Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse => Topic started by: frodus on February 08, 2013, 01:27:38 PM
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Well, I took the plunge and made my down payment for a Brammo Empulse R. Waiting on financing paperwork from my bank to finalize early next week.
I decided to get "White Noise"..... Can't wait to get it!
(http://brammofan.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/177145_10150876860255443_504930854_o.jpg)
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Congrats, Travis! Man...I am so excited for you to get your hands on one of these. :D
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Me too.
Finally decided that my project had stagnated and that selling my eVFR and my SV650 would allow me to put a sizeable amount towards a new bike.... so that's exactly what I did.
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That white is SO HAWT! Congrats!
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Frodus, do you know which dealer you would be using? I didn't think there were any yet in the Northwest.
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Well, my situation is a bit different. Brammo said they'd let me know if any engineering/marketing bikes came available. One came available last week and Brammo extended an offer to me, which I accepted. That's all I can divulge per our agreement.... and it sounds like it was a one-time thing.
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I assume this means you can use Sport mode up to max RPM right away : )
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Oh yeah! Completely forgot about that! This vehicle has ~500 miles on it.... but I'll probably be in economy for a while. Still somewhat of a beginner motorcyclist (less than 50 rides).
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Cool...have fun and ride safe.
I would check with Brammo about the break in period...it still might be 600 miles as most "marketing"/ "test" bikes are refit with new parts when sold to customers.
Gavin
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I'll ask, good point.
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That is great news, Frodus. So when are you going to tell the Elmoto crowd about your new bike? The last time you brought the subject up of buying a factory-built electric motorcycle, you could hear the groans. ;)
The fact that you are getting a pre-production prototype is really cool. :)
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I have stated suck in the "Today, I..." thread. Should I start a new thread? I was having issues with tapatalk on my phone so I couldn't post much.
Also, It's not a prototype, it's a production bike, just one of the earlier ones that they used for test/marketing.
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Brian said I'll be OK to go into sport mode, although I'll likely go ahead and get used to the bike in economy mode.
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If all goes well, I should have mine by the end of the weekend.
I want to personally thank Brian, Ken, Adam, Adrian and Jake at Brammo and my loan officer Joshua at Numerica CU.
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congrats. have fun. ride safe. show the bike off to everybody :)
Gavin
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HOLY SHIT that was fun!
Brian had to do some stuff up here in Portland so he brought my bike with him. He gave me a very detailed overview of the bike, showed me the diagnostic ports, gave me my bag-o-goodies, showed me the new charger (with Brammo Logo) and handed me the keys.
I rode up to this breakfast place near me so we could grab a bite to eat and chat. The ride over.... well, All I can say is WOW. I still have a grin on my face. This thing outperforms my SV650 in my opinion (butt dyno). I barely noticed any of the transmission lash. I figured out how to reduce/eliminate it by just easing the throttle a bit when I'm at a stop until I feel the gears push the bike ever so slightly. Power shifting through the gears is easy and I only use the clutch to downshift. As a beginner, it was simple and easy to get on the bike and start riding. I felt completely comfortable.
It rides smoothly, shifting is FUN and I see why it's great.... I can keep the motor RPM's wherever I want them, I could haul a passenger and get the same performance by wisely choosing my gear and If I wanted, I could just accelerate like a bat outta hell in first gear up to about 45-50mph.
Breakfast was fun.... we chatted about the bike, racing, friends we have in common and their plans for expanding the dealer/service network.
It was a very pleasant experience from a buyers point of view.
So It's downstairs charging on the L1 charger that Leviton (my Employer) gave me. I'll probably take that one to work and store it there for charging, and leave the Brammo charger here at home.
I'll be doing a bit of riding today. Gotta do some chores around the house first, but then I'll go out with a buddy of mine and take a nice ride.
Final words: Damn this bike is fun
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Holy shit I'm jealous!!
Sounds great...can you imagine, getting your bike deliveried and getting riding advise from the lead designer?!?!
Hey Brian, ever been to New Mexico? :)
Have a blast and ride it like you stole it
Gavin
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The white Empulse in the photo you posted seems to have a different dashboard, or is the screen of my tablet playing tricks with my eyes?
Is that your bike in the photo?
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Nah its just some card to protect it.
And yah that is mine.
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Final words: Damn this bike is fun
I got a contact grin from reading your post, remembering my first day on the Empulse. Guess what, the fun continues to build and the grin gets bigger. I'm hitting 2K miles and still learning, and enjoying.
Congratulations and report back on your experience after you turn on Sport mode for a day of riding!
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Thanks for explaining. And the more I see the Empulse in white the better looking it becomes!
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Congratulations, Travis. Ride it in good health.
I'm a little bit jealous, especially about the shakedown with Brian. :)
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Rock on dude! ;D
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Some new pics:
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-9.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-3.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-4.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-8.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-7.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-1.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-6.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-2.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_empulse-5.jpg)
I rode about 40 miles on Saturday with my buddy on some twisties nearby my house. It was such a blast. The bike takes off when I want it to, the transmission is easy to power shift (Brian showed me how best to do that). I only really use the clutch to downshift. It was nice not having the loud hum of the exhaust right behind me. I could hear my buddy behind me in my old SV650 (He bought it).
Sunday I only got about 10 miles before it started to rain (no raingear yet)... then I had a Portland Timbers soccer game to go to.... so not much driving Sunday.
Last night, Chelsea Sexton was in town promoting theelectricgeneration.org so I went down with some Oregon Electric Vehicle Association (OEVA) members to Bridgeport Brewery and had dinner (no beer for me though). Total ride was about 15 miles... and it was pretty dark on the way back. I think I need to adjust the light a little, but it was pretty cool, out there in the dark.... just cruising on the back-roads.
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ChelseaSexton.jpg)
So I think I've put maybe 65 miles (would've been more, but I've not had the time). I can't wait to put more miles on the bike!
So my 3rd day impression (note, I have limited riding experience on my old eVFR and my 2000 SV650):
- The bike handles well for my weight/height. The suspension seems fine, but I'd like to take to a tuner to get a second opinion
- I only use the clutch to downshift. I blip the throttle/shift up for higher gears
- I mostly use second gear around town
- The bike is pretty flickable and easy to ride around turns
- Charging is so easy and I think pretty reasonable from a 15A 120V socket. I haven't tried L2 yet
- Regenerative braking is awesome. Need to make sure to ease into regen around a corner since it's on the rear tire. I can slow to almost a stop with Regen, usingvery little of my brake
- The build quality of the bike is great. I'd like a quick release for the seat, but I carry an Allen wrench. I store an emergency tire inflator and pressure gauge under the seat.
- I thought I'd want more information about the batteries voltages, motor/battery current but what I've found is that the dashboard displays exactly what I need while riding. The rest can hopefully be downloaded off of the memory card and analyzed later.
- I ignore the range on the dash and keep an eye on the battery SOC.
- The "thunk", "lash", "clunk" etc is almost negligible if you just ease the throttle forward while at a stop to take up the transmission slack. The only other time is coming off throttle and into regen. It's no more or less than my old SV650 coming off throttle into engine braking before a turn. It's a non-issue for me.
- This bike gets a LOT of looks as I pass by people.
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very nice.
I loved the enertia classic for night riding. no regen or engine braking...so you would get up to speed and let off the throttle and coast along in silence. You felt like the nose cone of an airplane.
Gavin
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Been too rainy the last few days and I don't yet have rain gear.
Anyone have recommendations for some decent All season tires good in the rain? I'll keep my stock tires and throw them on in the summer.... but I do want something for the cooler/potentially wet season we get here in portland.
I did get some swingarm spools (Shogun Motorsports Spool/Sliders) for when I want to work on the bike. I already had a nice swingarm stand that has both the spool style and the platform support. I got the 8mm version of the spools (fits SV650) and they went right in and aside from the spools being tilted forward due to the design of the swingarm, they function well.
http://www.moto911.com/product_info.php?cPath=3_32_171&products_id=375&osCsid=j5854enninerifea0oe0rcqtb6 (http://www.moto911.com/product_info.php?cPath=3_32_171&products_id=375&osCsid=j5854enninerifea0oe0rcqtb6)
Had to pick up some warmer waterproof gloves. The ones I had were summer riding gloves and useless on the cold morning rides. Even with temps in the 50's, the windchill on my hands in summer gloves was a no-go.
Also picked up a used Ogio No Drag backpack on Craigslist. Has some nice reflective seams on it which are great because I've got a black leather jacket with no reflective strips on it. The backpack is pretty nice and can fit a laptop, shoes, pants, raingear, pressure gauge/tools fairly easily. Even has a nice Helmet hood that holds your helmet in a sling on the back of the backpack so you can carry it around. Nice and aerodynamic for riding too.
http://ogio.com/no-drag (http://ogio.com/no-drag)
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I don't think any tire manufacturer makes a "rain" tire for street use. They probably figure that most riders are not deliberately going to ride in the rain and sales would be minimal.
So I think your best bet would be to look for a 10/90 "dual sport" tire, if you can find one to fit your wheels. I have been very impressed with Michelin tires in the past and particularly their Anakee line. Michelin just came out with a new Anakee 3 tire that looks more like a sportbike tire than something for use in the dirt. I talked with one of their reps this weekend and he said that, in spite of the looks of its tread, it works really well, lasts a long time and is great in the wet. This tire will be installed on the new 2013 BMW R1200GS water-cooled bike.
If you can't find a dual sport tire to fit your rims, your only other option is to go with a "sport touring" tire. Most of these tires are fine on wet pavement, but (in my experience) they do not last as long as a dual sport tire and their tread is not as pronounced or as deep as you see in a dual sport. Stick with the major brands for the best wet weather performance.
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Also picked up a used Ogio No Drag backpack on Craigslist. Has some nice reflective seams on it which are great because I've got a black leather jacket with no reflective strips on it. The backpack is pretty nice and can fit a laptop, shoes, pants, raingear, pressure gauge/tools fairly easily. Even has a nice Helmet hood that holds your helmet in a sling on the back of the backpack so you can carry it around. Nice and aerodynamic for riding too.
http://ogio.com/no-drag (http://ogio.com/no-drag)
That's a nice looking pack. I was just watching some videos on Revzilla.com (love Anthony's videos) and the whole lineup looks pretty neat. I've never considered a "sportbike-syle" packpack before, since I've always used courier bags. But something with good aerodynamics really makes sense on an Empulse.
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I don't really want to ride in wet, but I don't think the AVON tires are going to be great if it DOES rain. Would like something for March-May and Sept-Nov riding.... Thanks Richard, I'll look into those a bit. I don't plan on going out when it's pouring, but I'd like to be able to get home safely if It does, and be able to ride on roads that might be damp. Oregon is beautiful, but it does get a little rainy this time of year.
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I know Brammo has done a ton of testing in S. Oregon, so I know they have done plenty of rain driving...I would ask Brian what he thinks.
I've driven the Enertia in rain, snow, hail and thunderstorms and had no problems...of course I wasn't railing the turns, just commuting to work and back.
Gavin
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Hey Frodus, just another opinion here...
You might be surprised how well they do in the wet. I rode a lot of sportbikes when I lived in Florida, and I always found that most sportbike street tires performed pretty well in the wet. Street tires never really hold much heat, so not much grip is sacrificed in the damp due to temperature. Their tread will shed a little standing water, but not bigger puddles or sheeting water in a heavy downpour. When things really dumped in FL I just slowed down a bit or I'd pull off under a bridge and wait 15 minutes until it went back to a drizzle. Weather in the Northwest likely sticks around for longer, but if the roads are generally just wet and not inundated, then you might be alright.
Now I also fully endorse street-oriented dual sport tires in the wet. I ride Metzler Tourances on my R1200GS and they really shed water well. They do pretty admirably in the twisties, but I do think I will still prefer sportbike tires on my Empulse.
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I might just be overly cautious because I did spend a bit on this bike! I'll see how they do for now. Thanks guys.
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very nice.
I loved the enertia classic for night riding. no regen or engine braking...so you would get up to speed and let off the throttle and coast along in silence. You felt like the nose cone of an airplane.
Gavin
Took delivery over the weekend and have hardly been able to get out, but I'm about as giddy as some of you other guys, after all the waiting and build-up. Wow!
Still, I have to say I like Gavin's imagery here and I do like coasting sometimes. Doing so on an E-bike would be the ultimate coasting!
I know it's very un-sport-bikey of me, but would it make sense for Brammo to code in some user-tailored regen settings so people could coast when they choose? I take it that's what the 2013 Zero app does. Would that be a hard thing to add to the Empulse? Not the app I mean, but the functionality.
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Does shifting into neutral or pulling in the clutch allow you to coast?
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Regen can be adjusted by programming the Sevcon
I can coast in Neutral or while pulling in the clutch.
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I've done a fair amount of riding in the rain on the Avons. I think they do just fine, although I had my first slip today, a bit on the rear as I accelerated hard to get onto the freeway on-ramp from a stop light and crossed a painted crosswalk patch. It was about 1/4 second and the grip recovered before I could even react.
I think all modern street tires that I've been on have done well in the rain, IF they do well in the dry. (I had some Bridgestones on a heavy ST100 that were scary all the time!). Sure I've got to slow down a bit, leave longer space between me and the car in front, and take longer for stops, but that's just common sense for all drivers in the rain and not really scary. Your pucker may vary!
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From what I understand all of the modern sport tires are really good, but I'll +1 the sport touring tires. They are designed to have a quicker warm up and run warmer at stree speeds, as well as perform really well in the rain. Examples are Pirellli's Angels, Bridgestone's BT-023, or Dunlop's Roadsmarts. Avons had a real good rep in damp and cool conditions as they were (are?) a British brand, but I don't know about currently.
I used to run the older version of the BT023s. The front tire looked like a MotoGP rain tire. :D But that was years ago. Just my 2 cents.
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The only tires that really scared me in the wet were the Bridgestone S-11 tires (you won't find those in your sizes) and the Metezler ME 880. That tire will last forever, carry a ton of load and if it is cold and wet, will slide for a quarter mile before coming to a stop. Other than that, I have found most modern radial tires to work pretty well on wet pavement, especially if they are not worn out (so that they still have decent tread) and are at the proper inflation pressure.
For rain riding, look for a tire that has a lot of grooves in the tread, including some that cross the center of the tire. The deeper the better - which is where dual-sport tires do well.
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Thanks guys, That makes me feel a bit better. I'm used to more grooved tires than the Avons. I'll stick with these for now and just continue being careful if it rains.
On a lighter note:
I rode to work today, got a handful of people to stop in lanes next to me at lights and give me the NOD. Pretty cool.
The commute is about 13 miles door to door, mostly highway. I left a little early so I could avoid some traffic. I went from ~95% to 75%, which roughly works out to be ~2kwh used... and at local rates of ~$0.10/kwh, cost me $0.25 including some fudge factor for charging inefficiency/variance in riding. I'll know better once I plug it in to charge (I've got a Kill-a-watt meter that the bike is plugged into).
For the same trip, in the morning, on slow or stop and go highway speeds, I'd average about 20mpg on the way to work in my Audi A4 Quattro, so for the same route, it'd cost ~$2.50 in gas.
That's HUGE. I wasn't even thinking about that kind of savings when I got the bike.... so yeah, awesome! So comparing 16 weeks of riding as an example:
Empulse R:
16 weeks * 5 days * $0.50/day RT = $40
Audi A4 Quattro:
same 16 weeks * 5 days * $5/day RT = $400
That's 10 times cheaper, and since it's mostly Water and Wind power in Oregon, it's a lot better on the environment.
And yes, I plan on charting my Kill-A-Watt meter versus miles ridden.
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Met up with skuzzle for lunch at Buffalo Wild Wings and he followed me over to work and took it for a spin down the street. Was a nice chat!
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Not sure if they are sold in the US but Metzeler makes great winter tires for motorcycles! I currently use Heidenau winter tires myself but that is because the Vectrix has scooter size wheels.
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Met up with skuzzle for lunch at Buffalo Wild Wings and he followed me over to work and took it for a spin down the street. Was a nice chat!
Frodus was nice enough to give me a quick test run on the Frodus machine. I just did a quick second gear down a straight road and back. Short ride, but now I'm hooked. The acceleration at even 2/3 throttle was better than what I was expecting. Getting going with little sound is really cool. I can't comment about how the bike handles turns, but the narrow profile and bike size reminds me of smaller fun bikes I have ridden in the past like my old FZR400.
Hopefully the non-R Empulses will be available soon so I can write about my own bike in the near future.
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Empulse E1 (non-R) production is set to begin in April, so you can get excited. ;) Thanks for your patience!
Coming in April, hopefully to a store near you. 8)
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Went to Cyclegear this weekend to look around.... Looking didn't turn out as well as planned..... came home with a few things:
Seven Zero Seven Vendetta 3 helmet with flip down internal sun shield. I needed something with a clear visor for night time, and preferred a flip down shield for day riding when it's bright. Haven't tried it during a sunny day yet, it's been overcast. Seems like a solid helmet and fits well.
http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/Vendetta_3_Solid_Full-Face_Motorcycle_Helmet/web1010348 (http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/Vendetta_3_Solid_Full-Face_Motorcycle_Helmet/web1010348)
Riding "Jeans" with kneepads and kevlar near knees/hips and seat.
http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/bilt_iron_workers_steel_motorcycle_jeans/web1009966 (http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/bilt_iron_workers_steel_motorcycle_jeans/web1009966)
and a Xena XZZ6L Lock with Alarm (fits Empulse rotors). This thing is LOUD and seems like a solid lock.
http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/XZZ6L_Disc_Lock_Alarm/web1008115 (http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/XZZ6L_Disc_Lock_Alarm/web1008115)
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I've got the Zena lock and we've discussed it on the forum before. It's excellent.
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I too sprung for the Xena stainless lock. Man, you'd better not carry that on your person if you ever fall into a body of water deeper than a bathtub!
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Its for trips into town/to and from work where I'll bring my Ogio bag. They tell you specifically not to carry it because its super heavy ... thanks for the heads up. Its a nice lock for sure and really loud!
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One of the West Coast Dealer Support Reps (James) came to Portland and had a firmware update to do... took him about 30 minutes or so during my lunch break. I didn't have any issues, but they wanted me to be running the latest and do the upgrade while James was in town to upgrade another users bike. Very pleasant experience. Thanks to Adam and James.
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Let us know what you notice, please.
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Nothing major. The SOC meter would sometimes show 95% fresh off the charger, other times it would show 100%. Now it shows 100% fresh off the charger.
Went on a ~15 mile ride last night downtown and back. Went through some populated streets and two times people stopped and talked to me. One was a group walking across the crosswalk while I was stopped. The first guy just kinda walked past and the second two kinda stopped and gave me thumbs up and asked how I liked the electric motorcycle. The second guy was coming the other direction right after the first group, walked over on my right side and asked me what the hell this thing was. I told him it's all electric, Brammo Empulse. He said "I'm gonna have to google that! too cool man!"
I get lots of cars looking and pointing..... it's pretty cool.
Going to an OEVA (Oregon Electric Vehicle Association, an EVAA chapter) tonight with the bike. Should be fun. I don't think many people have seen the bike yet.
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Went to the OEVA (Oregon Electric Vehicle Association) meeting last night. We're an EAA chapter here in Portland, OR.
It was sprinkling a little, roads were a tad wet and I was just fine. I just took it easy. On the way down, I got a double thumbs up from a pedestrian in the crosswalk. He looked over and immediately knew it was electric. Had me grinning.
We meet at the World Trade Center downtown, and PGE unlocks the gate so we can park vehicles out in the brick open-space in front of the building. I parked next to a Leaf and before I took my helmet off, I was already being asked questions about it. People really liked it, and were surprised at all of the features/range/power/transmission. When we headed inside for the meeting, I got to share a little more with people and field questions from an audience of about 30.
It was fun, and I plan on more meetings and events. If you have a EAA chapter, or even a EV club, JOIN IT! Spread the word, join, be activists.
Next Wednesday Chelsea Sexton is coming back for her work with theelectricgeneration.org. It's my Bday and we're meeting at Bridgeport Brewery downtown at 6pm, and my friends are coming for dinner at 7, so I get to overlap. It'll be a fun birthday! I will NOT be riding my motorcycle :)
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ah man...I would LOVE to see a photo of Chelsea sitting on an Empulse....Can't you get a Designated Driver to take the bike home??
:)
have fun and happy early birthday.
Gavin
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I would also LOVE to have a photo of Chelsea on an Empulse.
Somewhere, I have a photo of her on an Enertia.
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I tried last time I saw her (Had the empulse for less than a week). She didn't want to throw a leg over, as she already had. Oh well, she'll be back and I'll harass her more :)
She's pretty chill to hang with. I'll enjoy beer'ing with her this time.
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Just tell her that Brammofan said he thought she was too "girlie" to get on such a powerful machine.
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If you have a EAA chapter, or even a EV club, JOIN IT! Spread the word, join, be activists.
I just found out there's an EV club that has its monthly meeting tomorrow in Palo Alto.
"Guest Speaker: Ulric Kwan, Electric Vehicle Manager, PG&E
Ulric Kwan is a mechanical engineer who has worked on customer energy solutions for over 10 years. He currently is the manager for Electric Vehicles and works extensively on Demand Response and Smart Grid policy and implementation.
His presentation will discuss PG&E's EV Program, EV Rates, Power Generation Mix and Service Planning Support.
This is a great opportunity to ask questions about your utiliy rates and other issues related to EVs. Join us, its likely to be lively discussion."
Yes, since it's my understanding that PG&E lowers off-peak rates but boosts day rates for their EV tariffs, and since I intend to attend, I can guarantee the discussion will be "lively!"
Heck I can feel my 60's activism getting reawakened and I just may have to grow my hair long again. (Both of them!)
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Here's a video from Friday, such a nice day!
http://youtu.be/DJjVQjPnhz8 (http://youtu.be/DJjVQjPnhz8)
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nice ride!!
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Last night I went to the Oregon Entrepeneur Network/Drive Oregon Pubtalk. Brammo, Arcimoto and Opconnect were there to talk. I spoke with Brammo a few weeks ago to see if they wanted my bike there to display. Got an email Monday asking if I was still interested. I said yes, and brought my bike down.
I got to put the bike on the small stage, behind the speakers. It really made a great impression to have the vehicle there for people to look at. The talks were great and I learned a lot. After the talks, during the Q&A session, I was bombarded by questions, contgratulations and got some contact info for people that wanted to just grab a beer and learn more from my side of things.
I had fun, thanks Brammo for the invitation!
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SUPER COOL. Congrats.
I'm jealous....if I didn't love the Southwest so much I would have to move to Oregon just to do stuff like that.
Gavin
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Thanks! I'll be meeting up with TheElectricGeneration.org next week. Still deciding if I'm going to the OEVA meeting tonight. I want to go to these events, it makes sense!
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Scored some CRG LS mirrors on Craigslist locally for half off... And they were barely used! The guy was super cook and wants to ride sometime.
Definitely helps seeing behind me. I like the look better too... Looks more like a street fighter now.
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pic?
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Figured I'd document my mods a little.
Added a Progrip "tank" protector. My coat was rubbing on the "tank" and it had some small scratches, so I installed a protector. Not an exact fit, but it works well. Carbon fiber style design.
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_20130417_200237.jpg)
I found a guy local on Craigslist that had some CRG Lane splitter mirrors for sale. I offered him $100 for the pair and he accepted. They didn't have the inserts, but I used some inserts I had from my bar ends and had some screws sitting around that fit. I like the mirrors a ton better, as I can now see behind me due to the curved mirror.
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_20130417_200308.jpg)
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_20130417_200332.jpg)
Lastly, this is from Brammo. A few weeks ago, people mentioned that their chain was hitting the swingarm. I looked and mine was slightly hitting as well. I talked to Brammo and they had mentioned they had a solution and asked if I wanted to test one of them. This is a prototype that was CNC machined out of plastic, not the final form. I said sure, and they sent me one. The fit is great and the kit comes with everything you need to install (parts + loctite + directions). The roller chain rolls right over it when heavily accelerating or decellerating. It apears to be some sort of Delrin/UHMW material. I don't know anything about availability or cost.
(http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_20130417_200342.jpg)
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I just installed that exact same "tank" protector on my black R, right where the exposed zipper on my jacket was dulling the finish...
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/23/avasymyq.jpg)
charging while I'm at lunch.
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So, I got the bike with ~500 miles on the odometer and now I'm at 1070 miles.... not bad. 570 miles on the bike since I got it March 2nd! And that doesn't really illustrate how rainy it's been for most of March and some of April.
It doesn't really feel like 570 miles though.... as all my riding is 20-30 miles at a time, with a couple 40mi trips.
Still going strong 2 months to the day since I got it.
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I have a Kill-A-Watt meter that measures current and voltage and time, and you enter in your cost per kWh and it spits out kWh used, cost of use, power factor, etc. Pretty cool, I think everyone with an Empulse should own one.
I've always kept my Clipper Creek J1772 plugged into it just to keep an eye on useage. Well, 315 miles ago, I reset the trip meter on the Empulse, and reset the accumulation of cost on the Kill-A-Watt. I pay about $0.10/kWh here in Beaverton, just outside of Portland, OR and put that into the KAW.
So after ~315 miles and charging after that distance driven, I looked on the KAW meter and it said $4.68. That works out to ~$0.015 per mile. That's pretty awesome! It works out to 46.8kWh from the wall. That gives ~148Wh/mi which isn't anything spectacular.......
But...... that's all the way from the wall to the wheel and takes into account the charger inefficiency, operating the battery heaters and the parking lights and BMS as well as the battery charge/discharge inefficiency. Usually when we're doing these calculations, we're only looking at battery side and not taking any of that into account.... which is not terribly accurate because you aren't really measuring the kWh into the motorcycle, only the kWh out of the pack. So with a Kill-A-Watt meter, I'm measuring the actual energy that I use from the wall, and what it costs.
For comparison, Gas is $3.65/gal and when I drive my A4 Quattro to work and back, I average ~22mi/gal which works out to be right around $0.16/mi of cost.... but that doesn't include oil changes at ~$70 every 7000 miles, an additional $0.01/mi. Oil changes on the Empulse are ~$11 per 3000 mi or $0.004/mi.... for a grand total of ~$0.019/mi. So $0.17/mi on my A4 compared to $0.019/mi on my Empulse.
So Lets say I drive to/from work every work day for the next 4 months (80 days) and my trip is ~15 miles each way or 30mi RT. That's right around 2400 miles. Maybe add on another 1000mi for fun and I'm at 3400mi.
Audi total cost for 3400mi: $578
Empulse total cost for 3400 mi: $64.60
Not bad, Not bad!
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The way I like to think about energy usage is that for about $4 an ICE is given a gallon of gas, which works out to about 36+kwh of energy. They then squander it like it was going out of style (pun intended) and get very little in return for the energy we entrusted them with.
The empulse holds just about ~9kwh of electrical energy which is the energy equivalent of about 1/4 gallon of gas. Now, if that energy came from burning fossil fuels then there was probably much more than 9kwh worth of gas burned to get that energy to you, but I view that as an issue for the energy industry to work on. I'm more concerned with what I do with the energy I was given.
To that end, the Empulse goes much further on its 1/4 gallon(equiv) than most any ICE vehicle goes on a full gallon of gas, which means it goes much further than 4x the distance per energy unit than any ICE vehicle.
The prices work out similarly. 36kwh of electricity costs many people about what a gallon of gas costs. That may change over time, and that is interesting to track, but I'm more impressed by the actual efficiency of the energy usage happening inside my vehicle as that is the part that I directly control with my right wrist and my travel plans...
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I guess to summarize my last post - you can think of 56 miles highway as being not that big of a range, but when you consider that it is on a bike that holds "1/4 gallon of gas" then you start to really appreciate how impressive that 56-mile figure actually is...
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Good point!
I looked at wikipedia (because it's damned interesting) and it said 34kwh or 1 MPGe = 0.0292 miles/kW·h so I'll use those numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent)
On an Empulse, going with my useage numbers of 315 miles and 46.8kwh from the wall. That's ~6.73mi/kWh. Divide that by 0.0292mi/kWh and we get 230.5MPGe. Going by kWh only, 148Wh/mi and 34kWh would be 229.72MPGe... close enough.
Note: there's a lot of highway on my commute, and I took it out for fun on the highway and rode for almost an hour before returning home, so I expect this to be fairly low.
From Brammo's website:
City: 438 MPG-e
Highway: 203 MPG-e
Combined: 279 MPG-e
So it looks like I'm somewhere between "Highway" MPGe and "Combined" MPGe. 6.73mi/kWh and 9.3kWh in the battery is about 62.6mi on my daily commute, which is also in between Highway range and combined range.
Also, I wondered where they calculate energy useage from. Wikipedia says:
"For EPA, this considers the tank-to-wheel for liquids and wall-to-wheel energy consumption for electricity"
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I'm dissatisfied with most of the comparisons to gas.
1. Comparing using a genset
1 gallon of gas burned in a genset will produce about 6 kWh of electricity. By that measure frodus is getting about 40 mpg. Not a good 1:1 comparison because there's an extra set of steps to convert mechanical energy into AC grid energy, then back into DC energy to charge the batteries.
It does approximate the efficiency of burning fossil fuels in the power grid and using that energy to charge the bike .. which for most of us is a good representation of how we charge our bikes.
6 kWh/gal / (148 Wh/mile) = 40 MPG
2. Comparing using thermal energy AKA EPA
1 gallon of gas contains about 33.7 kWh of thermal (chemical) energy. Ignores all combustion losses in a gas vehicle as well as combustion losses in the grid. Good because it compares just the efficiency of the vehicle itself, but bad in that ignoring combustion losses makes for a useless comparison against a gas vehicle.
33.7 kWh/gal / (148 Wh/mile) = 228 MPGe
3. Comparing using cents
Using frodus's costs:
$3.65/gal / ($0.10/kWh * 148 Wh/mile) = 246 MPG$
4. Comparing using CO2
This accurately reflects the portion of the grid that combusts fossil fuels.
I ran my calculations earlier (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=1142.0) and get about 90 MPGco2 on my Zero using Alabama's relatively dirty energy.
Punching Beaverton's zipcode (97007) into the EPA GRID 2009 numbers gives us 819 lbs CO2/MWH for Portland Electric.
( 8.8 kg / gal ) / ( 819 lbs CO2/MWH * 1 kg/2.2 lbs * 148 Wh/mile ) = 160 MPGco2
So even though frodus uses slightly more electrical energy than I use on my Zero (probably I ride more slowly), he's substantially cleaner due to Portland's high mix of hydro.
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33.7 kWh per gallon of gas is the amount of thermal energy released when you fully combust a gallon of gasoline.
An engine's job is to converting thermal energy into mechnical energy. They're about 20-25% efficient at best, and many bike engines are notably less efficient.
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Good points Protomech... I REALLY like your MPGco2 calculations.
The only issue with that website, is that it does not take into account Wind in the area and that we've signed up for this:
http://www.portlandgeneral.com/residential/renewable_energy/green_source.aspx (http://www.portlandgeneral.com/residential/renewable_energy/green_source.aspx)
That really drives the message home.... how much less am I poluting with Oregon Renewables than: National average, All Oregon Energy, SV650, Genset and my car.
The Portland General website states that my household is at ~1% of the national average for CO2 (1216 lbs/MWh from the website you linked) or 551.6g/kWh... and 1% of that is 5.516 g/kWh. Then at 0.148 kWh/mi and 5.516g/kWh we get 0.818 g/mi. Using the 819lbs/MWh number, I get 55g/mi.... so I'm doing 67times better by having my electricity come from renewables, rather than "everything"
Then, here's the insane part.....If I use your conversion to MPGco2, (8800g/gal)/(0.818g/mi) = MPGco2, we get 10,757 MPGco2
SV650 gets ~45mpg, that's about 195.5 g/mi.
Genset gets 40.5mpg, 8800g CO2/1gal would produce ~217g/mi
Audi A4 gets ~22mpg when I ride to work (better highyway), that's about 400g/mi.
My Empulse, by Protomech's equations, is:
489 times better with respect to CO2 Emissions than my Audi A4
265 times better with respect to CO2 Emissions than a gas generator
239 times better with respect to CO2 Emissions than my old SV650
That's even more reason to ride my motorcycle!
That'd go up even more if I were to invest in Solar/Grid tie.
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Ha, hold on a sec.
Yeah, the numbers are from 2009. So they don't account for recent developments (TVA locally has switched to more natural gas and less coal, due to NG's price drop in recent years).
Not sure I buy 1% of the national average. Maybe it means in the top 1%?
Even if you buy into the "renewable offset" programs (I do), electricity on the grid is very fungible. When you drop an additional load on the grid - like plugging in the Empulse at 3.3 kW - the aggregate grid load will shift. As the grid load shifts upwards, some engineer hits a button (okay, a computer) and dumps more coal into a hopper or releases pumped hydro or throws more natural gas into the turbine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispatchable_generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispatchable_generation)
So even though I pay for a certain portion of the grid to be fueled by renewable sources - for TVA that almost exclusively means landfill methane, though TVA just opened up a PV-only renewable credit - the reality is that my bike is at least in part sips down a nice coal puree.
Same thing applies if you have on-roof solar panels and you use the grid for "storage". PV will help reduce peak grid consumption during the hottest part of the day, which is very cool.. but when you charge your bike at night you'll be pulling down whatever your region uses for dispatchable power.
That's part of why we need smart charging for EVs. I don't care when my EV charges, as long as it's full by the time I leave in the morning. Giving the grid the freedom to shift EV charging forwards or backwards, within constraints set by the customer, can potentially significantly reduce the need for dispatchable power and increase baseload power (eg nuclear.. cheap, clean power!)
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Thats the beautiful thing about EVs, they get cleaner every year as the grid cleans up... and they run on anything that can be harnessed to create electricity. Cant really get much better than that.
I dont think we will ever see fuel cell or hydrogen powered motorcycles. Electric is clearly the way to go.
I like the idea of smart charging, though some may worry that it would adversely affect the life of the battery. I also remember hearing of something where the utility company pays customers for the privilege.
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My 36kwh figure was a theoretical figure - I saw it in a couple of places, including a couple of sources that demonstrated where the EPA derived their figures from and you can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline) (more precisely 36.6 kwh).
The other figures are conversion based and assume various efficiencies:
The 33.7 figure assumes a 92% conversion rate.
The 34.7 figure assumes a 95% conversion rate.
Neither of those is achievable in a power plant, though - not even close. This is why I was focused on what is installed in the vehicle vs. what it does with it.
The one overwhelming reason I do that is that it is possible for me to have 0 "loss" power in my EV. All it takes is installing a solar panel (possibly some wind turbines or some other renewable generation equipment depending on location). Sure, the solar panel is not 100% efficient in turning sunlight into electrons, but it doesn't kill dinosaurs if it loses some free electrons between my roof and my battery pack.
Tank to road compares to battery pack to road and all other comparisons make assumptions about the power infrastructure that are constantly changing. If you want to use MPGe then you have to consider what process they are assuming with such a high conversion rate (I believe it is burning it and heating water, but that doesn't propel a car). If I get my energy from the sun, or hydroelectric, or wind then why should my energy, when compared to a gallon of gas, be modified by some real or theoretical fossil fuel conversion rate? If I produce my electrons myself, then what does any real world generator scheme have to do with what happens when I twist my wrist?
The ICE driver is "given" 36.6 kwh worth of energy. There was a lot of power used to get that chunk of energy to them and then on top of that they fumble it badly inside their engine compartment. The Empulse is bestowed with 9.3 kwh of nominal energy. It probably drew more than that out of the wall, and that is fair game for some other analysis, but when it's "tank" was "full", it had 9.3 kwh of energy in it (or would a better comparison be the 10.2 kwh figure?).
Tesla has a nice web page that shows where various regions of the country get their electric power from. If you are in the Northwest your ICE competition should not get a break by underestimating their fossil fuel waste because it has nothing to do with where your electrons came from (http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric#electricity (http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric#electricity)).
And, installing your own renewable power generation trumps any lines you may want to draw as to how to calculate efficiency of charging.
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9.3 kWh is a fair representation for how much energy the Empulse pack holds. The available energy will vary based upon temperature and rate of withdrawal, but it's a good stand-in.
36.6 kWh is the higher heating value of gasoline.
33.7 kWh is the lower heating value of gasoline.
"LHV calculations assume that the water component of a combustion process is in vapor state at the end of combustion, as opposed to the higher heating value (HHV) (a.k.a. gross calorific value or gross CV) which assumes that all of the water in a combustion process is in a liquid state after a combustion process."
In gasoline combustion all the water products will be in a vapor sent out the exhaust. So LHV is the appropriate value. At least that's my understanding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_heating_value#Lower_heating_value
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This is all great stuff guys!
It makes me want to get a few solar panels to help offset my carbon emissions via Grid Power..... just need to look into it a little more. We're renting from my GF's parents right now, and they said they don't care. I might just try to put a few 240Watters on the upper level patio with a grid tie inverter.
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9.3 kWh is a fair representation for how much energy the Empulse pack holds. The available energy will vary based upon temperature and rate of withdrawal, but it's a good stand-in.
36.6 kWh is the higher heating value of gasoline.
33.7 kWh is the lower heating value of gasoline.
"LHV calculations assume that the water component of a combustion process is in vapor state at the end of combustion, as opposed to the higher heating value (HHV) (a.k.a. gross calorific value or gross CV) which assumes that all of the water in a combustion process is in a liquid state after a combustion process."
In gasoline combustion all the water products will be in a vapor sent out the exhaust. So LHV is the appropriate value. At least that's my understanding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_heating_value#Lower_heating_value
In some sense, that is conversion efficiency, no? If you leave the water as vapor then you haven't fully converted the heat energy in the final byproducts. If you reclaim the heat that is causing the water to exist in non-liquid form then you have full conversion. If you don't, then you have a less efficient conversion.
One could just as easily say "a car only gets about 9kwh of energy out of a gallon of gas" and then claim that the gas only contained 9kwh of energy, but the 36.6-9 is its inefficiency. A "conversion of gas to heated byproducts" is an inefficient conversion of the energy in that gas, just like the combustion of gas in an ever increasingly hot metallic piston chamber is experiencing lots of losses including that heat.
When I ride my Empulse hard it vents heat. It is being dinged for that inefficiency of converting the energy stored in the LiIon batteries into propulsion. So should any conversion of the gas in the tank that produces heat, whether the heat settles in the conversion apparatus or the end products.
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I got to hang out a bit with Skuzzle this weekend at the OEVA EV awareness day in downtown PDX. He brought his and we fielded questions from people. We got a ton of interest!!!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/numyryjy.jpg)
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/abejeje3.jpg)
That VW bus may be the most awesome electric vehicle I have ever seen. However, it really needs to replace the snowboarder motif with a gigantic airbrushed wizard shooting lightning bolts everywhere.
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It was badass. Gbs cells and an ac50 motor. Had a tv on the rear door that flips down... solar panels on top... a tv and leather seats inside... truly awesome. One of the best conversions I've seen.... ever.
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Love the solar VW microbus!
flar, I see I never answered your previous question. (I think it was a question? Maybe it was just a statement : )
Yes. The LHV of gasoline represents a less efficient combustion cycle, versus a the HHV combustion cycle where the heated water vapor is captured.
I think it's important to distinguish between combustion cycle efficiency and engine efficiency.
Cycle efficiency characterizes how much heat energy is extracted from fuel.
Engine efficiency characterizes how much kinetic energy is extracted from heat energy.
Vehicle/driver efficiency characterizes how many miles can be traveled with that kinetic energy.
All three of these metrics are combined into a MPG (or better stated, a quantity of fuel used per distance) metric.
The ICE driver isn't given energy. He's given fuel. There's no "intrinsic" energy associated with the fuel - perhaps you could make an argument for the rest mass / energy equivalency to come up with 9E16 J/kg = 2.5E13 Wh/kg. Next to that, though, any efficiency metric is going to need a whole bunch of zeros.
You can combine cycle efficiency and engine efficiency into a single metric: brake-specific fuel consumption (BSFC) curves do just this. However, if you're talking unitary % efficiency - converting one type of energy into another - then you're talking heat energy into kinetic energy, which is independent of the combustion cycle efficiency (and thus wrangling over HHV vs LHV). Engines use a LHV combustion cycle, so if you're talking % efficiency then you have to discuss it in terms of the LHV heat energy.
At least, that's my thoughts.
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Yes. The LHV of gasoline represents a less efficient combustion cycle, versus a the HHV combustion cycle where the heated water vapor is captured.
To summarize, let me see if I got this right.
HHV cycle implies recapturing the heat in the water vapor (end products).
LHV cycle implies not recapturing that heat, resulting in a less comprehensive conversion of fuel into usable energy.
?
You can combine cycle efficiency and engine efficiency into a single metric: brake-specific fuel consumption (BSFC) curves do just this. However, if you're talking unitary % efficiency - converting one type of energy into another - then you're talking heat energy into kinetic energy, which is independent of the combustion cycle efficiency (and thus wrangling over HHV vs LHV). Engines use a LHV combustion cycle, so if you're talking % efficiency then you have to discuss it in terms of the LHV heat energy.
Are you saying "[all] engines [must] use a LHV combustion cycle"? Or are you saying "[current] engines use a LHV combustion cycle"? If it's the former, I don't see why an engine could not incorporate a system to create kinetic boost from the heat in the exhaust. Isn't a turbocharger a form of using the heat in your exhaust to boost power? If it's the latter, then we are simply assuming a present-day inefficiency of our current engine designs and I don't see why we should forgive any inefficiency and simply "live with it" when talking about the energy efficiency of various alternate designs. Otherwise, why don't we subtract the heat that soaked into the engine block? Or the energy that moved the pistons instead of being transferred down the crankshaft?
At least, that's my thoughts.
Mine too...
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/abejeje3.jpg)
That VW bus may be the most awesome electric vehicle I have ever seen. However, it really needs to replace the snowboarder motif with a gigantic airbrushed wizard shooting lightning bolts everywhere.
Is it just me, or is the bus sitting back on its haunches? Perhaps some beefier springs in the rear would help?
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Maybe its time to start another thread for that topic guys.....
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Got to show off my bike to people at the Celebrate Hillsboro street fair on Saturday. People loved it!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/9a5ata5a.jpg)
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I'm sitting across the street from Brammo right now... I can see the building from my hotel. Going to get lunch and a quick peak tomorrow before I head back to Portland.
Pretty excited.
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So... Got up this morning and Brian messaged me that he had a meeting later and wanted me to come over for a quick tour whenever we were ready..... I was BORN ready!!! My GF and I checked out of the hotel and drove all the way next door!
I gotta say, that my GF was super patient with us geeking out during the tour and I really appreciated it. I'll be sucking up for a while :)
We grabbed coffee and then headed over to Brammo and Adrian started the tour while Brian had a quick meeting. The last time I was in this building was in 2009, just after the TTXGP at IOM.
He showed me all of the pretty trophies they've collected over the years. Seeing the different podium finishes with the trophies does it no justice. It's truly something else seeing all of them in their front entry. He took me to the engineering offices and introduced me to a few people, one of whom I worked with on an IOM Race bike in 2009. The engineering crew has grown quite a bit compared to 2009.
Brian joined us and I had to stop taking photos. He showed me around the engineering office and I got to see the innards of the Parker motors and the vehicle electronics. There's also some great concepts and designs in the works. I can't say much, but they've definitely listened to their owners about wants and needs.
He showed me different batteries they've used and tested. I got to see the insides of some of the Valence batteries they used on the original Enertia, as well as some of the new packs for the Enertia Plus and Empulse. The BMS electronics are pretty slick... ingenious actually. They really thought of a lot. I got to see the battery lab, and found out that all cells are tested at least once for capacity, IR (AC), IR (DC) and a few other things. This is in addition to the testing at the factory they get their cells from. They also destructively test cells to see their limits, so they can stay FAR from these limits. They definitely qualified these batteries before they go into any bike.
Then he showed me some of the 2014 stuff. There are some nice tweaks they're doing on the bikes, and they'll be mostly based on the 2013 bike. I got to see one of the Icon/Brammo/Eboz bike.... So pretty!
We went into the assembly area where I saw the last two Empulse bikes to come from the Ashland Brammo address (the VIN numbers are getting pretty high!) They're moving Production to the old Walmart building in Talent, OR quickly so they can start back up quickly. Then they're moving all of the Offices over there and should be completely moved over by Mid November. It's a HUGE building (saw it from the highway). Wonder if Brammo will be hiring? :)
I also got to see their race bikes, which were being prepped for the next (and last?) race of the season. They had a front fairing from the RR bike on the TTX and it looked pretty neat. Custom fairing mount that connects to the standard R/E1 steering head, so there's definitely a place to attach a front fairing on these bikes!
I also saw the fairing for the 2009 TTR they ran at IOM. Brian says its an RS250 and it will fit the Empulse with minor modifications.....would look pretty sexy with a full fairing IMHO. Who's first?
Brian had to go (and so did we), and Adrian took me to Adam for a quick intro. They seemed keen to listen to feedback I had along the way and thanked me for coming by. We headed out and I took some shots of the employee bikes sitting outside..... next to Craig's Loaner Tesla Model S. These guys are absolutely devoted to electrics.
I left out the driveway with a shit-eating-grin on my face. It was a blast and I really thank Adrian, Brian and Adam for the great time.
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Thanks for sharing the great report of your tour, frodus.
Any word on windshield, top box, side cases for R/E1?
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Windscreen is in the works. I didn't ask about anything else.... I'm going to make my own top case mount this fall hopefully.
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OK, you can make your own mount, but only if you post pictures!
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I'll prolly get a few made actually.... But yes I'll post pics and some cad drawings before I get it water jet.
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Some pics:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/01/umese3ut.jpg)
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Here's Craig's loaner Tesla Model S:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/01/rusu8aja.jpg)
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Like that yellow Empulse.
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Like that yellow Empulse.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Also, bravo on the arm candy, Travis! ;D
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Travis,
Thanks for stopping by and I'm glad we were able to meet up. Always fun to hang out and talk shop! I had forgotten how long it had been since your last visit. That was also pre-customer status, so I couldn't show you all the secret stuff back then. ;)
Next time you'll have to come to our new HQ building in Talent. It'll be a work in process for a few months yet, but it's going to be pretty sweet when it's done!
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Some recent pictures that a friend took
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Did some routine maintenance this weekend to ready her for the spring. Changed the oil in about 5 minutes, oiled the chain and tightened it a little, air in tires, that's it. 15 minutes total.
Nothing like a my SV650 where I'd be tinkering with the plugs, hoping I stabilized the fuel, running carb cleaner through it, ensuring the battery is charged, changing >1qt of oil, then riding around with smoke coming out the back for a mile or so.
I love my Empulse!