Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse => Topic started by: FreepZ on January 24, 2013, 07:56:54 PM
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I finally broke down and called the bike dealer in Tampa to ask them for an ETA on my Empulse R (I've been trying not to be too obnoxious about it), and the dealer said that he expected a truck with 5 bikes to arrive in Tampa by the end of the month, and that one of those bikes would be mine!
Woohoo!
Of course I'm not going to really believe it until the bike is under my butt, but the signs are are looking pretty good. :)
My first challenge is riding the bike from the dealership in Tampa, over to my office in Maitland, which is about 113 miles away. (Yeah, nothing like Terry's trek across the country, but plenty long for me.)
Here's my planned route (https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Euro+Cycles+of+Tampa+Bay,+8509+Gunn+Highway,+Odessa,+FL+33556&daddr=28.0324965,-82.4273772+to:27.9986777,-82.3188295+to:28.020545,-82.178807+to:28.0318039,-82.037066+to:1401+Town+Center+Drive,+Lakeland,+FL+to:28.0842277,-81.9532059+to:9801+International+Drive+Orlando+,+Fl+32829+to:1950+Summit+Park+Dr,+Orlando,+FL&hl=en&ll=28.353942,-81.937408&spn=1.226643,1.674042&sll=28.056227,-82.345276&sspn=0.307522,0.41851&geocode=FdyTrAEdB_MT-ykF021Wt-rCiDHdb4wfrxOW7g%3BFfC9qwEdD0IW-ylZt9xeV8bCiDETIXbGBp4wWw%3BFdU5qwEdE-oX-yl55g1AScnCiDGYuF_aw4P9fA%3BFUGPqwEdCQ0a-yl7crTc-jTdiDH0hjXvhPBCvQ%3BFTu7qwEdtjYc-ymrSXHyKDjdiDHVzXMOP_3Yag%3BFThGqwEdYBwd-ymj1R-JFjndiDEVlhcI4Ozq2w%3BFQOIrAEdS34d-yk1M3fStEDdiDGva-BWoitvTw%3BFezIsQEdsuMk-ymRyx9hNX7niDGy5jxi2D-kOg%3BFej3tAEdiOYl-ymtQYXnHnHniDEodyHh7lu9Cw&dirflg=t&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=12&via=1,2,3,4,6&t=m&z=10) with a couple of stops along the way to charge.
I've calculated that I should be able to do the entire trip in about 5 hours, provided:
- The battery will be fully charged at the dealership.
- I recharge for 1.5 hours at the first stop, and 1 hour at the second.
- The charging stations will be Level II.
- I keep under 65 mph on the highway.
My plans are based on a bunch of estimations* and assumptions, but I've hopefully included enough safety margin so my bad data won't get me into trouble.
Questions for people who have already got their Empulse bikes:
What do I need to know about the break in period?
- Don't exceed XXX rpm?
- Stay in Normal mode?
- Anything else?
* For anybody interested, here's the math that I'm using (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhH9n2kvW1yEdG02S1N6dGN6M1lJc1dTbEtVeHNhUUE) to plan the trip.
The important number is the Capacity for each leg of the trip (if that gets to 0, it's game over).
My calculations assume that there is a linear relationship between speed and energy consumption which I know is not true, but errs on the side of safety.
I figure that the battery level will let me know close I am following my planned energy usage, which will tell me if I can speed up or if I have to slow down.
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Without going through all of your math, for going long distances in electric vehicles the slower you go the less time it takes to get there (within limits). With 121 mile city range, there is some relaxed pace at which you could do the entire trip with no charging at all in less than 5 hours - just keep it to 25-35 MPH roads (even the city range was measured with a portion of the trip hitting 55MPH so there is some leeway there, the average including stops is around 20MPH, but that averages in the time spent stopped). Even if you don't quite make it, a much shorter charging stop will bridge the remainder if you stay off the highways.
If you really only average 20MPH, then it might take a similar amount of time, but if you can keep going at 25-35 (more boulevards than stop and go city) then you could make it in 4 hours or so.
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What you say is true, but my goals are:
1. To ride the bike home.
2. To have fun.
It's going to be more fun to ride the bike faster and take a few breaks along the way, rather than to ride slowly down the road for 4 hours straight (my butt hurts just thinking about it).
There's a movie theater at the first stop, and by the time the movie is over, the bike will be fully charged.
There's a mall at the second stop, with plenty of restaurant choices.
I'm getting a lift over to Tampa from a friend who drives a Volt and knows where all the free chargers are, so I don't even expect to pay for any of the electricity (except through patronage of the places I'm going to visit while waiting for the bike to charge).
The total time may be longer with breaks, but I think that the highway speeds and breaks will make the journey more much more fun. :D
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I'd need to do the math, but I think the fastest full-loop charge/discharge route is when you keep your discharge speed roughly equal to charge speed. For my bike, this means around 1 kW = 15-20 mph. For the Empulse, this means 3.5 kW = 35-40 mph.
Of course, you don't have to do a full-loop charge/discharge for the entire charge.. just about 1/2 of it.
I would budget a little more charge time than you plan on .. depending on the temperature you may see a little less than expected range. You really don't want to bust out the MTS towing plan with fewer than 150 miles on the bike : )
Otherwise, your range and energy figures look pretty reasonable. I'll echo what flar said about a slower route being faster, if possible - 30 more minutes spent riding @ 45 mph might save an hour of charging. (on the other hand, you can spend that hour charging sitting on your ass sipping a drink and reading a book.. so..)
However, I also suspect 3.5 hours to charge the bike is not a linear rate. Can any Empulse owners confirm?
28 * 4.2 = 117.6 V terminating voltage.
Eltek claims 170 - 450 VDC operating voltage, with custom voltages available upon request.
Let's say Brammo specified maximum operating voltage of 125 V. 3.5 kW / 125 V = 28 A.
90 A / 28 A = 3.2 hour charge rate, at least for the constant current portion of the charge curve. So the charging might be about 10% faster than just a simple time division might indicate.
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Great to hear you're getting your bike soon Freepz! Congrats. Have fun getting that fine machine home!
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I also called on Wed. and Jaime was not able to give me an answer but he said he would call Brammo to get an ETA but I haven't heard anything... but he did say my R is one of the five bikes being delivered. I'm not expecting the delivery next week... I wish someone would at least call or email and let me know that the bike has shipped with an ETA!
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What you say is true, but my goals are:
1. To ride the bike home.
2. To have fun.
It's going to be more fun to ride the bike faster and take a few breaks along the way, rather than to ride slowly down the road for 4 hours straight (my butt hurts just thinking about it).
There's a movie theater at the first stop, and by the time the movie is over, the bike will be fully charged.
There's a mall at the second stop, with plenty of restaurant choices.
Sounds like a good plan. Have fun on the ride! I think that'll put you at the longest point to point ride of anyone on this forum : ) Maybe the longest point to point ride I've heard of on a stock bike.
I wish Brammo would make a dual Eltek charger for touring - the Empulse then would be just as capable as Terry's heavily modded Zero. But it's definitely possible to do a longer ride even with the stock bike.
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I also called on Wed. and Jaime was not able to give me an answer but he said he would call Brammo to get an ETA but I haven't heard anything... but he did say my R is one of the five bikes being delivered. I'm not expecting the delivery next week... I wish someone would at least call or email and let me know that the bike has shipped with an ETA!
During ttxgpfan's interview with Brian (http://esbk.co/2013/01/24/esbk-studios-episode-16-interview-with-brian-wismann-of-brammo/) on the 14th of Jan, at about 8m00s into the episode Richard asked about production (thanks Richard!) and Brian said:
"We've got a dealer in Tampa, Florida, that is due to get their production bikes here pretty soon"
That was 11 days ago, so it's going to be even sooner than "pretty soon". :D
I have to say thank you to the 4 other Empulse R buyers in Florida. I'm guessing that my bike is being shipped sooner rather than later because there are enough orders to fill a truck.
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Congrats Freep! Totally stoked for you. And that plan sounds great. Ride, charge while watching a movie, ride, eat at a relaxed pace, ride. Glad you found the podcast helpful. Honestly, I think they should have sent more than 5 bikes to Florida. I know 2 guys that plan on checking them out when they get there. And one of them has money burning a whole.
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If the charge stations at your planned stops are Chargepoint stations, then you should get a card with the bike. If you have an account with them, then you can reserve time at any of their chargers. Since you will need some guarantees that a charger is available, you might want to plan ahead and set up the reservations...
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Charge point is all over Florida. A Volt driving buddy of mine says that he has an extra card that I can assign to my account after I've registered with them.
I think that you can even call some number to activate the charging stations, so the card is just a convenience.
I'm going to register with charge point some time soon.
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I had a go at signing up with Charge Point. Sadly, they don't have any electric motorcycles in their list of vehicles, so I have to use "Other".
One question that they are asking is the Charging Speed (in kW). Can anybody tell me what number to put in there?
Of course I can always lie and say that I'm driving a Volt, since I don't think the cards are limited to a given vehicle, but it would be nice to report honestly. Also, if their website was really good it would allow customers to say what "Other" means, and then they could update their website to include common new vehicles.
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You might want to try mentioning this on their Facebook page. I've gotten positive responses from other companies when I've asked questions in a friendly manner.
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Empulse charger DC output is max 3.5 kW. It can draw a maximum of 16A from the wall, so 3.8 kW maximum input @ 240V.
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It charges 9.3kWh(10.2 max) in 3.5 hours so I put 3 for charging speed. They only allow whole numbers for some odd reason.
You should get a card (with a nice Brammo logo on it) in the welcome packet. If you have their app loaded on your phone when you take delivery then you should be able to activate that card from the app. Plus, they are running a "2 free cards with a paid account" promotion right now so if you plan to carry a balance on it then you really won't need any more cards than that...
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You should get a card (with a nice Brammo logo on it) in the welcome packet.
Do you mean that the Brammo welcome packet includes a Charge Point card? :D
That would be sweet!
I've already installed the app on my smart phone. I have to register to use it though, and part of that process is selecting how many cards I want or entering the number on the Charge Point card. If Brammo is going to give me a Brammo branded Charge Point card, then I'm going to use that.
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Yes, a "keychain sized" card with the brammo logo on it in the Empulse welcome packet along with info on the Chargepoint network.
Though, bring some "goo gone" with you (I'm guessing a dealer would have something similar in their service shop). They didn't use a very friendly "temporary adhesive" for it. :(
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Stay tuned. I *think* this thread might get exciting tomorrow. ;)
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Stay tuned. I *think* this thread might get exciting tomorrow. ;)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/boogygrl/popcorn.gif)
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Yep! Me and four other lucky people are going to be getting bikes over in Tampa! The bikes are over there right now! I'm going to be headed over there tomorrow morning and then riding it back. If anybody would like to follow along, I'll be posting updates on twitter (https://twitter.com/BrammoFreepZ (https://twitter.com/BrammoFreepZ)).
Check out my blog post (http://freepz.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/planning-for-the-big-day/) too.
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SWEET!
Gavin
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Yep! Me and four other lucky people are going to be getting bikes over in Tampa! The bikes are over there right now! I'm going to be headed over there tomorrow morning and then riding it back. If anybody would like to follow along, I'll be posting updates on twitter (https://twitter.com/BrammoFreepZ (https://twitter.com/BrammoFreepZ)).
Check out my blog post (http://freepz.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/planning-for-the-big-day/) too.
Yes Sir I'm one of the lucky 5! However I'm working out the financing with my credit union and will shop them with Sheffield. I'll be calling EuroCycles in the morning to work out the details. I live in Palm Beach County so riding it home is to far so I'll just have the paperwork overnighted and the bike delivered ASAP!
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following you on Twitter.
Sorry to hear about the crate situation. The dealer in Austin mentioned the same thing happened to them! They really need to get this situation fixed ASAP!
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Wow. That SUCKS. Just saw the information about the bikes damaged during shipping. That is definitely NOT the same issue as the rear sliding around in the crate. These bikes are shipped in very secure, motorcycle-specific crates and are tied down front and rear. This appears to be a (big) shipping company error...
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wow! thanks for the update Brian. I hope the shipping company rectifies the situation.
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Sorry to hear about the damage...GREAT to hear you have your bike!
Gavin
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wow! thanks for the update Brian. I hope the shipping company rectifies the situation.
Yeah... checking in on this, the shipping company has already indicated the damage happened in transit, so there will be a claim. Bummer for the customers expecting their bikes, but we'll get the dealership the parts they need to make these bikes good as new. The damage is also less than some originally thought. I am happy to hear that this will not disrupt the Odyssey and at least 2 of these bikes will be delivered this weekend!
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:-[
Oh no I'm one of the unlucky 3 :'(
I have the full and complete confidence that this will be fixed. Now on my bill of sale Euro Cycles has passed a freight charged on to me of $495. This is the freight charge from Brammo to Euro. First I feel that this should not be passed on to me, second now that the product was damaged during shipping I definitely feel that this charge should not be passed on to me. Will someone from Brammo like to help me with this please? :-\
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almost all new vehicles have a destination charge.... nothing new there.... but if they screwed up, they're only really liable for repair of the damage.
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Yeah, I think the shipping fee is pretty standard when you buy a new vehicle.
Of course, it's not standard for the bikes to be delivered in transit. They should be repaired to identical-to-new condition.
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almost all new vehicles have a destination charge.... nothing new there.... but if they screwed up, they're only really liable for repair of the damage.
Well in my opinion, if the shipping company screwed up then the cost of shipping the damaged bikes should be absorbed by the shipping company as well... ???
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Well, it all boils down to what the shipping agreement was between Brammo and that shipping company. Damage insurance may not pay out for the cost of shipping, only the amount of damage.
So both you and I would be guessing right now, but I highly doubt that a shipping company would refund for cost of shipping.
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It's not my area of expertise within the company, so I don't have much more to add. Just that there's already a team working on this (over the weekend) to straighten it out. I have no doubt that they'll do whatever they can to make our customers happy.
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Just a quick update, since I have to ride another hour and a half from Maitland to Melbourne next (on the old gasser, while the Empulse is charging).
I made it back home!! Woohoo!
The bike performed admirably once the dealer replaced the broken parts with bits off the non-broken bikes. (Thanks, fellas, for the parts ;))
Jamie, from the dealership did an outstanding job of getting something for me to take home. I was quite sad to find out that the bikes were damaged after making it 2/3 of the way over there, but happy to get hold of my bike today, even if it did have bits from other bikes on it.
One thing that the dealership needs is a level 2 charger. I think that they wanted to have the bike fully charged when I left with it, but they only had 110 V available. Once I discovered that that was the reason why I was still waiting, I told them to pass me the bike as soon as possible and that I would find a level 2 charging station along the way.
Anyway, I have to run right now. More details some other time...
P.S. Sorry for the lack of Twitter updates: I ran out of battery -- on my phone. :-(
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Richard,
Congrats on receiving the bike and getting her home! Sorry you had some last minute drama with the shipment damage, but hopefully it was all forgotten when you got the bike on the road. I'll be looking forward to more updates and thoughts as you get a chance to get more familiar with the bike and get past the break-in period so you can see what she's capable of in Sport mode! ;)
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Congrats and don't worry one bit about bits from other bikes... they work and that's what counts. I had a bit of drama and it all comes out, like Brian sez, once you hit the road.
FWIW, I was good and stayed in "Normal" mode until 600 miles. I highly recommend that to others, and not just because the manual says that's the way to go. What's really cool about it: at 600 miles, you put her in "Sport" mode and that permanent grin you developed from owning an Empulse, doubles in size. It's like getting a whole new bike all over again.
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Huge congrats Freepz! Have fun and ride safe... so jealous.
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Congrats dude! Can't wait to hear how the trip went down.
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Just a quick update, since I have to ride another hour and a half from Maitland to Melbourne next (on the old gasser, while the Empulse is charging).
I made it back home!! Woohoo!
Anyway, I have to run right now. More details some other time...
P.S. Sorry for the lack of Twitter updates: I ran out of battery -- on my phone. :-(
Congrats on getting your bike,, I'm still waiting for mine,,, Mondays the earliest I can pick it up,, and that makes 40 days since I paid for it!!! Shipping from the mainland really bites!!! & my bikes been on a journey and a half!!! Have fun with yours and we can probably get up some mileage in the next few weeks comparable!!!
Cat jn Hawaii 8)
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I've written up some details about my trip to pick up the bike on my blog.
Take a look when you have a moment.
http://freepz.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/a-bike-odyssey/ (http://freepz.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/a-bike-odyssey/)
I'm a bit short on time right now, but I'll write up my first impressions some in the near future.
@Brian Please send my thanks to the team for creating that bike. The whole idea of traveling 100 miles without using any gas is an idea that's taking a little bit of time to sink in, but it's pretty amazing.
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I've written up some details about my trip to pick up the bike on my blog.
Take a look when you have a moment.
http://freepz.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/a-bike-odyssey/ (http://freepz.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/a-bike-odyssey/)
I'm a bit short on time right now, but I'll write up my first impressions some in the near future.
Great blog entry, FreepZ! Congrats.
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And what's your story, implo?
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I think it's a lot less happy than my story. I was PMing implovator about meeting up at the dealership while we picked up our bikes, but things didn't work out that way. :(
I just occurred to me that I missed seeing another Empulse buyer while I was over at Tampa. Since my bike wasn't going to be fixed for a while, I left the dealership for a couple of hours, at which time I think that somebody else picked up their bike. Oh well. Perhaps we'll have a meet up some time in the future.
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@Brian Please send my thanks to the team for creating that bike. The whole idea of traveling 100 miles without using any gas is an idea that's taking a little bit of time to sink in, but it's pretty amazing.
Will do! This kind of feedback is why we do this! :)
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I think it's a lot less happy than my story. I was PMing implovator about meeting up at the dealership while we picked up our bikes, but things didn't work out that way. :(
I just occurred to me that I missed seeing another Empulse buyer while I was over at Tampa. Since my bike wasn't going to be fixed for a while, I left the dealership for a couple of hours, at which time I think that somebody else picked up their bike. Oh well. Perhaps we'll have a meet up some time in the future.
Yep, my story wasn't as rosy. When I heard from FreepZ that he was contacted by Euro Cycles, I called up and found out that there was some kind of mix-up someplace and my White Empulse R wasn't on the truck. Bollocks. I half-wanted to press the issue and have white plastics overnighted in order to preserve my pre-order number (lowest at Euro Cycle). The buyers had already been contacted though, and I couldn't stand the thought disappointing three other lucky Empulse riders.
https://twitter.com/eurocyclesjamie/status/300368654195908608
No worries though. Another shipment to Euro Cycles is leaving OR tomorrow and should be ready for me to pick up in just under two weeks. It's been a long wait, so what's another two weeks.
I'm really glad that FreepZ got his bike and was able to actually RIDE it all the way home. Would suck if the first bike went to an out-o-towner that just loaded it up in his truck and left. :o Still, it would have been nice to be meet up with the first Empulse owners in FL. Maybe we can do a track day at Jennings GP. :)
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Sorry about the mix-up, implovator. I did see your white bike in the factory today - it's a sweet looking bike. I'll wipe the drool off before it ships... ;)
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No worries...you can leave the drool on there. :)
Feel free to surprise me with something in the crate though...6-pack from Caldera Brewing Co, TTX Ohlins bits, prototype rearsets, autographed photo of Steve-O high-fiving E-Boz at the beach.
(http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/TopGunHomoeroticVolleyball.jpg)
They do make a good team.
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I just heard from Euro Cycles that their first White Empulse (mine) has been uncrated and is ready to go. After all these years, I'm finally letting myself get excited for this bike. Heck, I even thought about taking the rest of the week off. :)
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I just heard from Euro Cycles that their first White Empulse (mine) has been uncrated and is ready to go. After all these years, I'm finally letting myself get excited for this bike. Heck, I even thought about taking the rest of the week off. :)
That's okay, I'm letting myself get excited for you getting your bike, too. You may take the week off, but damn it, you better come back here (or on your blog) and post some pics/videos.