Dead battery module --> dead bike

[DjZ]

Hey guys,

bad news from my side: my bike won't run anymore in the near future.

After a longer time in which the bike was not used due to a relocation, it was completly dead and would not charge with the onboard charger. There was no 12 V voltage left to start the process. I managed to power the modules with my two additional chargers but the bike would not start up. I still got B40 and B6 failures.
Today I dismounted the battery modules which were logged as not communicating (thanks to KaFr for the Link to the log-converter). After taking a look at module 6, there is no more guessing... The cells are bloated! Even the outer housing shows a clear dent.

So unless someone has 1 or 2 spare battery module he wants to get rid off or I manage to rebuild a battery pack by myself, it is "Farewell, Empulse R!"

[DjZ]

here some more pictures of the disassambled battery pack

[DjZ]

BMS-board

[DjZ]

pack

[DjZ]

cell

[EV promise]

Many thanks for the great images though feel for you as to why they were taken. Seeing as you have been able to dismantle the module I have a couple of questions please. Can the cells or similar still be obtained and from where? Is the circuit board ok or did that cause the cell to drain and fail?
I was thinking the log file would show the individual cell pack voltage but if the bike hasn't been used then no file would be generated. Hope it works out and parts can be found.

[Leander]

Are any individual cells still ok?

[DjZ]

yes the first two rows of cells are still okay, the other two rows (with the bloated cells) are below 1.0 V.
Circuit board seems to be okay, as far as I can tell.
I am trying to find a supplier for these cells but it seems as if this is not really a common format.. only thing I found so far is this one:
https://www.batteryspace.com/high-power-lithium-linimnco-polymer-cell-3-7v-10ah-10059156-5c-37wh-100a-rate----un38-3-passed.aspx

But I have started a few requests and am waiting for response.

[Miki]

Godo morning,

Measure the battery and find it on Aliexpress. I have found many similar ones (but I do not know the exact measurement)

Bye

[DjZ]

Hey Miki,
sorry, but similar won't do any good here! Measurements are 10x60x160mm, continuous discharge rate has to be 3C based on a 10 Ah cell. Chemistry has to be NMC or the old BMS, which interacts with the bikes CAN, will not work.
And as I wrote in my last post, this format is not really common. I had contact with one of these cell suppliers selling on aliexpress and after the initial "Of course, we can and will help you" it did not take long until I got the answer "Sorry, we cannot help you. Good look with your project!"
If you are able to find a suitable cell, please send me a link.

I also had contact with the engineering department of EAS Batteries here in Germany (https://www.eas-batteries.com), but that would have mend to completely redesign the battery pack and especially the BMS for interacting with the CAN. The engineer I have been talking to strongly recommended to not build a pack on my own. Their Department would need and take at least 6 Month for all obligatory shock and vibration tests such a pack has to endure.

[Richard230]

Hey Miki,
sorry, but similar won't do any good here! Measurements are 10x60x160mm, continuous discharge rate has to be 3C based on a 10 Ah cell. Chemistry has to be NMC or the old BMS, which interacts with the bikes CAN, will not work.
And as I wrote in my last post, this format is not really common. I had contact with one of these cell suppliers selling on aliexpress and after the initial "Of course, we can and will help you" it did not take long until I got the answer "Sorry, we cannot help you. Good look with your project!"
If you are able to find a suitable cell, please send me a link.

I also had contact with the engineering department of EAS Batteries here in Germany (https://www.eas-batteries.com), but that would have mend to completely redesign the battery pack and especially the BMS for interacting with the CAN. The engineer I have been talking to strongly recommended to not build a pack on my own. Their Department would need and take at least 6 Month for all obligatory shock and vibration tests such a pack has to endure.

Sounds like big money to me.     It would be a lot cheaper to just invest in a new Energica or Zero - or maybe two or three. 

[DjZ]

Sounds like big money to me.   

Yes, you are right. The cheapest and only realizable option at the moment (swapping only all 36 cells in the defect module) is around 1.500

[HadesOmega]

Wow cool I've never the seen the innards of the Brammo battery, those cells definitely look like thy are done.  Looks like a cell imbalance overcharged them. 

$1000 bux ebay for one module
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164679900033?fits=Model%3AEmpulse&hash=item2657afdb81:g:uLAAAOSwpJ5gGAwo

[Miki]

just in case it helps ...
I have found batteries similar to the ones we are looking for. You should see the price since I get the price for them to send them to Spain (Barcelona)

https://star.aliexpress.com/share/share.htm?image=U17628a9817da4f658b0b69c80f770a18b.jpg&businessType=ProductDetail&title=%E2%82%AC%209%2C37%20%2020%EF%BC%85%20dto.%20%7C%20HRB%203%2C7%20V%20lipo%20bater%C3%ADa%201100%2C%201200%2C%201300%2C%201500%2C%202200%2C%203000%2C%204200%2C%205000%2C%205500%2C%206000%2C%2010000%2C%2016000%2C%2022000mah%20para%20RC%20coche%20helipoter%20quad%20barco&platform=AE&redirectUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F32899881441.html%3F%26srcSns%3Dsns_Mail%26tid%3Dwhite_backgroup_101%26mb%3DXv1WVy0NB2eG4a6%26businessType%3DProductDetail%26spreadType%3DsocialShare

https://star.aliexpress.com/share/share.htm?image=Uc8e7ea581565491386c61a5e701e1481v.jpg&businessType=ProductDetail&title=%E2%82%AC%2010%2C85%20%2027%EF%BC%85%20dto.%20%7C%20HRB-bater%C3%ADa%20Lipo%20de%203%2C7%20V%2C%201300mah%2C%201500mah%2C%202200mah%2C%203000mah%2C%204200mah%2C%205000%20mah%2C%205500%2C%206000%2C%2010000%2C%2012000%2C%2016000%2C%2022000%2C%20mah%2C%20piezas%20de%20bricolaje&platform=AE&redirectUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F32839202154.html%3F%26srcSns%3Dsns_Mail%26tid%3Dwhite_backgroup_101%26mb%3DXv1WVy0NB2eG4a6%26businessType%3DProductDetail%26spreadType%3DsocialShare


I am asking another supplier on aliexpress, but for now they have only told me how many I want 

[DjZ]

hey Hades, thanks for the Link. You are not a life saver, but surely a bike saver .
Miki, yes the size looks suitable. Althought I am really missing a proper data sheet here, I will bookmark the cells for future use. HRB as company was not on the list of suppliers I found so far. Thanks!