Brammo Owners Forum
General => Brammo Racing => Topic started by: BrammoBrian on October 08, 2013, 08:43:44 AM
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I'll be posting a more detailed race report later this week when we get all the photos back, but just wanted everyone here to know that Team Brammo KILLED IT this past weekend racing the gas bikes (and one Zero S) at Thunderhill Raceway.
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/IMG_7221a_1200x800_zps6abc283c.jpg)
With Shelina off participating in an all-women's trackday in Europe, EBoz jumped on the Empulse TTX to see how far we've come this season. The last time he had been on the bike was during pre-season testing. Kenyon Kluge came up to participate in the 250 Superbike race as well, and we were happy to have him there. He was on the bike that he rode to a 2nd place finish at Laguna and 3rd at Indy. Unfortunately, Jeremiah Johnson and one other customer Zero S had to pull out of the race due to a minor mechanical issue that couldn't be remedied in time. Kenyon and Eric started side-by-side at the back of the expert group in Row 5 due to these races being gridded by points. The field in 250SB was over 30 deep and Eric managed to nab us a 5th place finish overall after fighting for 2nd and 3rd on the first couple of laps. Kenyon represented the "e-bikes" well, finishing in 12th, 23 seconds back, in a very competitive field. It was a great start to what should be a good season next year with electrics participating in these club races more and more.
Shane Turpin was on fire on his Empulse RR, running away with a victory in Formula 40 Middleweight, the first ever win for an electric motorcycle in the history of AFM. He also grabbed the fastest lap of the race overall. He went on to earn a hard-fought 5th place in Formula 1, dropping his best lap from the day before by another 8 tenths of a second.
Here's a video of the last lap. You'll see Shane sandwiched between 2 gas bikes as he flies by...
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/th_IMG_3434_zps930bcd05.jpg) (http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/IMG_3434_zps930bcd05.mp4)
Eric finished out the weekend for us with a 6th place finish in 750 Superbike on his RR, an improvement on our 10th place in the same race back in June.
What a weekend! What a team! Thanks to everyone here for all the support! More to come...
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First comes competition. Then comes domination. Then comes regulation.. /sigh
How do the classes work? ie were Formula 40 / Formula 1 separate races, or was Formula 40 an award granted to a segment of the Formula 1 race?
250 SB has results posted up here - it shows 17 racers completed. It's definitely missing laptimes for EBoz and Kenyon .. was 250 SB racing at the same time as another class?
http://www.afmracing.org/index.php/race-results (http://www.afmracing.org/index.php/race-results)
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Very nice. After trailing Kenyon all summer, what was done to the TTX to get it that far ahead of Kenyon?
G
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First comes competition. Then comes domination. Then comes regulation.. /sigh
How do the classes work? ie were Formula 40 / Formula 1 separate races, or was Formula 40 an award granted to a segment of the Formula 1 race?
250 SB has results posted up here - it shows 17 racers completed. It's definitely missing laptimes for EBoz and Kenyon .. was 250 SB racing at the same time as another class?
http://www.afmracing.org/index.php/race-results (http://www.afmracing.org/index.php/race-results)
The races were separate, although F40 is kind of a special case. The Formula 40 race was run with each group (Heavyweight, Middleweight, and Lightweight) getting their own start, but racing on the track together. If you look at the results, Shane is listed as 6th overall because he caught up to the Heavyweights that started ahead of him (in both position and time). I don't know why there's a discrepancy in the number of starters for the race between AFM and MyLaps. There were definitely A LOT of bikes in these races.
Here is the site I use for results:
250 Superbike: http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2898438 (http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2898438)
Formula 40: http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2898430 (http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2898430)
Formula 1: http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2898442 (http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2898442)
750 Superbike: http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2898446 (http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2898446)
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Very nice. After trailing Kenyon all summer, what was done to the TTX to get it that far ahead of Kenyon?
G
I'm not sure I agree that we've trailed Kenyon all summer. Shelina bested Kenyon at the ReFuel event, but Kenyon was not on his full race bike, just a "boosted" production Zero S with size 6 controller.
Also remember that we only had 2 eRoadRacing races this season - Laguna Seca and Indianapolis. Shelina crashed out of the Laguna race and Indy was a missed set-up that I take responsibility for. Indy threw some challenges at us that we were simply not prepared for. All credit to the Zero riders for capitalizing though, they rode well and got their bikes set-up for the track better than we did. They deserved their finishes without a doubt.
So... I guess my answer (Brian's opinion) is that the bike has always been capable of this result, even if the team has come up short previously. Thus is the nature of racing...
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I can't wait until we have electric races with 30 bikes on the grid. That's a huge crowd for Kenyon and Eric to mix it up with (and battle through) ..
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Didn't mean to "ruffle" any feathers.
Brammo and it's Team and it's Racers had a wonderful race weekend and great results to end the season (?).
I should have focused on that vs asking about the earlier races.
Congrats to all.
G
(though I stand by the fact that being 23 seconds ahead of Kenyon is a very large number for 2 bikes that are spec'ed similarily...so great racing for Eric)
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Great site for results...I have a loathing for most sites for being either over complicated or insanely sparse.
That site is easy to use, read and navigate. Score.
G
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Didn't mean to "ruffle" any feathers.
Brammo and it's Team and it's Racers had a wonderful race weekend and great results to end the season (?).
I should have focused on that vs asking about the earlier races.
Congrats to all.
G
(though I stand by the fact that being 23 seconds ahead of Kenyon is a very large number for 2 bikes that are spec'ed similarily...so great racing for Eric)
No worries, Gavin. I wasn't upset and I think you asked what others may have been wondering as well. Thanks for the congratulations. It was a great way to wrap up our first season trying to take it to the gassers! We certainly proved that we deserve to be there with them.
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Photos from the races are just starting to trickle in... Hope to share more + a detailed race review by this weekend.
Here's a teaser:
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/cdf4893d-761d-4ce9-ab72-6de1cd91be43_zps426fb4f6.jpg)
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What are the reactions you get from the gas racers?
Have you noticed any shift over this last year, at the third AFM race Brammo has competed at?
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What are the reactions you get from the gas racers?
Have you noticed any shift over this last year, at the third AFM race Brammo has competed at?
Everyone during the AFM race weekend have been very supportive of us being there. I think we were a bit more "on the fringe" in the first event, whereas with the last round we felt more like part of the family. I think that's due to earning their respect by showing up with professionally prepared bikes and having racers that can race alongside them without causing problems. The respectable finishes in the races help as well! During this past weekend, we heard more and more "fast guy" racers saying they'd like to try out the electric bikes and a couple of the members of AFM's Board of Directors stopped by to thank us for being there - a really cool gesture. It may not be national news, but I feel that showing up to these races this season has done a lot to improve the credibility of electric within the most ardent, die-hard petrol heads, and that's something to be proud of!
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My full race report is up on the Brammo blog here:
https://www.brammo.com/blogs/ (https://www.brammo.com/blogs/)
Check it out!
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Love the detail in the race reports. Someone should hire you to write them!
Is there enough headroom in the radiator to run another cooolant loop through the controller? I recall Shelina having some overheating issues with the controller at Laguna Seca.
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Love the detail in the race reports. Someone should hire you to write them!
Is there enough headroom in the radiator to run another cooolant loop through the controller? I recall Shelina having some overheating issues with the controller at Laguna Seca.
Ha ha! I have a new found respect for journalists that are required to crank out a story hours after an event is complete. It's taken me days and I've still got typos and missed things I wanted to say. We all know that the real writer around here is Gavin!
The motor controller cutback is what is limiting the system at the moment. Your idea of adding a cooling loop is a good one, but it would need to be separate as the motor can run much hotter than the controller, so we wouldn't want it heating it when it should be cooling it. It appears as though there is plenty of thermal headroom in the battery and motor to complete the race at full pace if we can solve this issue. Then, of course, we'll run up against the next limitation. Still... we ran a faster best lap than 2 of the 4 riders that beat us in 250SB, so I think this alone will enable us to challenge for the podium. We also finally got the rest of the bodywork to match the nose fairing we've been running since Indy. This should provide a slight aero improvement as well. Plus - it looks really cool. 8)
Shelina had a cut-out issue at Laguna as the motor controller transitioned into field weakening along the front straight. We solved that issue, but were never able to determine if she had overheating issues as she never ran a full race distance of laps at race pace.
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Some more great photos that rolled in late...
250 Superbike Race with the Empulse TTX:
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/e90e4567-d47e-4ee7-8926-e5019cdcee7c_zps262d679d.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/d5ea99b8-82f1-4ba5-8280-f6dc58998992_zpsa510d58b.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/5db0820b-f63c-42d0-85d8-56e96653094b_zpsca9c94c0.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/399cf5f5-22dc-4676-ae15-54a77aaa7050_zps824fd325.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/20131006-DSC_3073-2826794241-O_zps4cdef72b.jpg)
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real writer? ha, thanks, but I'm sure we all know that is far from true. :)
I just throw about words like a monkey throws poo.
As for typos and grammatical errors...those are features, not flaws.
Great write up, and as always, killer photos.
G
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And more from the other races...
Formula 1 with Shane Turpin on the Empulse RR:
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/e09174b6-c295-4f02-a581-83168bdde55b_zps984f3f42.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/2eb1062c-9f88-441a-a50a-a8b9c135affe_zps57615cab.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/45bc6e80-ab85-43c6-b537-f8c5232ec1a2_zps34380a4e.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/e4807ced-f23b-4f9b-8e15-8e2d2b896417_zps387d50cd.jpg)
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And a couple more...
EBoz gets his lean on in the 750 Superbike race:
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/0cb5fe84-a366-4b8a-bdee-45f5c9406f03_zps4e7d7527.jpg)
EBoz leading a pack of angry 750 Superbike "gassers":
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/0a4f7886-3e74-4183-ad34-fa33dfeae224_zps836f3980.jpg)
Shane gets congratulated on a well deserved Formula 40 win (gotta love the comraderie!):
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/c5c80d00-08b1-4a51-8f68-9bcc3abb6288_zpse337dc97.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/wisdesign/37af6595-0b06-4629-9efc-f7b4ed0dbebe_zpse60ba789.jpg)
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Very nice. After trailing Kenyon all summer, what was done to the TTX to get it that far ahead of Kenyon?
G
I'll be the prick. The rider. Shelina is still racing Supersport in the AMA. EBoz was an AMA Superbike regular for years. She's just not there yet. And Kenyon used to race the old Formula Extreme on a hopped up 750 and do pretty darn well against guys who became very fast, so he's no slouch. I think the results we are seeing are a much greater reflection of rider's abilities and skill than anything to do with the bikes. I feel Shelina has come a really long way in just a short amount of time as a rider, so there is no disrespect to her at all. I am quite certain she'd say the same thing herself. Just my opinion though.
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Prick... ;)
Taking a look at the positive side of this, there was a time, not so long ago, when we could've put a first year club racer on the bike or Valentino Rossi and the result would have been the same. As the performance of the bikes has improved, rider skill is playing a larger role in the race result and extracting faster and faster lap times from the equipment...
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This is the thread. I talked to Shelina right after posted that and fessed up accordingly. She talked about the setup issue Brian spoke of. Make no mistake, she thinks/knows she's faster. And I'm really not one to argue . . . well, with her anyway. ;) And man did she want to run again to prove it, but that FIM instructor gig in Spain was too good to pass up.
I'll say this. With the experience I have setting up mountain bike suspension at my shop I think I would have had very similar actions and reaction that Brian did. Hell I get cranky when my customers mess with the preload in their forks from one trail to another, instead of the dampening. But I have along way to go before I'm a factory race mechanic for Giant or GT. Having listened to Shelina over the past year it's been a real insight into very different suspension settings need to be from one track to another. To tell the truth, a bit of a shock. So much to learn.
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mylaps has a nice lap time comparison tool. You can use it to compare lap times (http://www.mylaps.com/en/compare-racers/2898438) for the 250SB race between Eric Bostrom on the Brammo Empulse TTX (half-fairing) and Kenyon Kluge on the 2014 Zero prototype (sport fairing).
From Brian's race report (https://www.brammo.com/blogs/?p=1916):
Eric jumped the start, stopped the bike to avoid taking any advantage and being protested, missed the actual start flag dropping, wheelied, then got going again. Not-exactly-what-we-had-planned…. Oh well. Being the cool, calm, and collected racer he is, EBoz put it out of his head and got to work. He was able to make up a lot of ground on the faster backside of the track and even made a couple of passes on the front straight on Mark McKinney (super-fast 250 rider), but would lose the position back diving into Turn 1. By lap 2, he had made it up into a highly contested 3rd place, which he held until lap 4 when the motor controller began reducing current due to temperature. With his wings clipped, Eric fell back into the clutches of Mark McKinney and Robert Wetterau and managed to hold 5th for the final 2 laps. It looked like he might take 4th back at the line, but Wetterau got a better drive off Turn 14 onto the front straight and Eric wasn’t able to push past before the start/finish.
Looking at the fastest times, Eric was about 3.5 seconds faster. That's a pretty significant gap.
Both bikes also lost performance as the race wore on. In Eric's case, the motor controller began to overheat and reduce power by lap 4, following his 2:07.7 fastest time on lap 3. Eric slipped 1.4 seconds on lap 4, 3.0 seconds on lap 5, and 1.5 seconds on lap 6.
Kenyon was riding a 2014 prototype bike. I assume he was using a prototype SR motor with the higher temp motor magnets, which should permit the motor to reach higher temperatures safely. He also had ducting forcing additional air through the motor.
Despite these tweaks, Kenyon also suffered from reduced laptimes as the race wore on. His fastest time was on lap 2 at 2:11.2. He slipped 1.6 seconds on lap 3, 2.2 seconds by lap 4, 2.2 seconds on lap 5, and 2.9 seconds on lap 6.
It's hard to say how much time was lost due to lap traffic, normal variation from lap to lap, and how much to reduced performance. Eric dropped from #3 on lap 4 to #5 for laps 5 and 6, and Kenyon dropped from #8 on lap 3 to #12 for laps 4, 5, and 6.
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Protomech,
Thanks for sharing - I had not noticed that tool on myLaps. I'll use it to take a look at what we need to do to close the gap to the front runner, Eric Thompson, on his purpose-built 450 SuperSingle.
(http://www.afmracing.org/images/originalphotos/632/7/5f673877c86c74c7a65285d9.jpg)
We made some steps in the right direction at the last test with EBoz dropping to a 2:07 flat in trackday traffic and able to maintain performance over a simulated race distance. I'm optimistic we'll see some 2:05s next season...
(http://brammoelectricmotorcycles.smugmug.com/photos/i-MMR35QM/0/M/i-MMR35QM-M.jpg)