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Author Topic: H-D LiveWire at EICMA  (Read 1841 times)

HadesOmega

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2019, 03:35:58 AM »
Yeah Zero is always adding a little bit more every year.

That dirtbike looks interesting I'm planning on buying a Sur Ron dirtbike in the near future the HD Dirtbike looks very comparable to the Sur Ron.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 03:54:52 AM by HadesOmega »
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2016 Victory Empulse TT - #139

HadesOmega

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2019, 03:53:32 AM »
HD showed off 2 concept vehicles aside from the Livewire.  An electric dirt bike and a scooter.  What really interests me is the dirt bike.  I'm planning on buying a Sur Ron in the near future and HD's dirtbike looks very similar in design to the Sur Ron, it's a hybrid mountain bike/motorcycle.

Electrek says:
Quote
The dirt bike could have the market nearly cornered in the US after the recent shuttering of Alta Motors, the only other US-based electric dirt bike manufacturer.

But the Chinese Sur Ron has beat them to the punch.  It looks as if the future will be ultra lightweight electric dirtbikes.


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Richard230

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2019, 09:32:30 AM »
Those ultra-lightweight dirt bikes do look neat. But the problem with them is that in some areas of the country (like the SF Bay Area) finding a place to legally ride them is not easy.  Right now there is an access battle going on between human-powered off-road bicycle enthusiasts and electric-assist off-road bicycle riders (who don't have the same ability to pedal up and down dirt trails open to the public) over who can use public open space trails.  It seems very likely to me that all-electric dirt bikes would have even more problems finding legal riding areas near some urban areas.

In my area, hikers, equestrians, mountain bikers and now electric motor-assisted bicycle riders are all fighting over limited public trails and trying to keep the other groups out of "their" nature experience.  To illustrate how weird things can get, I know of one public trail in the town of Woodside that has a sign saying hikers are prohibited, only equestrians allowed.  ???
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HadesOmega

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2019, 09:28:21 PM »
When I get my Sur Ron I plan to register is an OHV vehicle and get a green sticker for it.  Then I can ride it at all the offroad parks I take my dirt bike to.  It would be sweet to ride mountain bike trails with it but I don't see that happening.  The bay area has very limited places to ride offroad unfortunately. 

That is kind of why I decided to build an electric mountain bike many years ago was so I could ride on the trails with something motorized.  I honestly don't see any problem with electric bikes on trails, people should all learn to just share the trails but there are some irresponsible people out there that would just go ripping through the trails and they don't police the trails that well.  =(
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Richard230

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2019, 05:04:48 PM »
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Richard230

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2019, 09:20:59 AM »
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Ultratoad

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2019, 11:03:51 AM »
I always enjoy Revzilla reviews....  I think they are pretty spot on....  Why would anyone buy the Harley when they could buy a Zero that has far superior performance for $10K less ????  This thing is gonna go down in flames !!!!
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Shinysideup

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2019, 05:13:30 PM »
Quote from: Ultratoad on January 13, 2019, 11:03:51 AM
I always enjoy Revzilla reviews....  I think they are pretty spot on....  Why would anyone buy the Harley when they could buy a Zero that has far superior performance for $10K less ????  This thing is gonna go down in flames !!!!

Because a Zero is zero in those that drool over the HD mystique. Though I'm not sure even those folks would go for a bike with no potato-potato, even if it carries the bar and shield.
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HadesOmega

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 03:56:42 AM »
Quote
So what is the LiveWire, exactly? A next-gen electric motorcycle with a massive early adopter tax? The start of a new era for Harley-Davidson? A road to nowhere that took four and a half years to get from prototype to market? And what does this mean for the additional electric two-wheelers on the way?

I have no idea, and I don’t have $29,799 to find out. If you do, preorder is available now.

That closing statement pretty much sums it all up =P  I like how he mentioned the Brammo and how it get's 60% of its advertised range.  I don't think Victory ever listed the official range of the Empulse TT but somewhere I heard it was 140 miles, I think their 60% figure is right because that about what I get =P

I'm surprised they don't mention the Energica.  Its roughly the same price (well less) and has Level 3 charging and it's probably faster.  And well they have a MotoGP bike...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 03:59:10 AM by HadesOmega »
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Richard230

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2019, 10:03:09 AM »
The LiveWire top speed has recently been reported as being 110 mph.  So faster than an Empulse, but slower than the very fast Energica models, although you won't go far at their top speed of between 125 and 150 mph. My guess is that the LiveWire will turn out to have a battery rated at around 9 KWh. 

I also understand that H-D is reporting that the LiveWire's weight is around 470 pounds. About the same as my 2018 Zero S with Power Tank - and a lot less than the 600+ pounds of the Energicas. Considering that the LiveWire seems to have quite a bit of extra metal on the bike, compared with the Zero design, I figure that further limits the power density of the battery pack hidden behind that big finned cover.  And don't forget that the battery pack seems to be air cooled from forward-facing vents, which would indicate to me that there is space between the individual (likely cylindrical) cells that would further reduce the density of the power of the battery design, compared with Zero's pouch cells.

I note that H-D continues to emphasize that it is designed for "urban" travel and that the advertised range was determined using the motorcycle manufacturer's industry standard "city cycle" (designed to achieve the longest range possible from a lithium battery powered motorcycle). So I see the LiveWire as being designed for their typical bar-hopping customer and not for riding to Sturgis.  ::)

I am also going to go out on a limb here by predicting that one of the first LiveWires to be sold will be bought by Jay Leno - probably at a discount.  ;)
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Brammofan

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2019, 10:13:28 AM »
Quote from: Richard230 on January 14, 2019, 10:03:09 AM
. So I see the LiveWire as being designed for their typical bar-hopping customer and not for riding to Sturgis.  ::)

Oh Richard, you are a treasure!  Got a belly laugh from me.
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Brammofan

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2019, 08:47:13 PM »
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Ultratoad

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2019, 10:48:27 PM »
Wow....  that was strong....  Yet I really can't point to any inaccuracies....  I think they like the Zero though !!!!
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Richard230

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2019, 09:46:39 AM »
Quote from: Brammofan on January 14, 2019, 08:47:13 PM
Motley Fool (investment site) sure doesn't like the Livewire.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/01/14/no-juice-for-harley-davidsons-turnaround-livewire.aspx

Ouch. That had to hurt the brains in H-D that hooked their star to the LiveWire program.  My guess is that H-D will sell a few LiveWires later this year, to the tune of the adoring general TV and news magazine press and then, when the slow sales really start to tapper off, they will drop the price down to around $20K or lower and likely take a hit on the bike's profitability.  Sound familiar to anyone here?   ;)
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Ultratoad

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Re: H-D LiveWire at EICMA
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2019, 11:06:12 AM »
Yeah it does !!!!  I have one sitting in the garage....  They call it a Victory Empulse TT !!!!  The good news is I still love it and haven't had any problems....  Still think Victory could have made a go of it....  I think Brammo was on the right track....
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