX75 may be dead .. VT is moving up to a higher class of competition, and Eli may do so as well. Then again .. nominal capacity for the S ZF8.5 should be 8.5 kWh * 3.7 V nominal / 4.2 V max = 7.49 kWh ..