Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse => Topic started by: aledbetter on February 03, 2013, 05:59:18 PM
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Has anyone made any changes to the suspension for setting it up or switched the current out for something else ?
I think the bike is set out the door for a rider that is about ~170 based on the sag, which seems fine around town. But when I tried the bike out on the twisties (hwy 9 in saratoga) I found the back brake and shifter like to drag with a bit of lean.
Any advices would be great, I have seen an ohlins part that replacement for the rear shock online but don't couldn't find much info.
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Considering how much you have invested in the Empulse R, my recommendation would be to find a suspension expert in your local area and pay him to set up the suspension for your weight and riding style, before you go out and start checking out the Ohlins catalog. These fully-adjustable suspensions can be really tough for the typical street rider to adjust properly and unless you get it right, you can have handling issues. But once you get the preload, compression damping and rebound damping dialed in you might be pleasantly surprised in the improvement to your bike's ride and handling.
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The R's suspension is supposed to be fully adjustable. I second having someone who knows what they are doing set the suspension up for you.
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Any recommendations in the Bay Area? At 250, I'm probably punishing the stock settings a bit...
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Here's my shocking experience:
I found the suspension way too firm for San Francisco's infamous potholes. I'm sure it can be dialed in satisfactorily for a racetrack or even for twisties on decent pavement. SF surfaces are, at best, third world quality. I backed the preload all the way off and opened up the valves to max and it didn't help.
I took it to a specialty suspension shop that came highly recommended: SuperPlush in SF. They agreed it was harsh, and couldn't get any information on being able to re-valve it successfully. Sachs suspension doesn't have a U.S. distributor. Online research in newsgroups (which called them "Sucks") showed that they are NOT rebuildable, although I'm not positive that that's the truth.
I ride every day in SF and decided it was worth, er, springing for the Ohlin rear shock.
I found out that the Ohlin in the TTX pics is NOT readily available: it's a frankenshock made up of pieces of different units, with Brammo racers talking to Ohlins who cobbled up something that was to their liking.
The good news: SuperPlush has a good relationship with Ohlin's folks and they agreed to make me a custom shock. That way I know I'll get the spring rate, valving, options, and rebuildability to suit me. It won't come cheap (quote coming soon), but to me, it's totally worth it, since I've had excellent aftermarket shocks (Wilbers) in the past and found the combination of vastly improved cornering AND abrupt-bump-soaking to be wonderful.
Last Friday, SuperPlush removed my OEM shock for careful measurements, and replaced it. Now that I know that plush is on the way, the stock shock is more and more unbearable on the rough stuff.
I'll keep you posted on the outcome.
http://www.superplushsuspension.com/index.htm (http://www.superplushsuspension.com/index.htm)
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There are several suspension companies located in the Bay Area. There is one in Mountain View and another one in San Jose, but I can't recall their names right not. I haven't heard of Super Plush, but I like their name.
I have bought five Ohlins rear shocks over the past 25 years, with varying results. I had one leak oil all over my garage floor as soon as I installed it. After it was rebuilt, it worked fine and is still on my daughter's 1986 VFR700FII, which has 90K miles on the clock. Another shock was delivered without any nitrogen pressure and worked very poorly (oddly, it was very harsh) until I discovered that it was defective and had it repaired (recharged with nitrogen) under the warranty. The other shocks (two on my previous BMW R-bikes and a set of dual shocks on my current Triumph) worked OK, but I found them all to be set up for a heaver rider than I am, with heavy compression and rebound damping - in spite of my request to back off on the race track tuning. But all of those shocks were off the shelf and I doubt much was done to adjust them to my needs, other than setting the preload before shipping them out.
Hopefully the direction that Shinysideup is going in will work out - but, like he says, it is not going to be cheap. I might mention that once a new rear shock is installed, it is likely that the fork will need some tuning before it will complement the new shock. This might require, changing spring pre-load, modifying the damping oil or damping stack washers, changing the entire spring, or just adjusting the location of the fork tubes in the triple clamps slightly. Once you change one thing on a motorcycle chassis, you have to start changing everything else. It can seem to be a never-ending process - especially if you are a perfectionist. ;)
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Wow, I bought a Penske through Traxxion Dynamics for my VFR, and other than coming with one or two clicks too much rebound it was perfect. Even came with a suspension dyno sheet of my shock.
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One of the suspension companies in the Bay Area that has been around for a while and seems to have a good reputation is Catalyst Reaction. They used to be in Mountain View, but have apparently relocated to San Carlos, CA.
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I think I might try getting the existing suspension tuned first at Catalyst.
If it still seems off I might just replace the foot controls with something that does not hang so close to the ground...
The drawback to having bikes with mostly small production has always been the lack of off the shelf upgrades and mods...
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I found out that the Ohlin in the TTX pics is NOT readily available: it's a frankenshock made up of pieces of different units, with Brammo racers talking to Ohlins who cobbled up something that was to their liking.
Just to clarify:
Every shock that Ohlins makes is highly configurable for a particular application and made up of pieces, so this is no different from any other shock. The hold-up is getting Ohlins to release an official part number for this particular shock configuration through their system. We are still waiting on this.
I do think you'll be better served working with an aftermarket suspension provider as the TTX shock for the Empulse TTX is designed for race use, so would be stiffer than the current production Sachs.
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Here's my shocking experience:
I found the suspension way too firm for San Francisco's infamous potholes. I'm sure it can be dialed in satisfactorily for a racetrack or even for twisties on decent pavement. SF surfaces are, at best, third world quality. I backed the preload all the way off and opened up the valves to max and it didn't help.
Shiny, I hope it didn't damp your spirits too much.
I also found the stock settings of the suspension to be a bit stiff, especially indeed for SF. My housemate who has far more experience than I helped me out with making some adjustments: left the preload pretty much the same (I weigh 160ish), but dialed back out everything else to nearly the softest they would go -- a half turn or so from the max as I recall.
With those adjustments it feels pretty stellar. I was expecting to have to continue fiddling with the setttings, but I'll probably just leave it as is. Caveat here: this is probably the nicest suspension I've ever had, so I may just not know any better.
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I weigh about 150 ish.
Could you take a pic of where the adjustments are on the sachs?
Also is there a height adjustment on the suspension too? I have a small inseam and would make it a bit more comfortable with a lower bike (without compromising suspension travel).
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I weigh about 150 ish.
Could you take a pic of where the adjustments are on the sachs?
Also is there a height adjustment on the suspension too? I have a small inseam and would make it a bit more comfortable with a lower bike (without compromising suspension travel).
I weigh 237 & 1/2 ish,,, dang ,,? Now I figure out my setup when my bike gets here???
(Hawaii)
ISN'T THERE AN APP FOR THAT????
C'mon Gavin!! You've got connections! You could get the ball rolling!!! :o
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Please excuse me if I'm being a pedant and everyone already knows this kind of stuff. I'm just trying to help.
I think I might try getting the existing suspension tuned first at Catalyst.
If it still seems off I might just replace the foot controls with something that does not hang so close to the ground...
The drawback to having bikes with mostly small production has always been the lack of off the shelf upgrades and mods...
Yeah, I don' think suspension will help your ride height much if any...and adding preload might hurt your handling. Sounds to me like the handling is spot on if you're already dragging footpegs. New rearsets are definitely in your future. I know Brammo's working on them. I plan to pick up a pair ASAP. In the near-term, you can mitigate this my hanging off of the bike while cornering and riding on the balls of your feet if you're not doing it already.
I weigh about 150 ish.
Could you take a pic of where the adjustments are on the sachs?
Also is there a height adjustment on the suspension too? I have a small inseam and would make it a bit more comfortable with a lower bike (without compromising suspension travel).
Preload and dampening settings are usually not settings that you can see since the knobs often make many revolutions. They usually have detents, so you'll wanna know the number of clicks from fully open (or closed). Shock preload is the exception, and there people usually just measure the length of threads showing past the collar.
My $0.02 on this thread. I haven't received my Empulse R yet, and so I don't know how well the suspension is going to work for me. Some people are really in tune with their suspension and chassis and they really like to get the most out of a new bike. These are typically people who have had saddle time on well set-up bikes with really nice suspension bits. I bet most riders will be perfectly happy with the stock dampening settings. I switch between bikes a lot, and so I usually just try to come close and then adjust my riding.
It's really fun to experiment with dampening settings, but it should always be done in a scientific way. In the past, I've used race chassis shops to set up my bikes (track and even street sometimes). They ask a bunch of questions, set your preload with you geared up, and then they throw in their "optimized" settings. And generally, they're right on, but where's the fun in that. I felt like I wasn't learning anything. Now I do my setup work for the street myself, and it's so much more fun. I've learned a great deal more.
For what it's worth, I recommend:
- Read some stuff on the Internet so you get an idea of what pogo'ing, packing, pushing, etc. is. Learn how to set sag. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0509_motorcycle_suspension_damping/ (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0509_motorcycle_suspension_damping/)
- Experiment with with tire pressure during break-in. Once you find something you like, set it and make sure you set it before every day of suspension experimentation. I habitually run a little low, sacrificing low-speed maneuverability for cornering-grip. It's too low if you feel like the bike is falling into corners. This is because the tire is more square now due to the influence of the rim.
- Record your stock suspension settings.
- Set your preload (sag). Check with Brammo or Internet for recommendations for that fork and shock and you're riding style.
- Ride that for a few weeks after break-in.
- Pick an end to start on. I start with the front. Keep the other end fixed (stock or last best setting).
- Experiment with rebound for a day on the same stretch of representative road. Go from fully open to fully closed, then start splitting the difference and do some before and after comparisons. Continue this "binary search" until you've nailed it. (Think of your last optometrist appointment).
- Ride that for a few weeks and then experiment with compression dampening.
- Switch ends and repeat.
I bet most people (including myself) will be happy with just a preload setting. If you're really light or really heavy, you might need new springs. Preload should be used cautiously since it effectively reduces the performance of the spring. On the track, I always looked at the preload as a fine adjustment and selecting the right springs as a coarse adjustment.
And something purely anecdotal about rebound dampening that I learned from downhill mountain biking. Fast rebound dampening makes big hits feel harsh. The idea is that you don't want your wheel to track through a series of big hits, high-speed, you actually want it to skip across the tops. Furthermore, it's that strong and fast rebound response that sends that harsh input through the chassis. I've been thinking about this a lot and wondering if that would help city driving on the Empulse over really rough roads. Of course, we're talking about higher-speed roads, and not low-speed cornering. Unfortunately, I don't think full-adjustable on the Empulse R means high/low-speed rebound/compression dampening.
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Nice write up...
As for "having connections"...ha...the thought of me having connections is perhaps slightly exaggerated...
Personally I would like it to be a part of the Brammo pre-order and set up...basically one question: What is your weight and riding style...ok, 2 questions.
Then Brammo sets the shocks at delivery that is somewhat optimal for the size and riding style of the buyer.
Me: I'm right at 6 foot (slowly shrinking, but still a bit over 6 foot in sneakers, a bit under in barefeet) and 180 pounds (10 pounds heavier than I like, but I'm getting use to it...sadly)....
I figure that is right about the norm for US riders and likely the Empulse would be set in a nice area for me...
At the same time I am not an aggressive rider...If I'm dragging a knee that means I am falling down :)
But I still have fun in the twisties and get a nice lean on...just a safe lean.
So I would answer the suggested Brammo Questions as: 180 pounds and moderate rider (options would be safe/beginner rider: moderate/experienced rider: aggressive/crazy knee dragging rider)
Gavin
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Please excuse me if I'm being a pedant and everyone already knows this kind of stuff. I'm just trying to help.
I don't know anything about suspension, so I for one appreciate the information.
- Read some stuff on the Internet so you get an idea of what pogo'ing, packing, pushing, etc. is. Learn how to set sag. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0509_motorcycle_suspension_damping/ (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0509_motorcycle_suspension_damping/)
That website says that I should rebuild the suspension after 15k miles. I've just passed 20k. :o I don't think that my suspension is trashed. It might be, but it's all straight roads in Florida, and most of the stuff I'm on isn't too bumpy, so perhaps suspension isn't too critical. Am I taking a big risk? How much does a suspension rebuild cost anyway?
I bet most people (including myself) will be happy with just a preload setting.
I'm about 150 lbs and have at least 15-20 lbs of gear, and I'm not very aggressive, so the default suspension is probably fine for me.
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Shiny, I hope it didn't damp your spirits too much.
Caveat here: this is probably the nicest suspension I've ever had, so I may just not know any better.
No damping of spirits at all! I agree with others that the stock shock may well suit others' riding style and preferences. My yardstick was a top-end set of Wilbers on a R1200R. Before that, I was fat, dumb and happy with whatever came on my bikes. If you like it, it works.
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That website says that I should rebuild the suspension after 15k miles. I've just passed 20k. :o I don't think that my suspension is trashed. It might be, but it's all straight roads in Florida, and most of the stuff I'm on isn't too bumpy, so perhaps suspension isn't too critical. Am I taking a big risk? How much does a suspension rebuild cost anyway?
In my totally non-expert opinion, you are not taking a big risk. If the shock is no longer doing its job, you will feel it. Harshness from bottoming out. Failure to damp properly (pogo action). If it feels good, it probably is.
As to pricing: highly local, so check with shops in your area. Here's an example from a not-so-cheap city, San Francisco:
http://www.superplushsuspension.com/o-pricing.htm (http://www.superplushsuspension.com/o-pricing.htm)
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At the same time I am not an aggressive rider...If I'm dragging a knee that means I am falling down :)
But I still have fun in the twisties and get a nice lean on...just a safe lean.
That's about my style. With just over 1000 miles on the Empulse R, my chicken strips are still almost a full inch. After 35K on my R1200R, they were half that. That said, the Empulse gives me much more confidence in cornering at speed. So far, I haven't made it down to my favorite "twisty" route, and use it almost solely as a commuter/ride around SF bike. Better weather coming though!
Also, I'd offer that throwing a knee out, even hanging off, need not be thought of as aggressive, since it allows considerably more traction than riding on the rims! I find that I do a moderate hang-off even when I feel I don't absolutely "need" to. Just makes the bike happier in the turn, which on the Empulse is saying something, since it seems to grin through all of them. ;D
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My daughter's VFR (which used to be mine) has almost 90k miles on its Ohlins shock. It has never been serviced and she remains happy with its performance. I am more concerned about dirty fork oil wearing out the components, but the only real problems that I have seen with a damper-rod fork is the failure of any rubber seals that might be in the fork. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with upside-down cartridge-type forks, like the ones used on the Brammo. From what I have heard they should probably be serviced every 15K to 20K miles in order to keep them in good working order.
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I have to agree with implovator.
The suspension on the bike is actually quite good, possibly a bit aggressive for a city with bad roads.
But i would see no need to alter it if I were using it to commute.
I should also note, I have never even thought to rebuild my suspension at 15k... this seems a bit excessive in my opinion....
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I've been commuting on it 35 miles or so of highway each way. There are a few potholes on our highways that I'd like to see go away, but the main thing that is annoying is the ripples. The bike is all like "Hey, look, the highway goes down, and then up and then down and then up." And, I'm like "Very nice, but I'd prefer to just sit here and let the tires enjoy that, can we leave me out of this?"
Time to see a suspension tuner... :(
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Thanks for pointing this aspect out. Exactly!
The stretch of 101 South freeway, lane 1, between Grand Ave. and So. Airport Blvd darned near bucks me off the bike as the ripples set up a harmonic response in the stiff suspension.
I don't want to "suck it up." I want the suspension to "soak it up."
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Thanks for pointing this aspect out. Exactly!
The stretch of 101 South freeway, lane 1, between Grand Ave. and So. Airport Blvd darned near bucks me off the bike as the ripples set up a harmonic response in the stiff suspension.
I don't want to "suck it up." I want the suspension to "soak it up."
Good luck with that. I have been riding that highway off and on for almost 50 years now and I have yet to own a motorcycle with a suspension that can deal with the pavement. Maybe dirt bike suspension is needed to absorb the bumps, potholes, and concrete pavement joints of that section of the Bayshore Freeway. ???
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Yes. Get the suspension adjusted. I weigh 150 lbs and the suspensions are typically way to stiff. Luckily, I have a suspension pro right here in town, but the dealer should do it for you. It makes all the difference. If you find yourself flying off the seat when you hit a bump or dip, it's imperative. Having said that though, The suspension on the Empulse I test rode today seems OK for me. I didn't get up to full speed though. BTW, that bike is for say. It's a demo and also for sale if you live near Austin. I doubt they would knock anything off the price for it being used though...although they should.
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If you go to a shop, make sure they are custom building your suspension like Brian said. A "cheap" setup that is custom (and correct) will be better than a high end set up that is off-the shelf. Most race shops will dial in OEM equipment for $40 to $80, and it's money well spent. They can point you to the system's weaknesses, too. Also keep in mind that compression/rebound settings will be different for each piece, so while one 150lbs person will use full tight, another 150lbs person will want full loose, and the shock/fork would perform exactly he same. Even high end stuff isn't consistent.
I recommend Penske for the shock and Traxxion Dynamics for the forks in terms of bang for the buck. Doing both with top of the line stuff will run ~$2,300, or ~1,500 with lower grade equipment.
As far as maintenance is concerned, all suspension has a bushing at the bottom that slides along the inside of the cylinder. As it is sliding, it is wearing. Eventually you end up with a nice, metallic mix in the fluid which acts like a sandpaper and wears things out even faster. Just swapping fluids every 15k miles will make a big difference. Doing a full cleaning is even better.
Realistically suspension is a big compromise. If you set it up for pot holes, it'll be bad in corners, and vice versa. I plan on sticking with OEM equipment, and maybe - and that's a big maybe - swapping springs.
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Realistically suspension is a big compromise. If you set it up for pot holes, it'll be bad in corners, and vice versa. I plan on sticking with OEM equipment, and maybe - and that's a big maybe - swapping springs.
I hear what you're saying about getting suspension set up correctly. And, I see the common sense in your "compromise" hypothesis, and would totally agree with you were it not for my experience of having Wilbers suspension set up properly on a R1200R which dialed in the handling on twisties AND smoothed out the abrupt impacts of potholes to a satisfactory degree. Heck it even tamed the washboard roller coaster of the Bayshore Freeway! So I know it CAN be done!
Perhaps a big part of getting it to do both is to have a shock with separate high-speed and low-speed circuits.
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This afternoon I rode down to Catalyst Reaction Tuning, 1010 Commercial Street, San Carlos, CA and had them adjust my 2012 Zero S suspension. It took them about 30 minutes (including talking about old times at Cal BMW where they used to work) to perform the work. The cost for their "basic suspension setup" was only $40. I complained that the bike was weaving around corners in the Santa Cruz Mountains at speeds above 50 mph and they told me that the suspension was set much too soft. After spinning the dials and riding around for a few minutes to test their work, they gave it to me to test ride. The bike rides much firmer and is noticeably more stable when cornering. Naturally, it is not as plush around town, but keeping the wallow at bay is probably worth a harsher ride over city potholes. Attached is a photo of their shop.
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The shop is really hard to find, as there is no sign and the only address is on the man door next to their roll-up door, located off the street and in a fenced-off yard. Attached is a photo of the shop taken from across the driveway. Commercial Street is on the left.
Note: The address that I found on their website is incorrect, as they have recently moved to this new, but nearby, location and it appears that their website needs a little updating. But their trailer kind of gives the location away.
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can anyone tell me if the ride height is adjustable? It looks like the rear is but not sure of the front. My inseam is 30" and I am a bit on my toes on the bike.
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can anyone tell me if the ride height is adjustable? It looks like the rear is but not sure of the front. My inseam is 30" and I am a bit on my toes on the bike.
Just noticed this was never answered. It doesn't look very adjustable to me. There are no linkages in the rear to change out. The forks look like they have enough clearance to raise them in the clamps, but it might hurt the handling because the front end already feels a little steep. Sure it'll turn in better, but it losing that trail would hurt the mid-corner and corner exit stability.
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FWIF, my $0.02 on suspension and handling.
Thin seat plus slow dampening definitely equals a harsh ride...when riding mild mannered. I was out to test the Empulse's range on my long commute which has a leg to campus before going to work. On campus, it was harsh. Riding down the interstate, big bumps were harsh. I immediately starting thinking of this thread and of what kind of adjustments I would make after I set the preload properly.
Then something changed. Once I got my range calculations out of the way, I started riding it with a little more attitude. Wow is all I can say. From what I can tell, the suspension really needs to be under load to really operate in the zone. Keith Code's books were the first place I had ever heard about that magical middle third of suspension travel. Once I started cornering with a little more speed and hanging off of the bike, it really opened up. I started getting on the throttle earlier in corners too, and it loaded the backend nicely.
I guess what I'm getting at is, I think this bike is nearly perfect for my riding already. However, this is far from a boring commuter, and I know full well if I'm daydreaming my way over every bump in the road then I'm going to feel it.
The real unfortunate thing here is that they only released the R straight away. The Empulse has the perfect specs to be a commuting monster since it's water-cooled and it has a huge pack. However, the suspension is going to be a literal pain in the ass for any commuter. I wonder if this is something that they can address with the non-adjustable suspension in the non-R Empulse? Even if they can, it means that we early adopters who jumped on the R will need to either put up with the suspension, try to adjust it for comfort, or thrown in some Ohlins kit. Kind of a bummer, but I for one am super happy since I'm going to wring this bike out. I can't wait for Sport mode!
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It is possible that the Empulse's suspension will soften up after a few thousand miles. The Fast Ace forks on my Zero had a lot of "striction" when new and their dust seals made a "thunking" noise when hitting small bumps. Also they gave a harsh ride. After about a thousand miles, they stopped making the noise and the ride became much smoother. By then both the fork and rear shock needed their compression, rebound and preload settings adjusted and now everything is working much better than when the bike was new. So your ride may improve over time.
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It is possible that the Empulse's suspension will soften up after a few thousand miles.
That's a good point. I'll check back in with everyone in a week after I've got a thousand miles on it. :) I wish. It's going to take a while to get that mileage for me riding 50 miles day. In all seriousness, though, I intend to do some careful butt dyno-ing on this bike. I'll let the suspension loosen up and then start turning some knobs. I've got a nice ride home from work with a dozen or so good curves that I can hit everyday. They range from 65mph curve down to 25mph bus stops. I'll try an get some video up.
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I'm about 220+ miles in and the fronts seemed to have soften up. The rear is still seems a bit stiff for my 150lb frame.
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Well this old butt (pushing 70) has 1500 miles on the Empulse clock and the ride seems just as overly stiff for SF streets and freeway concrete expansion joints as on day 1. Can't wait for the Ohlins rear shock which may come in this week. I'll report back. Wish my butt didn't have such expensive requirements. ;)
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implovator, sounds like you could do with taking a click or two off the compression dampening, that will soften it up. Just remember that general wisdom when playing with your suspension is only change 1 thing one click and ride, repeat as necessary. And take notes. Really wish Arron would get on the forum and give you folks some pointers.
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I wonder if this is something that they can address with the non-adjustable suspension in the non-R Empulse?
Note that the non-R bike is listed on the specs page with "semi-adjustable" suspension pieces. That was clarified during one of my discussions with a factory representative to mean that it will actually have just as many adjustable parameters as the R bike, but it will likely have fewer clicks/levels of adjustability for each parameter and the parts will be a step down on the OEM parts list in terms of overall quality. So, while the suspension on the non-R bike may be softer/more compliant (time will tell), it will still be adjustable...
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Well this old butt (pushing 70) has 1500 miles on the Empulse clock and the ride seems just as overly stiff for SF streets and freeway concrete expansion joints as on day 1. Can't wait for the Ohlins rear shock which may come in this week. I'll report back. Wish my butt didn't have such expensive requirements. ;)
A 20 minute visit to Catalyst Reaction (http://www.crstuning.com/) in San Carlos could make a world of difference for around $40. This not-nearly-as-old butt (pushing 50 and probably 100 lbs more butt) was very pleased, and the springs weren't even stiff enough for him to do it "right". It will be interesting to see how good it gets when we order the right springs...
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if I remember correctly...a huge if at my age and mental abilities...
The R has Rebound Damping and Compression Damping on the Front Shocks. The non R has Rebound, but not Compression Damping.
I think both have Rebound and Compression on the back, but I'm not 100% sure...and I think, as mentioned above, the R has a few more settings and slightly better components??
Gavin
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I think both have Rebound and Compression on the back, but I'm not 100% sure...and I think, as mentioned above, the R has a few more settings and slightly better components??
On Brammo's site, they mention "gold" internals for the forks. Seems that Racetech has a trademark on their gold valves but I feel like I've heard of other valve kits as "gold" too. Whatever valves they are, they're probably a pretty serious upgrade, short of throwing in completely new cartridges.
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Anyone know what weight oil they use in the fork and in the shock on the Empulse R? I'm guessing that I'll have enough dampening adjustment when I set my suspension up, but in the even that I don't I might end up changing out the oil. I know there's some debate about the rebuildability of the Sach shock, but IIRC it has a remote reservoir and a nitrogen refill shraeder valve so that's usually a good indication that you can at least change out oil and recharge the shock.
I don't have my bike in front of me...torrential downpour today...but I'll look closer tonight. Man I don't know what's worse...waiting a couple of years for an Empulse or knowing that one's in your garage and you can't ride it. I feel for you guys that are snowed in right now. I'm riding in the thirties, but at least the roads have been clear until today.
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I don't know about the Empulse's fork or shock oil weight, but I was surprised to find out that the cartridge female-slider fork on my Yamaha FZ1 used 0 weight oil. I think you will find that the oil used in both suspension components is a lot lighter than what most of us long-time owners of damping-rod forks are used to (which would typically be around 10 weight).
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Update on my Don Quixote quest for a softer ride over San Francisco's potholes. (I know: it's a sports bike).
Here's the headlines of my saga:
After 3000 miles, my OEM rear shock has not softened one bit.
Ohlins says they should be able to supply a shock for the Empulse, upon request by local suspension shop, Super Plush Suspension of San Francisco.
Super Plush orders a custom shock, after I give them a buncha money.
After Ohlins consults with Super Plush and Brammo (I think), they send a shock modeled on the one fitted to the RR. Cool, I hope.
It doesn't work because the control module is on the end cap and therefore hits the passenger peg mount. Ohlins solution: tell the customer to remove the pegs. No go with customer (me).
Send shock back and start over with Ohlins who really doesn't seem to want to be in the business of making one-offs, even if there's promise of more sales in the future. Can't be bothered, is the feeling I get.
After negotiation with Super Plush, Ohlins wants to cobble together some parts of an esoteric European car shock at a cost of an additional $400 on top of the $1500 I've committed to. Their proposal will come with all kinds of fancy adjustments I'll never need. Shop tells them no deal; just send something with x stroke and y length.
Ohlins does, an off-the-shelf Ducati model, but the large base plate diameter interferes with the tubular steel of the swing arm and it won't possibly mount up, though it's really very pretty to look at.
Back it goes.
Now, I originally thought to go the Ohlins route because of the internet forums' consensus that Sachs shocks couldn't be rebuilt and Ohlins are eminently serviceable.
Not true about the Sachs, as it turns out. Eric at SuperPlush lets me watch as we explore the shim stack inside the Sachs and make judicious adjustments to revalve it. What a fascinating mechanical solution to controlling fluid flow; I never would have come up with that approach!
Result: much better ride! I'd say we're more than half way to where I want to end up. The ride is much softer, but still quite sporty-stiff, but the adjusters have to be backed off all the way. The good news is that there's quite a lot of range in the adjusters, so we just need to get the shims to give me a nice ride when the adjusters are in their midrange and I should end up a) happier in the butt department and b) heavier in the wallet department.
I'll try to post what shim configuration we end up with, since there's not a lot of data on Sachs shocks, at least in the U.S. that I can find.
Kudos to Eric and Super Plush for hanging in there with a bike and a shock that is new to them and way off the radar of the KTM Adventure work they're famous for.
Ohlins? Well not so much, but they are, after all, huge. And they do make purty stuff with a good reputation on the racetracks of the world. Maybe someday, they'll see the electric light in an accommodating way. It'll probably take Craig and company's wild Empulse worldwide success to generate numbers that attract their attention. But I'm just guessing.
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Thanks for the report, Shinysideup. Unfortunately, I am not surprised about your experience with Ohlins. They are a big operation and looking for volume sales. As you discovered, you need to go to a small specialty shop that has the knowledge and time to invest in working on a one-off project. It also helps to have this work performed before the racing season starts and they become much busier than they are during the winter.
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Hey Shinysideup,
Did Superplush measure the spring rate for the rear spring? I'm trying to get information on the current spring rate to help me pick out a new spring. I'm running too much preload for my liking in the rear.
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I asked Adam what the spring rates were after my suspension tuner wanted a reference to choose a new spring for me. He sent me the following specs:
- The travel is 120mm (forks and shock)
- Forks – 9.8N/mm
- Shock – 90N/mm
Does that look right that they are different by a factor of 10x? I haven't made any progress on getting a new spring so I never looked closely enough at the numbers to ask if there is a missing decimal point...
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Thanks, Flar! That's exactly what I needed! Those numbers look pretty good. The front springs look like they're on the higher end, but nothing out of the ordinary. And to answer your question, it's perfectly reasonable to have a 10x stiffer rear spring, because of the mechanical linkage in the rear. I'll try and pull my shock soon so that I can get some detailed measurements. That should be the last thing I need to pick a new spring. I'll fill out a worksheet from Racetech with the dimensions and then post it up when I'm done.