Brammo Owners Forum
General => Brammo News And Views => Topic started by: Brammofan on September 17, 2015, 08:33:16 AM
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http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/09/16/the-electric-superbike-the-end-of-the-beginning/ (http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/09/16/the-electric-superbike-the-end-of-the-beginning/)
This is written by Michael Uhlarik, the designer of the Amarok racing motorcycle. He could have done a little more research, as his reports of Brammo's demise are greatly exaggerated. Make sure to read Brian Wismann's comment after the article. So far, Uhlarik hasn't responded, but I'm hoping he does. In the meantime, pop your popcorn and prepare for the drama.
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I'm not in that industry, so what do I know, but his point about organic growth seems well made. Zero's approach of gradual model evolution vs. Brammo's attempted leap from Enertia right to Empulse seems to have carried the day in the end. But for a motorcycle designer who seems focused on the technology's viability, it seems strange to not discuss the current state of the tech. What are the charge time for DC fast chargers, what kind of battery capacity are we looking at, what's on the horizon? What are the actual costs?
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I found it an interesting article, but I sort of wished they also had mentioned the Electric Motorsport GPR-S, which preceded the Brammo Enertia to the market by a couple of years and had similar range and performance - if not similar build quality and reliability.
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http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/09/16/the-electric-superbike-the-end-of-the-beginning/ (http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/09/16/the-electric-superbike-the-end-of-the-beginning/)
This is written by Michael Uhlarik, the designer of the Amarok racing motorcycle. He could have done a little more research, as his reports of Brammo's demise are greatly exaggerated. Make sure to read Brian Wismann's comment after the article. So far, Uhlarik hasn't responded, but I'm hoping he does. In the meantime, pop your popcorn and prepare for the drama.
I also think it's interesting that Brian has stated a couple times that the IOM TT effort was basically a Brammo undertaking, even though Victory has clearly made a big to-do about it. I'm not doubting that at all, just surprised the Polaris didn't make Brammo sign some kind of a non-disclose agreement about these things. Also, how can they still be developing motorcycles when their motorcycle business has been bought out? Anyway, this just inside baseball stuff for us to geek out over- speaking off, Michael Uhlarik responded to Brian's post.
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Brian sure didn't waste any time responding to that article. ;)
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nice reply by Brian.
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Why do I even read the stuff over here? ;D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
I fail to see how the title is clickbait, either. It is, in fact, the "end of the beginning" of the market. That's precisely why I chose this time period to start the book - we're entering a new phase in the electric motorcycle story.
Seriously, though, I'd appreciate anyone pointing out inaccuracies in what he's claiming as fact - not judgement calls (like "Brammo failed") 'cause I can't find much that he got wrong, according to my research and records.
I'll put it out here, too, since I know Brian reads this stuff. Fine, you have issues with his description of your company's current status? You don't like his point of view? Great, but there's no reason to make it a personal comment on his work with Amarok. I've seen Brian do that to me, and to several others on the forums - just because we don't agree, or take issue with several instances of reality not matching up with claims (from a current, but also historical perspective) doesn't mean we're angry garage builders (as you called me), or bitter at our own less-than-successful efforts (as you accused Michael: "I believe that you’re simply venting your own frustration to have any significant impact in this market with Amarock…").
It's unprofessional, and frankly, any good marketing guy's nightmare - having a company officer weigh in on the forums at a personal level. Besides that? It simply makes you look like the bitter, frustrated party... especially after what we've witnessed in the last 2 years.
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Why do I even read the stuff over here? ;D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
I fail to see how the title is clickbait, either. It is, in fact, the "end of the beginning" of the market. That's precisely why I chose this time period to start the book - we're entering a new phase in the electric motorcycle story.
Seriously, though, I'd appreciate anyone pointing out inaccuracies in what he's claiming as fact - not judgement calls (like "Brammo failed") 'cause I can't find much that he got wrong, according to my research and records.
I'll put it out here, too, since I know Brian reads this stuff. Fine, you have issues with his description of your company's current status? You don't like his point of view? Great, but there's no reason to make it a personal comment on his work with Amarok. I've seen Brian do that to me, and to several others on the forums - just because we don't agree, or take issue with several instances of reality not matching up with claims (from a current, but also historical perspective) doesn't mean we're angry garage builders (as you called me), or bitter at our own less-than-successful efforts (as you accused Michael: "I believe that you’re simply venting your own frustration to have any significant impact in this market with Amarock…").
It's unprofessional, and frankly, any good marketing guy's nightmare - having a company officer weigh in on the forums at a personal level. Besides that? It simply makes you look like the bitter, frustrated party... especially after what we've witnessed in the last 2 years.
Not that he needs it, but I'll come to Brian's defense here. I've worked in two relatively high profile Government agencies for most of my adult career, the kinds of places that people like to take shots at and offer all sorts of suggestions of how they could run things so much better. I think it's safe to say that 99% of the time people have no idea to what's going on inside the walls, the kind of work that people are putting in, or understand the nuanced reasons for certain actions that may not make sense from the outside, but are necessary choices that need to be made. So to hear your stuff getting dragged through the mud in the press, especially when with little to no policy background does grade. Now obviously someone like Michael Uhlarick has a better grasp than your typical journalist, but he still does not have the inside view of what's going on in Brammo or any of these other places. And for someone like Brian who's rightfully proud of, say, the IOM effort, I bet it hits a nerve. In the end, I'm sure cooler heads will prevail and we'll move on to the next thing :)
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Don't get me wrong, I completely understand his passion, and the others on the team I know personally. Don't forget, we both were on Elmoto.net "back in the day". Brammo started early on pushing the social media and forums as a way to get "free" exposure (a term I loathe and despise, knowing how much time and effort it takes to do it...), but as the criticism mounted and the passion increased, it became a textbook case of how it can go wrong.
They have marketing and PR people for a reason - and they are really good at understanding how what you say is perceived. Not so much the guys you describe behind the walls, precisely because of what they know and their personal involvement. (As an aside, I once had a sit-down with a guy about his marketing plan. When I asked him if he had one, he said "Of course we do." When I asked him what it was, he said "Simply to be the best". That's passion talking, not marketing, and it's meaningless when you're talking to customers.)
A marketing guy would have probably responded in much the same way - asserting that Brammo is not dead, but done it in a far less personal way, and without the insult. What's there to gain in that?
What's interesting to me is that Zero (in the context of this story and thread) has never, with the exception of Luke (liveforphysics) had much of a presence in the social and forum circles. As far as I understand, Luke was asked to scale back his activity once his role with Zero became more formal, in fact.
Whatever... what do you call the opposite of "preaching to the choir"? :D
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Whatever... what do you call the opposite of "preaching to the choir"? :D
"Scolding the ignorant"? ;)
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...talkin' to the hand? 8)
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I fail to see how the title is clickbait, either. It is, in fact, the "end of the beginning" of the market. That's precisely why I chose this time period to start the book - we're entering a new phase in the electric motorcycle story.
Clickbait is a loaded term. Some simply use it as "a link designed to make you want to click" and others use it for "fluff useless articles that are advertised via a link that seems to indicate there is something more there, but the actual web site is pathetic".
This article definitely had quite a number of points to make about the evolution of the industry. The title was very strong, and the graphic (which was the first I saw/heard of the article) is even stronger and makes a rather alarming "E-Bikes are a scam" statement that I don't think the author really meant - it was more of a straw man that he analyzes the pros and cons of rather than the point of the article. However, coming off of those 2 indicators can leave someone skeptical about the partiality of the article (at least until, and only if, the reader realizes the overall content is more about the industry shifting into a new phase).
So, is this "clickbait"? I'd only use that term for it in its less judgmental ("please click me!") sense of the word.
Seriously, though, I'd appreciate anyone pointing out inaccuracies in what he's claiming as fact - not judgement calls (like "Brammo failed") 'cause I can't find much that he got wrong, according to my research and records.
There were a few facts in the section comparing the Zero to the Empulse R that don't match the specs, but nothing earth-shattering. It would have been nice to mention the higher top speed, especially the sustainable top speed of the R there for balance, but again, that doesn't necessarily relate to the eventual points of the article about the industry, though it does sharpen the digs made at Brammo's operations. (One more nit - there was never any product called the "2013 Zero SR". That inaccuracy makes it appear that the R and the SR were same-year competitors when the SR was a year after the R.)
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Yeah, I know what clickbait is. I'm a writer, remember? :D
This ain't clickbait. It's actually a pretty concise call on where we're at, today, in the industry. It is the end of the "beginning". If you call a title that "makes you want to click" clickbait, you just called every title ever written on the web clickbait.
It's a great title, in fact. And a great piece.
http://insideevs.com/electric-superbike-end-beginning/ (http://insideevs.com/electric-superbike-end-beginning/)
Thanks for the detail corrections.
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Why do I even read the stuff over here? ;D
Why are you here? Do you own a Brammo? Do you ride? I've read everything you wrote in this forum, some of your articles and every time I come away with the impression that you're an asshole. Even if you have any solid facts to share you still present yourself as an asshole.
It's unprofessional, and frankly, any good marketing guy's nightmare - having a company officer weigh in on the forums at a personal level.
Speaking about being unprofessional. It seems that Brian responded to that article for the same reason I'm responding to you, asshole. Don't be an unprofessional asshole.
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LMAO
Awesome. Good job.
I looked up your profile, just out of curiosity. So yeah, unlike you I've ridden for all of my adult life, since my first bike in 1970. I built my own electric motorcycle before I could even buy a Brammo or Zero. I've built several, now. Unlike you, I'm not a noob. I know more about the construction and design of your bike than you do, or likely ever will. I know a whole lot of people who've worked really hard - some of them from Brammo - getting electric motorcycles to the point that you could run to your dealer and buy your precious Empulse, and I hope you enjoy it thoroughly.
You can go ahead and call me names, but for all the "asshole" shit you want to spew, I've never insulted a member here as you just did, and if you think calling out fact against bullshit is being an asshole, then you're right. I'm an asshole.
I'll leave it to Harry to call whether he wants to leave your contribution standing... if so, I'll leave you to it. Thanks for the morning entertainment.
...funny, I got back on this group to respond to the post "Why the Brammo hate?" ;D
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Yeah, I know what clickbait is. I'm a writer, remember? :D
This ain't clickbait. It's actually a pretty concise call on where we're at, today, in the industry. It is the end of the "beginning". If you call a title that "makes you want to click" clickbait, you just called every title ever written on the web clickbait.
It's a great title, in fact. And a great piece.
The title isn't really clickbait, but that graphic (which is what appears if you share the article on a FB timeline) is misleading and sensationalist. In particular, here is what you see on a FB news feed:
80% Graphic with big red letters underneath it "PLUG-IN ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLES ARE A SCAM"
15% Text underneath that with the title of the article "The Electric Superbike - The End of the Beginning" (the title is in smaller font than the SCAM caption)
5% Text below that which appears to be a summary of the article: "Electric motorcycle companies are dying. Is the electric motorcycle a dead concept?"
All in all, when you see that, it comes across as just one step away from "AND YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!" even though the article itself is nothing like those "WON'T BELIEVE" sites/articles.
In particular, when I first saw a pointer to this article on my FB feed I didn't click on it precisely because that graphic screamed "clickbait" to me - it gave me an expectation that the article was a general put-down of the concept of EV motorcycles using Mission as a trigger point by a writer who couldn't get attention any other way. While it was very critical of Mission, it was more about an industry evolution than an industry-wide scam. It wasn't until someone posted the link to the article here (with just the title) that I decided it was worth a read (and actually didn't even realize it was the same article that I had avoided due to the sensational graphic until I reached the page and saw the graphic there). I decided to read anyway because I was already there and it was being discussed here or I may have just closed the window.
Until I saw the name of the link here I thought that "Plug-in Electric Motorcycles Are A Scam" was the actual title of the article, and if nothing else, more of a barometer of what the article would be about.
Is that clickbait? I think that graphic and the summary, when compared to the actual direction that the article takes - is a form of clickbaiting. The contents of the graphic and the 2 sentences used to provide some idea of content are sensationalistic and misleading about what the article is going to be about - and in a way that will attract a lot of clicks from people who probably are looking more for some serious schadenfreude rather than a historical accounting and an industry analysis.
But, the purest form of clickbaiting - the robotically generated sites that tie into search engines and social media advertising with the "You'll never believe!" meme - the article is a long way from anything like that, but you wouldn't think it was very far from that just judging from what shows up on your FB feed...
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Totally agree on the sensationalist graphics, and frankly, they confuse me. I think it kind of does a disservice to Michael's writing, frankly. As for the Facebook feed, good point. I didn't see it in my feed, nor did I see that leading graphic.
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LMAO
I've never insulted a member here as you just did, and if you think calling out fact against bullshit is being an asshole, then you're right. I'm an asshole.
I'll leave it to Harry to call whether he wants to leave your contribution standing... if so, I'll leave you to it. Thanks for the morning entertainment.
I never insulted you I'm just expressing my opinion on the facts I have, kind of like you...
To insult you I would have called you a whiny liberal asshole, see the difference?
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Now, boys..... Am I going to have to separate you?
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Brilliant. Like I said, why do I even read the stuff over here?
No need to separate us, Harry, I have a book to write and no time for dumbasses like this guy. Sorry to see this group go the way of the rest of the idiocracy.
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Ted, don't you think that deciding the way this entire group is going based on the comments of one member is using a broad brush to smear us all? I, for one, found being put by you into the set labeled "idiocracy" a bit harsh.
Looking forward to your book, now that you've freed up more time!
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Ted Dillard is definitely not an a*****e, but I have to say, I am also not sure why he's here. I guess he sees this as another forum to articulate and refine his views on the industry as a whole. That's fine and well, but I don't think that's why most of us hang out here, and I usually come away from threads like this feeling like I could have spent the time in better ways. I'll try to make better choices in the future.
But I do like the rhetorical question: what is the opposite of "preaching to the choir"? Buggering the choirboys? Too crude, perhaps. I'll try to come up with something better.
I did read the article and it struck me as mostly opinion based on speculation. Approaching journalism, but not quite journalism. It would have been an interesting read if I hadn't already read most of it before.
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I usually come away from threads like this feeling like I could have spent the time in better ways. I'll try to make better choices in the future.
Preach it, brother. ;)
Lately, my favorite posts are ones like your "won't charge" topic where we find out that Brammo still cares about our bikes and goes the extra mile to help solve our issues. And folks that post pictures and detailed instructions of their mods.
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Preach it, brother. ;)
You did start this thread, right? ::)
(...since you won't let me close my account, I just HAD to respond. I've been biting my virtual tongue for two days about the title of this thread, and the last thread you started. They're more clickbait than the story you're accusing of being clickbait. lmao. NOW can you close my account pleeeze? :P)
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NOW can you close my account pleeeze? :P)
Ted, I sent you a private message telling you, step by step, how to delete your account. Maybe you didn't get that message. I'll repeat it here.
Go to "Profile". Go to the "Actions" tab. You are then given the option to delete your account. Please let me know if you have problems with that and I'll see what I can do.
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Did just what you tole me. Din't work. :P
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Did just what you tole me. Din't work. :P
It's done. Go in peace.
All right, fellow members. He's gone.