Brammo Owners Forum
General => Off Topic => Topic started by: EmpulseRider on July 27, 2011, 12:13:29 PM
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Man... Zero beat Brammo to market here in Colorado:
http://www.grandprixmotorsports.com/new_vehicle_list.asp?sid=05748865X7K27K2011J11I29I37JAMQ759R0&Manufacturer=5388&Category=1&CatDesc=Motorcycles (http://www.grandprixmotorsports.com/new_vehicle_list.asp?sid=05748865X7K27K2011J11I29I37JAMQ759R0&Manufacturer=5388&Category=1&CatDesc=Motorcycles)
Grand Prix is an awesome dealer too, I suggested them to Brammo a while back so I wonder if that has gone anywhere, considering that there is a Harley dealer only a block away. Total after tax rebates on the Zero S is like 4500! Not too shabby.
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They are listed as 2010 models. I wonder if that's an error.
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They are listed as 2010 models. I wonder if that's an error.
The pictures show the newer models, I will have to drop by this afternoon to take a look! Grand Prix is on the way home (minor detour).
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Cool. A full report will be expected, Agent J. 8)
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I had to schedule a test drive so I wont get to ride it until tomorrow night. I will say its a nice looking bike in person. The sales guy told me that its $5101.00 after federal and state tax rebates. Took a few pictures of an S they had:
(http://www.empulsebuyer.com/images/zero1.png)
(http://www.empulsebuyer.com/images/zero2.png)
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Good pics. Did the salesman do any of the usual schtick, e.g. "extension cord for your commute... bla bla bla baseball cards in the spokes . . . bla bla bla you really want a gas bike, etc."?
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Good pics. Did the salesman do any of the usual schtick, e.g. "extension cord for your commute... bla bla bla baseball cards in the spokes . . . bla bla bla you really want a gas bike, etc."?
LOL, No, he was very to the point. Said the bike was "as easy as a scooter to ride" and "very quick from a start". I had asked him if they where going to carry Brammo motorcycles, he said "I have no idea, I didn't even know we where gonna have these until they showed up a week ago". I had the impression that he had never heard of Brammo. I told him it would be great if they carried Brammos too!
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Just an update... I have not gotten to ride the Zero yet as it was raining pretty hard when I was scheduled to test ride. Have not gotten around to reschedule the test ride but I am aiming for later this week :).
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OK so I FINALLY test rode the Zero (DS). I found that other reviews that I have seen reflect my views with a few exceptions.
Fist thing I noticed when climbing aboard the DS was its definitely sits higher than what I am used to, but that was no real surprise with the DS coming from a GSXR750. Im 6' and I was on my toes! The upright ergonomics would take some getting used to. It felt like I was riding atop the Zero, whereas my Gixxer i feel like I am part of the bike. The Zero almost felt like a scooter but was very pleasant to ride, and was definitely a more comfortable commuter than what I am used to. One big complaint I have is the front brakes, if I mashed them like I had to on the Zero I would in a stoppie-gone-wrong world of hurt on my Gixxer. You really have to get on them. At full tilt the acceleration was decent but subdued, obviously by design. Between 0 and 75 (max I got her to go) the bike was plenty fast and felt VERY light in the turns, almost too light! I would be comfortable taking it out on the highway, most of them around Denver are 65mph anyway where traffic flow is about 70 or so.
Overall impression, this is a wicked fun bike! It struck me as very refined with silky smooth power delivery. I definitely enjoyed it but in the end it just wasn't my style of bike... Im really looking for something with ergonomics that are a little more comfy than my Gixxer but still somewhat similar (sporty) which is what I expect of the Empulse.
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nice....i am a bit tempted by the DS...top speed of 75 is perfect for me.
Will keep waiting on the Plus...but must admit that temptation is tugging at me a bit...
Gavin
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(http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/images/zero-ds/2011_zero-ds_product-page_main-image.jpg)
I like the powdered coated red rims and the spoke wheels...I miss all the spoke wheels from the 60's-70's.
I'm surprised the braking is still so bad with that HUGE front brake...just goes to show that bigger isn't always better :)
Gavin
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I'm surprised the braking is still so bad with that HUGE front brake...just goes to show that bigger isn't always better :)
Gavin
It's a system and full of potential "weakest links", as large as the front brake rotor is you still need a master cylider with an appropriate sized piston, along with an appropriate caliper and its pistons, and the brake pad material too...
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Rode a Zero S this last week, courtesy of the fantastic Hollywood Electric folks. Power is extremely linear, it's easy enough to keep up with road traffic; you do need to fully open the throttle if you want to get going however. The standard seat is too tall for me (30" inseam), Corbin makes a lower seat which allows me to flat-foot the bike at a stop. Brakes were fine, but my motorcycle experience isn't on a race replica. It's very easy to operate at low speeds; if you operate a bike in stop and go traffic (I do for part of my commute) you will love an electric bike.
Do I want an Empulse less, after riding the Zero? No. The Zero makes good cases for both a transmission (flat torque up to at least 50 mph, I'd love to be able to select a shorter gear at low speeds) AND direct-drive (super-easy to operate, if you can ride a single-speed pedal bike you can ride the Zero). A 40kw motor + a transmission means the Empulse will be in a class of its own when it is available.
But the Empulse is not available today, and we have no reliable guidance from Brammo as to when we can see the Empulse or Enertia Plus for sale.
IMHO Brammo needs to commit to a delivery date and final specifications for the Enertia Plus and Empulse and release some information about the battery pack. Withholding that information may have some strategic value, but an uncertain would-be consumer will eventually buy another product.
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IMHO Brammo needs to commit to a delivery date and final specifications for the Enertia Plus and Empulse and release some information about the battery pack. Withholding that information may have some strategic value, but an uncertain would-be consumer will eventually buy another product.
I agree...but....
While personally I want all that info, and more, AND I don't like Brammo losing time and ground to Zero AND I fear a bit of an Aptera situation (great product that just takes too long to get to market and thus the Big Boys-Nissan and Ford with cars, BMW and Honda with motorcycles--get a product out first and the little guy has little chance)...
Well, we don't know if the delay is due to battery testing--gotta get that right or today's sales are tomorrow's misery--or potential merger---which could take away the Aptera worry...if a big boy merged with Brammo (HD?), well suddenly floorspace and advertizing is no longer an issue**--- or .... well just about anything...AND at this point Brammo might lose a few sales, but really the market is kinda small right now (especially this time of year)...this board has really only a few members (some "fan"atical for sure :) )...and both Brammo and Zero have made just a few hundred sales of bikes so far...
Now I believe it is a high growth market and both could do very well AND that both should get good product out ASAP...and I don't "like" this delay (again, see Aptera)...
But I believe Brammo can survive this delay, easily.
But, yes, I would love to hear something "concrete" from Brammo. I hope soon. I also believe that they would love to give us more info...And that this "silent delay"...well to me it hints that something "big" might be just ahead...or I could be wrong :)
Gavin
**I have NO insider info...this is just random guessing (that I've made before)...HD would be fine...personally I'd prefer Brammo merge with Honda or Yamaha or BMW...but I could live with HD.
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Just saw the 2012 models earlier today. Sweet looking bikes, still too super-moto style for my tastes but damn is zero progressing quickly or what!
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Test drove the 2012 Zero DS today just for kicks... very fun. The bike has real pull! I say pull that because it feels like the bike is being pulled when you give it throttle, rather than pushed like when I give my gixxer throttle. Compared to the 2011 Zero I test rode its NIGHT and DAY, the 2012 DS is way better... brakes are another huge improvement. Would be nice if I had enough cash to buy the Empulse and the DS ;)... but for my money, I will just wait, the Empulse is more my jam anyway, but the DS would be a real kick off road!
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Yep, that's what it feels like to me too. Feels like you're being pulled into a giant gravity well, vs being pushed behind from a big angry bee : p
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But the Empulse is not available today, and we have no reliable guidance from Brammo as to when we can see the Empulse or Enertia Plus for sale.
IMHO Brammo needs to commit to a delivery date and final specifications for the Enertia Plus and Empulse and release some information about the battery pack. Withholding that information may have some strategic value, but an uncertain would-be consumer will eventually buy another product.
Somewhat ironic, in retrospect.