Brammo Owners Forum
Brammo Empulse Discussion => Brammo Empulse => Topic started by: 00049 (AKA SopFu) on February 16, 2013, 09:51:58 PM
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I have been told my bike is on it's way to Milwaukee, and should be there on Monday. Since Monday is a holiday, that works out great for me. I'll be calling the dealer first thing to confirm delivery, and once confirmed will begin the two hour trip up. The plan is to ride the bike the 110 miles back to the western 'burbs of Chicago. Weather is forecasted as upper 30s, with a couple hours of rain in the afternoon. I have proper gear, and my girlfriend will be leading the way with a custom GPS route to avoid interstates (mostly), and to hit a charging point half way (funny story on this later).
A few questions - what is the SOC of the delivered bike? The dealer will have a couple hours of me driving, and at least an hour of paperwork before I get a handshake and the keys, so I'm assuming even if they do not have a level II charger that they will be able to give me a fully charged bike if it is delivered to them with at least 60%. The next uncertainty is how much is the cold going to affect the range? My first stop is planned 65 miles from the dealer, and most of that will be at ~60mph on flat midwestern roads. Will I make it, or should I plan for another stop? There is a chance I'll want to stop and warm up anyway, but I'm curious what current owners think will happen.
I plan at stopping at Rosen Nissan in Gurney to charge. They are fine with me using their charger, but said their charger is for the Leaf. I'm hoping they mean J1772 and not CHAdeMO (the person I talked to wasn't sure...). If no J1772, it appears there's a Chargepoint station about a mile away. But I'd rather go show off my toy at the dealer (and there's a good pizza place right next door). Rosen wasn't my first choice, however. PlugShare shows Gary Lang Mitsubishi as having a public charger, but after talking to their sales person, they said they wouldn't take their sales vehicles off to let me have a charge. I am disappointed with this response, and sent them a email questioning their marketing of EVs after I confirmed Rosen would let me charge. I also added a comment to the PlugShare website so no one plans a trip through Gary Lang expecting a charge.
From Rosen I have 45 miles to my house, and I'm planning on all of that being slow Chicago interstates.
It's been 26 months since I placed my pre-order. I'm getting the 49th bike off the line, so at least I have a good story to tell! I can't wait!
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The Empulse has a heater for the batteries to keep them warm, but I don't know the details. Either way, you will have reduced range (10%?). I think I would wait for a full charge. Sounds like it's cutting it a bit close. But that is just from reading peoples experience on here.
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It's been 26 months since I placed my pre-order. I'm getting the 49th bike off the line, so at least I have a good story to tell! I can't wait!
Ok, if I already have my bike,, how would I know what # my bike is on the production cycle???
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I'd guess that 65 miles at 60 mph on a new battery in the cold is too close for comfort. There's a big difference if you can take a route that will keep your speed around 45 mph. Or just plan on charging sooner, which if the temps are low, would be my choice anyway.
Congratulations on the fruit of the long wait: you are gonna love this sweet machine!
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Hi SopFu,
It looks like our bikes are on the same shipment, #45 for me. I also live in the western burbs of Chi town. Unfortunately, I have to watch my kids on Monday. Would have loved to have made it a group ride though.
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Ok, if I already have my bike,, how would I know what # my bike is on the production cycle???
Look at your VIN.
Hi SopFu,
It looks like our bikes are on the same shipment, #45 for me. I also live in the western burbs of Chi town. Unfortunately, I have to watch my kids on Monday. Would have loved to have made it a group ride though.
That's weird. Mark had your VIN like a week before he had mine. I heard you got to ride the pre-production demo at the IMS. We'll have to get together sometime! I'm in Wheaton, BTW.
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Congratulations!
As you may know from reading my blog posts (planning-for-the-big-day (http://freepz.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/planning-for-the-big-day/) and a-bike-odyssey (http://freepz.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/a-bike-odyssey/)), I did something fairly similar, except that the weather was a lot warmer and I wasn't trying to go 65 miles in one stretch (although I did skip one of my planned charging points and ended up doing about 60 miles, most of which was on a highway at 60 mph).
Here are my thoughts on what you are planning to do:
SOC at the dealer
Ideally, the dealership will finish everything the day before and have a full charge when you're ready to go. I don't think that Euro Cycles (my dealer in Tampa) started charging the bike until after they had finished repairing it, and they took it on a test ride to make sure it was fixed. They didn't have a level 2 charger, and they were happy to have me wait all day for the bike to charge with the supplied level 1 charger, but I knew that a level 2 charger was close by, so I took the bike with only 75% SOC. I presume the bike came mostly charged, since they were only plugged in for a few hours.
My advice: If the dealership has a level 2 charger, fill up before you go. If not and there's a level 2 charger somewhere nearby, fill up there. If you have no other choice, use the level 1 charger at the dealership to fill up. Whatever the case, be sure to fill up to 100% before you get on your way.
65 miles at 60 mph in cold weather
That's going to be cutting it very close. I don't think "new battery" is an issue since batteries carry the most energy when they are new. The cold will affect the battery a bit. I was out in 54 degrees last night and although I was freezing, my battery didn't seem too affected. 30 degrees is a lot colder, so you may see some affect.
My advice: Start off a bit slower, like 55 mph or less, and keep your eye on the SOC. If you are doing better than expected (i.e. you're at 1/4 of your trip but only at 78% SOC), then pick it up a bit. If you're doing worse that expected, then slow down. The bike will go very far if you go slow enough, but don't expect to do another 30 miles with only 10% SOC, no matter how slow you go.
Also, you'll notice that the range estimator will bounce around a lot. 28 miles, then 87 miles, then 43 miles... Don't worry about that too much, as long as your SOC is where it should be.
Dress warm
Make sure that you really dress warm. The bike has no fairings at all, and you'll be getting that arctic blast right in your chest for a few hours. It's brutal.
Have a backup plan
There's a very real possibility that you won't make it 65 miles (although, if you go slow enough, you certainly will be able to), so try to plan for that. Happily, in Central Florida, there were plenty of public level 2 charging stations, so I had lots of fallback options. I don't know about where you are. At worst, there's always the level 1 option. It's slow, but a lot quicker than pushing the bike!
Have fun! :))
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Congrats on the almost delivery. Thanks for sticking with us.
I actually think you'll be fine on the trip with your plan. The bike does ship with a mostly full SOC (around 70% I believe), but the dealer IS required to do a test ride as part of the pre-delivery inspection (PDI in dealer talk). The bike will have 14-15 miles on it from the dyno test and factory test ride, so expect to see around 20 miles or so on the clock when you receive it.
The best thing the dealer can do for you to prepare for your journey is to keep the bike plugged in and inside a warm shop so the batteries can stay nice and cozy. At 30 degrees, they'll probably cool during the ride, which means you'll receive a "cold battery" warning on the display. The battery heaters will try to maintain a minimum temperature and discharging the battery does create heat as well, so they will probably warm themselves during the trip and that message will go away.
I'm guessing the Leaf dealer has a Level 2 charger as it would be very expensive for them to install a Chademo.
I like FreepZ suggestion of starting slow and picking up speed as you see that you'll be fine on range. I predict success, although it might be nerve wracking dealing with a brand new bike and range anxiety in the first ride. ;)
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That's weird. Mark had your VIN like a week before he had mine. I heard you got to ride the pre-production demo at the IMS. We'll have to get together sometime! I'm in Wheaton, BTW.
You're right I was originally told that my bike came in with the demo unit for the dealership and I did have a great opportunity of an indoor test drive at the IMS in Rosemont. It might have been the setting but the bike seems quieter than what I've seen from the videos. Nevertheless, you will be please.
When I spoke to Mark last Thursday he told me the bike was on it's way and arriving on Monday. ??? I didn't push the issue since I figured he was confused. Plus I'm not in too much of a rush to take possession of the bike until the weather gets a little better. One day we'll have to swap buying experience stories over a brew. ::)
I live in Naperville BTW. Congratulations and good luck on Monday.
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Thanks, everyone. I used to buy large batteries for a living (1million+ amp hours, they went into vehicles of the sinking type), so I am familiar with battery quirks. It does surprise me that the heaters will be on if I'm actively riding the bike, though. I plan on riding through downtown Milwaukee, so the first part of the first leg will be quite a bit slower. There is a stretch of ~40 miles with no level II chargers between Milwaukee and the far northern suburbs of Chicago.
The problem is my dealer is expecting the truck with my bike to arrive on Monday, and if so, I will be taking it the same day. If it's delivered with 70% and they are taking it for a short spin I may have an issue (which is more of a "time away from charging" issue than discharging since PDI shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 miles). If the bike doesn't come tomorrow I'll have to trailer it home since the weather is supposed to be awful for the rest of the week.
It looks like one of the hotels by their airport has a level II, so if I don't get a fully charged bike I could split the ride into a 23 mile stretch, and a 43 mile stretch. My girlfriend will be following, with tie downs in case we need a uHaul to finish the trip. I guess we'll see how things pan out. Wish me luck!
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Congrats! First bike gathering you go to pm me. I'm in Elgin, work in oak brook. Want to check it out!
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Congrats! First bike gathering you go to pm me. I'm in Elgin, work in oak brook. Want to check it out!
You don't happen to teach for NIU's MSP?
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No, I don't.
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The dealer still hasn't seen the bike. It's too bad because it's in the 50s, and still not really raining here. It would have been the perfect day to ride home! The high tomorrow is 20, and we're supposed to get 3 to 5 inches by Friday. :'(
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Sorry to hear that. Sometimes I think it would be best not to contact us until the bikes are actually in. If information is going to be given about the process it should be complete. From the time it is on the assembly line to delivery not this maybe it will be in on Monday stuff.
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Back when Craig and Brian were building Ariel Atom cars, they were among the first folks to let you log in and watch real-time streaming video of your car being built. Kind of wish they would do that now.
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Man, bummer. Nice day today.
I have a 3 rail shore lander motorcycle trailer if you want to borrow it. 20 is pretty cold...
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The dealer has mentioned delivery before, and since travel and I are so close to each other, we may be able to talk them into making a trip down. On the bright side, I wouldn't have been able to ride it again for a while because of the weather, so i'm not missing out on much.
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Took delivery today, and my Ducati sold! A very good day for me. Unfortunately it snowed 5" here last night and the roads are still a mix of slush and ice, so other than 6" inches in my garage, I haven't ridden it (or any Empulse, for that matter) yet. I'm out for a funeral for the next five days, but when I get back going for a ride will be the first thing I do!
Also, a big thanks to Suburban Motors for delivering the bike down. If they wouldn't have done that, it would have easily been a few more weeks before I could have made the trip to pick it up.
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/858741_10102550134282319_1892633307_o.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/402966_10102550135400079_402324650_n.jpg)
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Congrats!!!
Great service having them deliver...nice
Gavin
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Yes Congrats Sopfu! They delivered mine today too. I got to see yours on the Sprinter. Red seems to be a popular color. I chose that too. Next step, get it registered and wait for better weather.
I noticed you have yours inside, are you concerned with cold weather storage? The dealer charged mine fully and I'm going to have to drive it down to 70% but the owner's manual doesn't directly mention optimal storage temps.
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I'm storying inside because I don't have room in the garage.
Cold storage is actually better for the batteries, as long as they don't go dead. Colder temps = slower chemical reactions = longer shelf life. I'm actually suspecting EVs sold in colder climates to age better. In my experience, battery manufacturers that use air conditioning in the facilities consistently get better capacity and reliability out of their batteries, too. And that hallway doesn't get warmer than about 55F in the winter :)
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Congrats to both of you on receiving your bikes and as I've said to others - thank you for your patience! I'm anxious to hear how the Empulse R does in and around the windy city. Please post some photos of you with your bike so that we can put a face to an avatar!
Pretty cool that SopFu has sold a Ducati 1098 to make room for the Empulse R. Makes me feel better about putting my BMW S1000RR up for sale...
http://medford.craigslist.org/mcy/3606403124.html (http://medford.craigslist.org/mcy/3606403124.html)
I've still got a bit of a wait before my bike comes up in the queue, unfortunately.
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I did about 60 miles today with temps in the mid 30s. Most of that was running around trying to get all the pieces to install my heated gear. I followed Ain's install instructions, but used a CTek female plug instead of a Powerlet. Since my ICE already has a CTek leads on it I'll be able to swap the heated gear between bikes.
I did charge it for about an hour at home with the level 1, and for about 30 minutes on a public level 2, and ended the day with about 40% left. The entire day I was getting "Power Cutback, Battery Cold" warnings, except for after one short blast at 60mph. I was a little surprised at that since I was thrashing her from stoplight to stoplight, but did my best to keep the motor between 3k and 3.5k. I hit neutral about a dozen times throughout the day, I hope that gets better once the transmission is more broken in more. I noticed the clunk, but it didn't bother me at all.
I'll be riding it to my indoor go karting league tomorrow, which is about 35 miles away - 20 of that is interstate. There's a Level II near by, but I'm hoping the race track will let me charge there. Most of the guys are amateur racers, and they've been ribbing me over my wait more than anyone else. I can't wait to show them the bike is real!
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/c67.0.403.403/p403x403/394703_10102571673747059_1992206897_n.jpg)
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Awesome! I got the power cutback, it goes away once you ride it a bit and the battery heaters warm the batteries a bit.
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Glad you're out enjoying the bike, even in the cold weather. Regarding the battery cutback message - this will be aided by a software update that removes the message when there's no actual cutback occurring AND sets a higher target temperature for the internal heaters. The release just got issued to production, so service should get their hands on it next week. I'll get with Adam and put together a list of bug fixes and improvements that this release will address and post it to the forum.
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SopFu, let us know how that ride goes tomorrow. My commute happens to be just under 35 miles. I was only going to consider getting cold weather gear at the end of the upcoming season. However, with gas prices on the rise I might be able to justify an early purchase if your experience is good.
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Awesome! I got the power cutback, it goes away once you ride it a bit and the battery heaters warm the batteries a bit.
That's what surprised me - even riding for 20 minutes strait, the message never went off. Only when I was moving 11+KW for several minutes did the message go away, only to reappear once I was back on surface streets. I still don't know what full power feels like, but it definitely felt fast enough even with the cutback message displayed.
Brian - how will the software update be delivered? Is this something I'll be able to install myself? My dealer is still 120 miles away, and making a trip there for a non-essential update probably isn't going to happen.
Travel- I'll let you know how it goes. The windchill isn't bad enough of surface streets to need heat, so if you're not on interstates I would just get some heavily insulated stuff. The temp will probably be in the teens when I'm riding back from the karting, so I'll be able to test the gear out then.
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That's what surprised me - even riding for 20 minutes strait, the message never went off. Only when I was moving 11+KW for several minutes did the message go away, only to reappear once I was back on surface streets. I still don't know what full power feels like, but it definitely felt fast enough even with the cutback message displayed.
Brian - how will the software update be delivered? Is this something I'll be able to install myself? My dealer is still 120 miles away, and making a trip there for a non-essential update probably isn't going to happen.
Again - most of this is likely just the message being displayed when the batteries are cool, but no cutback is occuring. This is also the unfortunate side-effect of a very good thermal path from the cells to the aluminum battery enclosure - it works both ways. The cell heat can be dissipated very effectively when they get hot, BUT - they are also more easily influenced by ambient air temperature when it's cold. Because the pack is so large, you do need freeway speeds and around 10kW discharge (1C - not very aggressive) or repeated accelerations to warm the cells. The new software will make better use of the internal heaters, so it will not require riding as hard or as long.
Understood on the difficulties getting the software update for you and others that are far away from the dealer. It won't be perfect, but we'll work with you to get something figured out. Please be patient as our little company deals with these kinds of "gotchas". We want nothing more than to make your ownership as enjoyable as possible.
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Thanks, Brian. Even with the message displayed the bike felt plenty fast. My only other complaint so far is the 3500RPM limit for the first 150 miles. Why limit the fun right away? :)
But I should be hitting that mile marker tomorrow. Just in time to be going on travel again for work, and be without the bike for full week :'(
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Glad you're out enjoying the bike, even in the cold weather. Regarding the battery cutback message - this will be aided by a software update that removes the message when there's no actual cutback occurring AND sets a higher target temperature for the internal heaters. The release just got issued to production, so service should get their hands on it next week. I'll get with Adam and put together a list of bug fixes and improvements that this release will address and post it to the forum.
This isn't a bug to be fixed, but I'd love to see a new mode for the status line that lists all of the values together without a label so we can check more than one parameter at a time once we familiarize ourselves with the ordering. Is there enough room to list:
RNG/MTMP/ATMP/WATT
Something like:
120m/100F/65F/0KW
Or even eliminating the units to take up less space:
096/95/62/0.0
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The manual says if you hold down the black button for 2 seconds that it will cycle through the parameters, but I haven't been able to figure that out. I second Flar's suggestion of showing all parameters at once.
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+2, works for me: 120m/100F/65F/0KW
or just cycling through, with bigger numbers.
Holding down the black button for 2 seconds = precisely nada.
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I'm out exploring today. Looking for charging points. The first stop was at Two Brothers brewery, but there was a Tesla S already plugged in so I continued on. I made it to the Geneva courthouse after 32 cold miles with 43% left. It's in the heart of their downtown, and a great place to kill time. I doubt you'd be able to park there while court is in session, but it's great for weekends. I'm charging now while sitting in the All Chocolate Kitchen, and, yes, the name does the place justice. I plan on going for a bicycle ride when I get home to burn off the hot chocolate I hade. My next stop will be at the Glen Ellen charging point on my loop back.
I should be right at 300 miles when I get home, and none of that was over 40f. I bought heated gear, but the gloves have already been sent back since the left one stopped working :( hopefully the replacement pair arrives next week.
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If you did not know, The Centre in Elgin has a charger in the parking garage.