Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse Mods => Topic started by: vtbrammorider on June 12, 2015, 10:24:06 AM
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I've been sitting on this for a bit but I've decided to post it so here we go.
To start off, doing stuff below will void your warranty with extreme prejudice so I cannot recommend anyone ever do this. NOTE: per the warranty conditions:
“Any products tampered with, modified, adjusted, or repaired by any unauthorized party, including the owner;” will void the warranty.
Now that that is over with let’s get on to the fun stuff.
How To: Communicate with your Brammo (via CAN).
You are going to need a couple of things, the relatively cheap connectors are below, the really expensive stuff is at the end of the list :)
The can connectors are located behind the front mud guard (directly behind the front wheel) on the right side next to the coolant pressure cap. There 2 connectors that come with a water sealed male attached for environmental protection. Make sure you reinstall these before you ride the bike. If you want to make a connector the following parts will be needed:
Delphi Metri Pack 3P male
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Delphi-Connection-Systems/12129615/?qs=xyz6lfZ1ktKpe6eMONntKQ%3D%3D (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Delphi-Connection-Systems/12129615/?qs=xyz6lfZ1ktKpe6eMONntKQ%3D%3D)
lock
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=xyz6lfZ1ktIroM5KljafsA%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=xyz6lfZ1ktIroM5KljafsA%3d%3d)
seals
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=xyz6lfZ1ktIUGpWRLcAk%252bg%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=xyz6lfZ1ktIUGpWRLcAk%252bg%3d%3d)
male pins
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=DlE0rdXB%2fL2cvGLUNFIpnA%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=DlE0rdXB%2fL2cvGLUNFIpnA%3d%3d)
Now for the expensive stuff. Sevcon Gen4’s are designed to work with IXXAT Can-to-USB. You could plug a different can dongle into the bus and be able to see the signals but without the software (DVT) and the appropriate dongle there would be a lot more work involved to actually do anything.
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-gen4-pc-based-programming-kit.html (http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-gen4-pc-based-programming-kit.html)
Also you'll want a DB9 breakout board for wiring
Communication can also be established by stripping about 1CM of wire and sticking it in each of the connections. I used solid core 22AWG wire. This worked before my connectors came in but having the connector is much nicer.
The pinouts on the bike side are as follows:
M/C connector:
Blue wire is GND
Green wire is CAN L
Yellow wire is CAN H
Display connector:
Black wire is GND
Green wire is CAN L
Yellow wire is CAN H
M/C is 100kbaud and display is 500kbaud. DO NOT EVER connect the two, they're not isolated! No termination resistors are necessary as the bus is already internally terminated.
Using the IXXAT USB-to-CAN compact with driver V 3.5 the pinout is as follows on the 9 pin Sub-D connector :
Pin/signal
1/-
2/CAN-Low
3/GND
4/-
5/-
6/-
7/CAN-High
8/-
9/-
So that is all of the connection stuff. To initiate communication you can do the following:
Power up order: using DVT
1) Everything off
2) Make the connection between the Delphi plug and the IXXAT dongle
3) Plug the dongle into your computer
4) Power up the bike (suggest using a rear stand for validation however kickstand switch will not keep the Sevcon from enabling) you must both Key on and “start” the bike, having it in its running condition to turn on the Sevcon.
5) launch DVT
For reference check out the following:
[url=https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/DVT%20Tutorial.pdf]https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/DVT%20Tutorial.pdf (https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/DVT%20Tutorial.pdf)[/url]
I'll be interested to here what people think of this, love it, hate it, why would you ever post this?
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This is fantastic information, thank you for posting!
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Very cool stuff, if you could post a step by step for setting up econ mode with full regen, that'd be great :)
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Thanks, depending on how this goes I may do a follow up post on regen. There are some things you can and can't do without higher lever programing privileges.
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As this is the MODS portion of the forum I guess I will continue with what have I changed so far. At this time I have 2 versions of software for my bike, one fore the street and one for the track.
The street version is very much the OEM settings with the exception of regen. In sport mode I have reduced it from 18% to 12%. In normal mode it is also 12%. I spent a bit of time working on it and from what I can tell you cannot have less regen in sport mode than in normal mode without a higher level application password. The same goes for torque, you cannot have more torque in normal mode than in sport mode. If I do figure out how to make a true eco mode I will do it. I'm probably not going to go in depth on how to change regen because if you follow all the steps of the origional post on this thread (and read the sevcon documentation) it is fairly easy as DVT gives you access to change most everything about your setup, not that I reccomend that.
My track profile is a slightly HOT profile on which I still need to perform testing to validate temperatures. Normal mode is the same as sport mode in the street version (12% regen). Sport mode adds ~10% more peak torque from 0-4200 rpm. From then on it ramps back in to the origional sport mode torque speed profile which is done to preserve the origional current draw limit on the batteries. (Basically I'm allowing an AC current increase but keeping the DC current the same).
Definitely still have some validating to do with the track setup but what I mentioned above is what I intend anyways. Hopefully this is a little more interesting than a windscreen addition or a tail light mod :P .
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Further update:
I flashed my track profile over to the bike and am going to try to validate it on my morning commute. To do so I've installed the CAN logger shown in the attachment. If all goes well I will tidy up the routing and plan on using it on my track day in July.
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Finally got the log of the morning commute from Friday and it appears everything I did worked! Motor temp never got above a balmy 60C even with a liberal wrist.
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Have you considered modifying other people's Empulses and charging them to recoup your investment?
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Ya I don't really want to take that on, just wanted to disseminate some information so other people can do it if they want.
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if you need I have the can protocol of the charger (eltek Valere) and also some basic code to interface the charger with arduino to get some data out from the charger packet , like grid tesion , grid frequency , charger temperature and so on
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Weekend Track report:
Nothing really surprising here, it was a hot summer day at NCCAR/Bike with temps in the 90's so heat became an issue. As suggested from other posts I went with the pop-up and fan to help cool the bike during charging and that definitely helped a ton. I was able to get 24A charging current in the morning when it was cool but most of the day it was going at about 17A. I ended up skipping 2 sessions total, the one after lunch and the last session of the day because I decided to just go all out the second to last one. Ended up getting about 80 track miles in on the day.
NCCAR is probably not the most exciting track in my opinion, lots of long constant radius turns and one long straight. However it is great as a place to work on your form while leaned over because you are that way for so long. I can see why people have been trying the 42T option. Even on a giant straight I only saw about 108, its like you hit a wall around 100 and there are still revs to be had.
I did have some issues with dragging some of the hard-parts, of course the solution of "get better" applies here but maybe one day we'll see some of those Woodcraft Rearsets that accommodate a kickstand. More pictures to follow but here is what I have so far.
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Between the performance mod and the sprocket change, can you describe the difference in performance of stock vs modified? I'm getting close to needing a new chain and sprockets but also want more power from the bike...
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Do you could use this communication with the ECU, to check and perform maintenance?
and if so what is really there to make and look?
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Between the performance mod and the sprocket change, can you describe the difference in performance of stock vs modified? I'm getting close to needing a new chain and sprockets but also want more power from the bike...
I haven't done the sprocket change yet... in the middle of moving to Detroit so I probably won't be able to have more fun until mid August. Anyways, I added ~ 10% more motor torque between 0 and 4200 rpm. Interestingly the change to a 42T from a 38T sprocket is also about a 10% change. So I would think that in the low RPM my setup with stock gearing would feel the same as if I had a 42T sprocket on there until field weakening is reached and I need to ramp back down the stator current to keep from hitting the battery current limit. I still think I'm going to put on the 42T sprocket in addition to the profile change cuz reasons below.
Based on what I experienced on the track, coming out of a 30-40mph hairpin onto a long straight I was hitting 105-108 at my braking marker (somewhere around 6krpm in 6th I believe). Torque significantly drops off after 7K so I would like to make a gearing change so that I would be hitting about 7Krpm in 6th at or slightly before my brake marker.
Also to add to the argument to do the gearing change there is this thread:http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2312.0 (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2312.0)
Do you could use this communication with the ECU, to check and perform maintenance?
and if so what is really there to make and look?
Katacrak, I haven't really done this to do any maintenance, its all been about getting a bit more performance where I can.
Also, pictures or it didn't happen :)
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So I would think that in the low RPM my setup with stock gearing would feel the same as if I had a 42T sprocket on there until field weakening is reached and I need to ramp back down the stator current to keep from hitting the battery current limit.
It would need some work and engeenering but what about adding supercaps to increase the current without hitting the battery current limit?
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I had some thoughts around putting a small high C rated pack in parallel with a main pack to boost the peak current ratings of a given system however it would require its own BMS and I'm not really sure what the balancing implications would be. Bolt 2 was 2 parallel strings of the same cells and that was difficult enough, Im sure mismatched capacity and even chemistry systems would be even more of a nightmare.
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today I ordered the battery for adding 3kwh to the empulse , the pack will have is own BMS and in case of problem it will autodisconnect from the main pack.
Battery are low C , high capacity (Panasonic NCR18650B or LG INR18650 MJ1 ) , i'm more interested in extending the range than improving the performace.
Pack will be a 10p28s placed under the seat between the end of the charger and the license plate. Battery box is strong enough to work also as support for rear luggage box
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today I ordered the battery for adding 3kwh to the empulse , the pack will have is own BMS and in case of problem it will autodisconnect from the main pack.
Battery are low C , high capacity (Panasonic NCR18650B or LG INR18650 MJ1 ) , i'm more interested in extending the range than improving the performace.
Pack will be a 10p28s placed under the seat between the end of the charger and the license plate. Battery box is strong enough to work also as support for rear luggage box
Awesome! Would love to hear an update once it's installed.
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Awesome! Would love to hear an update once it's installed.
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Yes! a build thread with pictures would be pretty sweet. How heavy is this new pack you're putting on?
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Updated eco mode to 90% torque (about the original sport mode) and 0 regen in preparation for Road America in the event my hot mode runs too hot there.
Sport mode still has 12% regen.
Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
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I would love to see a low torque / high regen mode for maximizing range. How complicated is the procedure for making these adjustments? Also can you adjust throttle response?
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It isn't that hard. You have a normal mode, and a sport mode with each their own regen setting and max current (i.e. low torque). Haven't played with throttle response, but it's there.
Might dig into it this weekend a little with the adapter and DVT software I've got.
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I would love to see a low torque / high regen mode for maximizing range. How complicated is the procedure for making these adjustments? Also can you adjust throttle response?
You can adjust throttle response but that doesn't get rid of the driveline backlash.
Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
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Backlash isn't my concern. I feel an eco mode for cruising on the highway (the place you truly need eco mode) would benefit from a sloppier throttle so you aren't wasting precious watts on constant small fluctuations of the throttle.
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Yeah, I think for me I'd want:
- Sport Mode with max current limit and 12-15% regen
- Eco mode with low current limit (less than now) and near 0% regen