Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse => Topic started by: FreepZ on February 20, 2013, 10:04:48 AM
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I'm only 50 miles away from 600, which is the end of the break in period, so I'll probably be doing an oil change. Unfortunately, the manual for my Empulse is about 75 miles away. Would anybody out there be able to take a picture of the pages of the manual that refer to changing the oil and either post them here, or email them to me? (See my profile (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=745) for my email address).
Thanks.
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I got the manual from the dealer, but now I have a question.
The manual says that the oil that I should use is:
Synthetic 10W-30 API GL-1 Motorcycle oil, (wet clutch approved)
At Autozone, I was able to find 10W-30 API SN/SM/SL, and there is something called GL-5, but that's very thick oil.
I was unable to find anything that read: API GL-1.
Has anybody changed their oil? What did you use?
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Another question... The manual as the torque specifications for what seems to be just about every bolt on the bike. What it doesn't have is the torque specifications of the three bolts that need to be undone and redone for an oil change (see manual page 24).
Specifically:
- Oil fill plug
- Oil check hole
- Oil drain plug
Hopefully Revision 3 of the manual will have that information.
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Yep, you definitely don't want GL-5. Edit: or maybe not, see FreepZ's post below
From wiki:
API GL-1. Oils for light conditions. They consist of base oils without additives. Sometimes they contain small amounts of antioxidizing additives, corrosion inhibitors, depressants and antifoam additives. API GL-1 oils are designed for spiral-bevel, worm gears and manual transmissions without synchronizers in trucks and farming machines.
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API GL-5. Oils for severe conditions. They contain up to 6.5% effective anti-scuffing additives. The general application of oils in this class are for hypoid gears having significant displacement of axes, generally non limited-slip differentials. They are recommended as universal oils to all other units of mechanical transmission (except synchronized gearboxes specifying GL-4). Some GL-5 oils in this class, which have special approval of vehicle manufacturers, can be used in synchronized manual gearboxes. API GL-5 oils can be used in limited slip differentials only if they correspond to the requirements of specification MIL-L-2105D or ZF TE-ML-05. In this case the designation of class will be another, for example API GL-5+ or API GL-5 LS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil)
I can't find anything at autozone or o'reillys that looks appropriate for GL-1. You may have to special order it.
For example:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mct.aspx?zo=515729 (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mct.aspx?zo=515729)
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My Aprilia RS50 said to use 10w-40 GL4 oil in its transmission. I never could find GL4 transmission oil, only GL5. So my solution was to use a 10w-40 motorcycle transmission oil that I found at a dirt bike shop that catered to two-stroke motorcycles with (obviously) separate transmissions and oiled clutches. That seemed like a reasonable solution and that type of oil is easy to find. In any case, the Aprilia's transmission worked well with that oil (I think I used Belray) and the transmission and its wet clutch certainly outlasted the engine. ;)
I have been reading the back of oil bottles for years and I have never seen an oil rated GL1, 2 or 3. What I have always heard is that the higher classification numbers meet the specification requirements of all of the lower classification numbers and all you have to do is find the correct weight oil. If this is true, a 10w-40 GL5 rated oil should be OK.
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I'll be using full synthetic MC oil. As long as it is not labeled "energy efficient" or have any friction modifiers, it should be fine.
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I think that "GL-1" is obsolete.
From this website:
http://www.lubrizol.com/DrivelineAdditives/AutomotiveGearOil/GL5.html (http://www.lubrizol.com/DrivelineAdditives/AutomotiveGearOil/GL5.html)
API Categories GL-1, GL-2, GL-3 and GL-6 were declared inactive by SAE Technical Committee 3 in 1995, even though oils may be marketed with these designations. Similarly, ASTM does not plan to maintain the performance tests associated with these categories, as in a number of cases these tests can no longer be run because parts or test installations are not available.
It seems to me that I should be able to ignore the GL-1 part, just get some good synthetic SAE 10W-30 oil and call it a day. Is there really a difference if the can says "motorcycle" on it?
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I don't think GL4 or 5 oil needs to be motorcycle-specific. It just is easier to find the correct weight (10w-30 or 10w-40) GL-rated oil in a motorcycle shop than in an auto accessory store, which will typically have 75w-90, 75w-140, or 80w-90 weight gear oils.
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I'm only 50 miles away from 600, which is the end of the break in period, so I'll probably be doing an oil change. Unfortunately, the manual for my Empulse is about 75 miles away. Would anybody out there be able to take a picture of the pages of the manual that refer to changing the oil and either post them here, or email them to me? (See my profile (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=745) for my email address).
Thanks.
Quick question - are you doing the oil change now with the manual "75 miles away" because you are worried about driving those 75 miles and doing the oil change late?
Someone more familiar with engine break-in please feel free to correct me, but I wouldn't worry about 25 or 50 miles one way or the other. The first oil change is to get rid of the debris that happens early on in the life of the transmission so you've likely been riding around for around 600 miles with most of that debris anyway. It's important to get rid of it, and I'd probably wait to "open her up" in terms of RPMs until after the oil change, but I wouldn't sweat the exact timing like that. My 600 mile change was done 40 miles early because that was when it was convenient to do (the dealer had to work on something that required draining the oil so they just did the change and told me I was out of break-in despite the early mileage), but 25 miles late shouldn't be an issue since most of the debris was probably created in the first 100 to 200 miles.
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i have the manual as a PDF if you need it...
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Hopefully the finalized manual will have the oil drain bolt torque omission, er, plugged. Adam from Brammo has specified 25 Nm for the oil drain bolt. 15 Nm for the fill plug, and 11 Nm for the oil check bolt.
Good practice: Before you remove the drain plug, look carefully for any weepage which may indicate a bad seal.
I was amazed at the amount of debris on the magnetic bolt at the 600 mile change. Lots of steel bits that I was surely glad the magnet caught.
I found the oil fill plug difficult to pour into and so used the breather hose on the left side of the bike after removing its vented plug by releasing the hose clamp. Way EZ.
The oil check hole is too small to really look into (a sight glass would have been nice). I just poured the bulk of the quart in and then poured slowly until oil started running out the check hole.
*** Note that this level is supposed to be checked while the bike is on the SIDE stand.
As to oil, I'd definitely use a full synthetic from a motorcycle shop, and an oil that's approved for a wet clutch. Automotive oils have a different additive package, IIRC. I ended up with a Honda mc engine oil that I'm sure will work just fine, as the shifting improved after the change.
PS: Here's the entries I used for my garage-wall spreadsheet (use at your own risk):
Bolt Location Wrench Size Torque
Chain Tensioners 13 mm x2 21.4 Nm
Frame savers front (10 mm) 8 mm hex 36 Nm
Frame savers rear (8 mm) 6 mm hex 21 Nm
Oil Check Bolt 5 mm hex 11 Nm
Oil Drain Plug 17 mm 25 Nm
Oil Fill Fill Plug 14 mm 15 Nm
Oil vent hose clamp 8 mm just snug
Rear Axle 27 mm 55 Nm
Seat release 5 mm hex 6.7 Nm
Note: Above edited 2/28 with corrected values.
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@7racer: I now have the PDF too. I would like to put it up on the wiki, but I would need to get permission from Brammo first.
@flar: My mechanic told me the same thing. A few extra miles isn't going to be a problem. I just didn't want to have to ride all the way to Orlando if I didn't need to.
@Shinysideup: Thanks for all the advice.
I have to say, I'm curious about how the decisions were made about that transmission. Why a seep hole rather than a window? How did the fill hole end up in such an inaccessible place?
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I found the oil fill plug difficult to pour into and so used the breather hose on the left side of the bike after removing its vented plug by releasing the hose clamp. Way EZ.
I was a little bit confused about what you were talking about with the breather hose, until I looked and saw:
(http://freepz.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/oilbreather.jpg)
It's even asking to have oil poured in there!
I wonder why the manual wants us to use the oil fill hole when it is more of a hassle to access than that nifty side hose. Will the hose be damaged by loosening and tightening the hose clamp every 3k miles?
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I think this thread is screaming for some official service videos from Brammo. Suspension setup, oil change, chain tensioning, etc. But then again...there might be a conflict of interest since this a service that dealers might offer. Whatdya think, Brammo?
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I have a few random comments about the gearbox oil change:
If it was me, I would change the oil at around 100 miles and then again at 600 miles. By 100 miles most of the wear inside the transmission should have already occurred and you might as well get that break-in debris out of the works as soon as possible.
That comment about finding a lot of ferrous debris on the drain plug magnet is worrisome. I have been changing engine sump and gearbox oils for many years and it has been at least 20 years since I have seen any noticeable metal debris stuck to a drain plug - even at the first oil change. Even years ago (when machining and gear metals were not as good as they are now), I would only notice some metal whiskers sticking up from the magnet.
It does look like the Amsoil product linked above by Protomech meets Brammo's specifications. Amsoil has a very good reputation and would seem to be an excellent choice as a transmission lubricant. However, if Amsoil is not available, I think I would also consider any name-brand motorcycle transmission product that is designed for use in a transmission with a wet clutch, as found in two stroke engine. Most engine oils contain additional additives that are not needed to lubricate a transmission that does not have to deal with a lot of heat, acids and other contaminates, which are the result of internal combustion.
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Will the hose be damaged by loosening and tightening the hose clamp every 3k miles?
IMHO, nope.
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Looks like Amsoil might be the only gear oil out there that's 100% compliant. I figure I'll go ahead and order some now in case I want to change it at 100 and 600 miles. How many quarts does it call for? Loads of metal on a drain plug in an unfiltered system make me a little nervous. Guess I'll try not to flick it from one side to the next through any chicanes for a while. :)
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I found the oil fill plug difficult to pour into and so used the breather hose on the left side of the bike after removing its vented plug by releasing the hose clamp. Way EZ.
So, I was thinking to myself. I said, "Myself, what's he talking about? That oil fill hole is out in the open, plain as day, with a big red cap on it, what could be easier than that?" Then I saw Freep's reply and myself answered, "Myself, you do realize that's not the oil fill hole you're looking at, right?"
Oooohhhhhh...
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How many quarts does it call for?
The manual says "Oil capacity - Oil should be filled to the point where it reaches the Check/Seep hole while the bike is on the side stand. About 1.0L of Synthetic 10W-30 API GL-1 Motorcycle oil, (wet clutch approved)".
It sounds like a quart would not be enough since a liter is larger, but Shiny's tale mentions that he got it to run out the seep hole with just a quart so their "about 1.0L" must be an over-estimate...
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It sounds like a quart would not be enough since a liter is larger, but Shiny's tale mentions that he got it to run out the seep hole with just a quart so their "about 1.0L" must be an over-estimate...
Thanks, I missed that earlier. I'm glad I checked on the capacity before buying. I was going to order a case, but 12 quarts would have lasted a LONG time. :)
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I was going to order a case, but 12 quarts would have lasted a LONG time. :)
That just tells me that you're not riding enough! ;)
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i think videos from Brammo would be great!
I would love to tune the suspension a bit more for my weight.
About the oil change, I just hit 160 and making me think to do a quick drain and change.
After reading this thread I wonder why Brammo choose such a weird oil? I guess what is the stock oil then that is used and why can't we get it?
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Hi BrammoForum,
For my first forum entry I will see if I can help answer some questions about changing the oil in your Empulse.
Let's talk about oil. We run AmsOil - Synthetic Motorcycle Oil: SAE 10W-30 (wet clutch approved) in all bikes that come off the line. Most Synthetic 4-Stroke motorcycle oils that are "wet clutch" approved will work in your Empulse. I am working on a specific list of alternate oils that we would recommend. As soon as that is done I will post it here.
Also, if the oil change is done properly (warm gear box just after a ride, and bike on the side stand - not a rear wheel stand) it will hold about 1.1L to 1.15L. I think the Owner's Manual says 1.0L. This has been updated in the official Owner's Manual which is almost done and will be sent to each one of you directly. When you are adding oil, filling via the breather tube is perfectly acceptable. Add the oil to a point where it is visible or comes out of the seep hole on the side of the clutch cover.
On a side note – when you are changing your oil, remember that a lot of the stuff stuck to the drain plug magnet is from the wet clutch.
I hope this helps and let me know if you have any additional questions.
Happy Riding!
Adam
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Adam! thank you so much for the post!
also, will the new manual come with any instructions for suspension adjustment? If not do you have any recommendations for the amount of sag to set per rider weight?
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I've just finished writing a wiki page about changing the oil.
http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Empulse_Oil_Change (http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Empulse_Oil_Change)
I would appreciate it if anybody who has done an oil change could check to make sure that I didn't mess anything up.
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Very nice...and thorough....well done.
I wonder, can we add photos to the wiki page? would be nice to show close up of the bits and pieces...
gavin
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I think the 43 NM torque value for the oil drain plug may be a little high - depending on the material that the sump is made of and how the plug threads are designed. BMW's Funduro suffered a number of stripped oil drain bolts (where the part that stripped was the female threads in the sump) when tightened to the recommended 40 NM. If it was me, until I heard otherwise from Brammo, I think I would tighten the sump plug to 30 NM. Without the transmission being subject to much in the way of heating and vibration cycles, I don't think there is much chance of the plug loosening.
Does the plug use a crush washer? I can't recall reading anything in the oil drain instructions about renewing a sealing washer, which is something that you typically do for most oil drain bolt installations. Besides helping to prevent any oil leakage, a new washer might (depending upon its design) provide some tension on the bolt to act a little like a lock-washer.
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I agree that 43 Nm is high (the Ninja 500, which also uses a 17 mm drain plug, requires 30 Nm), but that's the value that Shinysideup says he used.
To get the actual correct torque value, I was going to try to use my torque wrench to loosen the plug, although I don't know if that would produce a correct measurement. I'm not going to do that until I have the right oil (which I had to special order, since nobody seems to carry that).
The correct way to get that value is to ask the manufacturer. I was hoping that somebody over there would read this thread (which the have) and then give the correct torque values (which they have not... yet).
I have no idea what torque to use on the oil fill plug. I set my wrench to the lowest setting (13 Nm) and that was still too high.
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I ended up purchasing this since there is a harbor freight close by.
http://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-66418.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-66418.html)
still waiting for my oil to arrive but will report back on how it goes. That fill spot is in a tight spot!
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Using your torque wrench to check for tightening torque when loosening the bolt will not work. Because of static friction, the loosening torque will be much greater than the correct tightening torque.
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http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-Performance-Synthetic-Motorcycle/dp/B000E2B292/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361662588&sr=8-1&keywords=10w+30+motorcycle+oil (http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-Performance-Synthetic-Motorcycle/dp/B000E2B292/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361662588&sr=8-1&keywords=10w+30+motorcycle+oil)
Synth motorcycle oil...wet clutch approved. If you're an Amazon Prime customer, like me, free 2 day shipping and no tax...
I'm going to order some now for when I get my Empulse (I hope to get to 600 miles the first week I have it :) )
Gavin
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damn! nice find! When I search Royal Purple all I could find was 20-50! ordering now!
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Thanks for finding that Gavin. I've ordered a couple of quarts for my oil change.
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No problem :)
I ordered some too...and don't even have a bike yet...
I halfway fear Brian or Adam coming here and telling me I picked the wrong oil :(
Gavin
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I think the 43 NM torque value for the oil drain plug may be a little high...
Does the plug use a crush washer?
Yep, Adam chimed in on another thread with the missing Brammo torque value for the oil drain bolt: 25 Nm.
There is a crush washer. Don't have to change those every time, but they're cheap enough that I always do.
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Just to close out this thread, the correct torque values for the transmission were posted on a different thread:
Here are the torque specs need for changing your oil.
• Oil Drain Plug – 25Nm
• Oil Fill Plug – 15Nm
• Oil Check Screw – 11Nm
In a previous post I said that the oil capacity is about 1.15L when in fact you should only use about 1.0L when changing you oil. Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Also, info about the oil change is on the wiki:
http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Empulse_Oil_Change (http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Empulse_Oil_Change)
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I did my first Empulse Oil Change! w00t!
From that experience, I've updated the wiki page (with picture too).
http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Empulse_Oil_Change (http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Empulse_Oil_Change)
I'll be curious to know what the metal particles collected on the magnetic drain plug will look like the next time I change my oil. There was about 2 grams of metal on there. :o
Note that I waited until 963 miles before I could change the oil (since it took me a while to get that 10W-30 stuff), so it's possible that my oil was particularly bad.
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Very nicely done, FreepZ.
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I'll be curious to know what the metal particles collected on the magnetic drain plug will look like the next time I change my oil. There was about 2 grams of metal on there. :o
Note that I waited until 963 miles before I could change the oil (since it took me a while to get that 10W-30 stuff), so it's possible that my oil was particularly bad.
This isn't a sign of anything bad. Most of the metal particles comes from the wear of your metallic clutch plates, which share the same oil with the rest of the gearbox.
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And there's no oil filter to clean that up before you see it during draining!
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Well done, Sir!
You may want to add in something (and a picture!) about wearing gloves: dirty oil is absorbed through the skin and is a known carcinogen. At least that's what it says on the side of my oil bottles. According to the EPA: Exposure to very high levels of used oil can cause skin rashes, headaches and tremors. Our tranny oil probably isn't "very high level" but as far as cancer goes: "zero tolerance" agrees with me.
Nitrile gloves are a good alternative for those who have (or want to prevent) an allergy to latex. They are also slightly more durable.
Polyurethane gloves are cheaper and more flimsy.
Heavy butyl rubber chemical gloves work, but I wouldn't want to do brain surgery with them on! These are best if you're working with solvents. Nitrile and latex gloves will not stand up to acetone and many other solvents. But then, I don't want to breathing solvents either.
I remember the old days when I used to wash out air cleaners in a bucket of gasoline with my bare hands. Didn't affect me. Didn't affect affect me. Didn't affect me me me.
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I just did this oil change at 250 miles. I know way early.
Anyways, I would suggest that everyone fill from that breather tube. It is a royal PITA to get to the fill spot, even with that harbor freight gizmo (didn't work at all).
I know Brammobrian stated that the amount of particles where normal so I fear that when I post these pictures there will be a run on early oil changes. But here you can see what it looks like after 250 miles. And what it looks like mostly cleaned off.
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I have never seen that much metallic debris during my 50 years of changing engine oil and separate transmission oil. I don't see how that ferrous material could come from the clutch, unless the clutch uses steel friction plates, instead of the more typical cork-type material.
I was just reading an article in the January issue of Sport Aviation that begins on page 30 and discusses metallic debris found in the oil of private aircraft engines. It shows a photo of 1/4 oz of metal debris (which looks just like your photo) on page 33 that if found in the oil filter of a Lycoming aircraft engine would require the engine to be disassembled and inspected for severe wear and possible rebuild.
If it was me, I would be changing oil every few hundred miles until the debris goes away. If that stuff got into the transmission's bearings, it couldn't be a good thing.
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While that is a lot of debris, I'm not really worried for the following reasons:
- I've never owned a bike without an oil filter and I suspect that oil filters catch as much or more debris during break-ing.
- In this transmission, debris should settle as sediment pretty well and is not likely to circulate since the oil is not pumped but rather picked up by gears.
- There are no crank bearings or piston rings in this application, and those are the surfaces that I worry about most in an ICE engine.
- I tend to not worry until I see chunks.
Regardless of my positive thinking, it was my intention to change the oil well before 600. The miles are going by pretty fast though, so chances are I'll change it this weekend with maybe 650 on the clock. If I find anything different, I'll post up pics.
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The wiki page looks great...thanks!!
Gavin
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The majority of the motorcycles that I have owned over the years did not have an oil filter. That included a number of early Japanese motorcycles, as well as having owned 10 two-stoke motorcycles with separate, non-filtered, transmissions and wet clutches (everything from my 1963 Yamaha YD3 to my 2003 Aprilia RS50). My 1971 Triumph Bonneville and five BMW boxers that I owned and serviced, also had completely separate gearboxes with splash lubrication and no filters. I never saw that type of metal swarf when draining the oil - and I used to inspect the drained oil closely for any visible impurities. So I don't know what is going on. It just doesn't look good to me.
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Well, Richard, with the exception of the Aprilia, none of those bikes are from Italy. Heck, we're lucky we're not seeing cigarette butts in the oil! ::)
Don't all BMW boxers have dry clutches?
I too was surprised at the amount of metal. And thanks for teaching me a new word: swarf.
I'll worry if there's that much debris on my next oil change. Meanwhile, I'm taking solace in Brian's reassurances. And in the fact that my transmission is still working well at 2K miles, with plenty of warranty left.
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Not all BMW's have dry clutches, just the boxer twins do. And the new boxer design now has replaced the single-plate dry clutch and separate gearbox with a integrated, multi-plate oiled clutch, transmission and engine slump, all lubed by the same oil. It sure makes the clutch easier to replace as it is now located at the front of the engine, under a cover where the alternator used to be.
However, thinking about it last night, the Empulse's transmission is best compared with the one on most two-stroke IC engines. All of those use a separate transmission, with a multi-plate oiled clutch, all lubed by the same oil with splash lubrication and no filter. So you would think that the performance, servicing and reliability would be similar to a two-stroke transmission.
Unless, the Empulse has a lot more torque than any other two-stroke motor has seen in a long time. That could be an issue. As for Italian manufacturing goes, I had no problems with my Aprilia's transmission or clutch - just rings, piston circlips and eventually connecting rods breaking. :o
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However, thinking about it last night, the Empulse's transmission is best compared with the one on most two-stroke IC engines. All of those use a separate transmission, with a multi-plate oiled clutch, all lubed by the same oil with splash lubrication and no filter. So you would think that the performance, servicing and reliability would be similar to a two-stroke transmission.
Correct. I don't know if you are insinuating a negative or positive from this comment, but from my perspective, this gearbox, like that of a 2-stroke ICE, is relatively simple design, but dead reliable and abuse tolerant. It is also incredibly compact and also very light weight. The service intervals indicated are correct to keep the transmission running well. The break-in period oil change should be the dirtiest.
Again - the debris on the drain plug shown is from the metallic fibers in the clutch and is comparable to what you would find changing the oil on a 2-stroke bike with these kind of clutch plates. If you put on a pair of rubber gloves and sift through the material, you can convince yourself that there is no actual metal "chunks" or "chips" indicative of excessive wear. The oil will become cleaner on successive oil changes and there will be somewhat less debris, but it will never be perfectly clean when you change it, owing to the contamination from the clutch. If the clutch fiber material bothers you, then we will be offering a high-performance Kevlar plate clutch kit from Hinson for the TTX bike that can be dropped in, which would have the additional benefit of keeping the oil cleaner (if that's your goal).
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However, thinking about it last night, the Empulse's transmission ,,,
The oil will become cleaner on successive oil changes and there will be somewhat less debris, but it will never be perfectly clean when you change it, owing to the contamination from the clutch. If the clutch fiber material bothers you, then we will be offering a high-performance Kevlar plate clutch kit from Hinson for the TTX bike that can be dropped in, which would have the additional benefit of keeping the oil cleaner (if that's your goal).
Ohhhhhhh,, (drool) ,,,, Kevlar ,,,,,,
I'd like to sign up for that clutch plate when the time comes to change it out,,,, ;D
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Finally hit 600 miles today, so I changed the oil this evening. My plug looked about the same. The interesting thing was that the buildup on the magnet consisted of a slush of very fine particles and oil. There really was no substantial mass to it and it didn't feel gritty at all because of all of the oil soaked up into it. I'm officially unconcerned about it now.
On another note...I can't wait for Sport Mode tomorrow!
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Finally hit 600 miles today, so I changed the oil this evening. My plug looked about the same. The interesting thing was that the buildup on the magnet consisted of a slush of very fine particles and oil. There really was no substantial mass to it and it didn't feel gritty at all because of all of the oil soaked up into it. I'm officially unconcerned about it now.
On another note...I can't wait for Sport Mode tomorrow!
[/quote
;D cool! E are just about on the same place then, I hit 605 Thursday, & gonna do oil change tomorrow ,,,
Got my Amsoil finally,,, have fun in sport mode!!!!
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On another note...I can't wait for Sport Mode tomorrow!
[/quote
;D cool! E are just about on the same place then, I hit 605 Thursday, & gonna do oil change tomorrow ,,,
Got my Amsoil finally,,, have fun in sport mode!!!!
Well, rainy days and getting ready for a trip, I'm FINALLY doing my oil,,
In the WIKI, it says drive around to get the oil heated up,, since we got a motor temp gauge,, (just scroll the button till we get there,,,) what temp should we get to to be ready (more viscous) for the oil change,,
I know I e hit 115 degrees, but what is really good enough ,,,
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Cat, your quotes are showing up weird. Make sure you're typing the reponse before the first bracket of the "quote" code or after the last bracket of the "/quote" code
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Cat, your quotes are showing up weird. Make sure you're typing the reponse before the first bracket of the "quote" code or after the last bracket of the "/quote" code
This better? I'm using iPhone,, should be no excuse right??? 🙀🙀🙀
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Yeah. I have the same issue with tapatalk on my android.
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In the WIKI, it says drive around to get the oil heated up,, since we got a motor temp gauge,, (just scroll the button till we get there,,,) what temp should we get to to be ready (more viscous) for the oil change,,
I know I e hit 115 degrees, but what is really good enough ,,,
I never considered just running the motor with the bike in neutral to warm up the oil. That would probably work, but not be as much fun as riding the bike! ;)
The temperature reading on the dash is for the motor, not the transmission or the oil. In a worst case example, you could could be lugging uphill at a slow speed and a high gear, getting the motor really hot, while the transmission oil could be quite cool.
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Is it possible you are over-thinking the oil temp issue?
I've always changed my oil after coming home from a ride. Or, if the bike's cold when I want to service it, I just ride around for about 10 minutes to warm things up.
Remember, unless racing, this oil is not going to get very hot compared to ICE crankcase oil, and all you want to accomplish is to let the viscosity thin a bit so it will run off the gears efficiently. If a little more is left behind clinging to the gears, I don't think it's mission critical. ::)
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Well, the next person to drain their oil should go for a ride and then measure the temperature of the oil with a meat thermometer (or other appropriate device) just after it hits the pot. If it is not much above ambient air temperature, then letting the bike sit for a while might actually be better than riding it around, as that would give the oil a little more time to drain off of the gears and into whatever the transmission uses for a sump.
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Sorry to dig up an old thread, but my dealer has informed me that I (and everyone else that followed the method in this thread, the Brammo Wiki, and the manual) have been doing my oil changes incorrectly. In my last thread where my bike left me stranded, I mentioned that I had an oil leak that appeared to be coming from the breather tube. The dealer doing the recall said I had about 10 oz too much oil, and with the ultra cold temps the extra thick oil was working it's way out of the weakest seal - the breather tube. That is weird because I ran out of oil before I had any coming out of the level hole during my last change 2,600 miles ago (I put a full quart in, so didn't think it would be a problem). Of course I had the bike on the side stand since the manual specifically states that "The transmission should be filled with the Empulse standing on level ground and supported by the kickstand."
Apparently the correct way to fill the bike is with the bike on a center/race stand. I told my dealer to forward the e-mail from Brammo confirming that the manual is incorrect and to fill and check level with the bike centered, and I'll save it as a pic and upload it to the forum once I get a copy (and try to change the wiki, but no promises).
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So you're saying a quart could be as much as 10 oz too much? That's surprising. I put a quart in at 600 and called it good.
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Here is the e-mail chain...So fill until oil comes out of the site screw with it on the side stand, on a center stand, or only put in 1 liter? Obviously you can see that I had way more than 1L in the transmission, which makes me wonder whether water is getting in...
(http://brammoforum.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=406)
(http://brammoforum.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=404)
(http://brammoforum.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=405)
Sorry for the multiple pics...apparently converting a multiple page .pdf to .jpg isn't so easy on a mac.
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I ran into a similar issue.
For my first oil change I followed the manuel's instructions, filled it on the side stand and waited for the oil to seep out of the check hole. At 1 liter no seeping......poured in a little more and waited..... a little more..... and by the time the oil was seeping I was at about a liter and a half!! It didn't feel right as the book states it should take about 1 liter. I pushed the bike upright slightly and drained some oil out but It was probably still a little too full.
For the next oil change I poured in the entire 1 liter bottle and that was it!
I thought the seep hole in combination with the bike on the side stand was an odd idea. Not only is it difficult to find ground that is truly level but the angle that the bike leans is also dependent on how you set the bike on the stand.
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When I talked to Adam, he said just drain and put a quart back in. You'll be fine. A quart is close enough to a liter.
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Just an update on the swarf phenomenon: I just did my 12K oil change and there was a tiny amount of soft debris on the magnet in the drain plug. It just covered the end of the magnet surface and projected up maybe 1/2 of a mm. Looks like things have broken in.
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I just did my 3K oil change today. It was definitely time, yuck! Looks like it had 1 quart installed before as it did not quite refill my 1L bottle with waste oil. It looked almost like silver paint when it was draining into the pan. Some fine metal fuzz on the drain plug, but no worse than I expected. This also gave me a chance to clean off underside of my bike which had a bit of chain cast off spatter on things.
Thank you guys for your previous experience, using the vent tube seemed to work out pretty well compared to trying to use the fill hole. Had I just gone off the manual, I would have most likely overfilled trying to use the indicator hole while on the side stand. That seemed really odd, but that how I had interpreted the manual.
On my test ride following the oil change, I noticed it was a bit quieter and the clutch felt smoother.