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Brammo Empulse / Re: Rideout planning
« Last post by Blue Thunder on Today at 02:08:44 AM »
Very usefull informaton. Thanks for that!

I indeed am aware that I have to plan my trips from charging point to charging point. However, EU mains is 240V/16amps and I'm pretty sure that I can charge at level II at virtually any destination point.

Only if Brammo would a be bit more clear about the capabilities of the onboard charger in EU.
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Brammo Empulse / Re: Rideout planning
« Last post by benswing on October 23, 2014, 10:04:39 PM »
This past summer I took a 6,000 mile trip on my 2012 Zero S and rode between 250-400 miles each day.  I was on my own and controlled my own schedule.  The charging system I used was a 5kW system which charged me up in 1-1.5hrs. 

For the type of group ride you are talking about, you can probably do 2 legs of the trip with other riders.

Here is what I have done to ride with a couple of friends on gas bikes:
1)  Ride to meeting point that has a charging station
2)  Charge up at a meeting point.
3)  Ride with friends to lunch/destination that has a charging station.
3)  Charge at lunch/desination point.
4)  Ride with friends back home.

Personally I think realistic full day rides with electric and gas bikes will be far more feasible with ChaDeMo.  However, you can get 100+ miles of riding with friends in a day pretty easily as long as there is a charging station at your destination and your buddies don't mind hanging out there for a bit.

Good luck!
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Brammo Empulse / Re: Rideout planning
« Last post by 00049 (AKA SopFu) on October 23, 2014, 06:33:07 PM »
My longest one day ride was 200 miles (320km). Starting with a full charge, it still took me approximately 14 hours to do the whole trip. I could have done it faster had I not had a planned stop along the way, but definitely no faster than 12 hours. That was almost all at highway speeds (65 to 70 mph, or 100 to 115 kph). I had 3 Level II (2.7kw) charging sessions of approximately 2 hours each, and maybe an hour of Level I (1.3kw).
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Brammo Empulse / Re: Rideout planning
« Last post by protomech on October 23, 2014, 06:00:56 PM »
After 100km, how many charge was left?

I was thinking about a 75km starting at full charge, then 30 minutes charging, again 75km, 90 minutes charging and again 75km. Would that be feasible?

75 km at off-highway speeds (~80 km/h) would use 5-6 kWh, so 15-18 kWh in total. The Empulse starts at 9 kWh, and two hours of charging would replenish 6 kWh, for a total of 15 kWh. It should be able to complete this trip at slower moving speeds (say 70 km/h) or with more time to charge (say another 90m total).

Our typical rideouts today are more or less according to the same schedule.

*snip*

Has anyone real life experiences with this kind of trips on an electrical motorcycle?
Most of our rideouts are about 300-500km in total.
I'm very curious to see how we could make this feasible. Especially how I could plan the charging times so I don't have to hold the gas burners which are with me.

Hi Blue Thunder,

The type of trip you're describing is IMO pretty typical, and I think electric motorcycles will see relatively slow adoption until they can handle these type of trips handily.

1. Trip to the meeting point (20km to 120km from home) on highway
45 minutes waiting for the others


On highway usage will vary from 75-100+ Wh/km depending upon speed, meaning that you will use anywhere from 1.5 kWh to 12 kWh.

To fully replenish in 45 minutes you would need 2-16 kW of charging power, depending upon the trip in question.

2. first part of 60km to 100km or 2 hrs
30 minutes stop to get a drink


With a moving average of 30-50 km/h, you're probably looking at around 80-100 Wh/km so will need to replenish 5-10 kWh. To fully replenish in 30 minutes you need 10-20 kW of charging power.

3. second part of 60km to 100km or 2 hrs
60-90 minutes lunch break


Same 5-10 kWh, but 60-90 minutes for lunch means that you can replenish at a slower rate between 3-10 kW.

4. Last part of 60km to 100km or 2 hrs

Same 5-10 kWh. Presumably the group trip is over at this point, so a longer stop to replenish would be more acceptable.

5. Ride home (up to 120km from home) on highway

At 75-100+ Wh/km, this would consume 1.5 to 12 kWh.

At the conclusion of the group ride - before heading home - this type of trip could expect to consume anywhere from 16 to 42 kWh.

You have approximately 2.5 hours blocked out for potential charging opportunities, prior to departing for the ride home.

The Empulse has about 9 kWh of energy onboard, and a 3 kW charger could supply an additional 7.5 kWh over 2.5 hours for a total of 16.5 kWh. It would barely be capable of doing the shortest of the rides you describe (20 km highway, 60 km @ lower speeds, 60km @ lower speeds, 60 km @ lower speeds = 200 km total) but would need additional time to charge for the longer rides.

Increasing the charging power to 6 kW would bring the total trip energy up to around 24 kWh, which would be capable of doing slightly longer trips (300 km at lower speeds or 200+ km with faster riding).

As onboard energy and charging power scales up further - say to 15 kWh and 15+ kW - then even the longest of the trips you describe become trivial. We have the technology to do this today, but the primary blocking factor is the limited rollout of quick charging infrastructure.

As an example: the largest 2014 Zero S bike has 12.5 kWh energy onboard, can charge in an hour with a compatible CHAdeMO charger (12+ kW). It would be able to do most of the trips you describe, supposing that CHAdeMO chargers were available at each of your charging stops.. which they probably are not.

I suspect within a couple of years you will be able to do these sort of rides on a relatively affordable electric motorcycle with a small amount of planning. The electric motorcycles that are available in production today can complete individual legs of the trip, but without more powerful third party chargers will need additional time to charge.
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Brammo Empulse / Re: Rideout planning
« Last post by kingcharles on October 23, 2014, 04:06:53 PM »
Between 0 and 20%
Depends on how enthusiastic the ride was...
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Brammo Empulse / Re: Rideout planning
« Last post by Blue Thunder on October 23, 2014, 02:16:40 PM »
After 100km, how many charge was left?

I was thinking about a 75km starting at full charge, then 30 minutes charging, again 75km, 90 minutes charging and again 75km. Would that be feasible?
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Brammo Empulse / Re: Rideout planning
« Last post by kingcharles on October 23, 2014, 01:57:02 PM »
This summer I did a number of EVening rides. We drove off after work fully charged for about 100 kilometres and finished at a place with charge posts and nice food. A two hour stop gave us time for a nice conversation and enough charge to get home again (and enough time for food :))
During the last one we had some gas bikes joining too (including our CEO!)

What I find is that I ride more often but shorter rides in stead of a few longer rides.
I also ride the long way home from work every time the weather is good. With a gas bike I did not do this often as I did not want to fuel up the bike so often. But charging at home and at the office for nearly no costs means never worry about a full tank or wasting fuel.
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Brammo Empulse / Re: Strange noise riding in the rain
« Last post by kingcharles on October 23, 2014, 01:44:41 PM »
Aha, well those panels are pretty solid on my bike. Maybe the 2014 was a bit better there?
Today no rattle, the bike was dry, no rain....
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Brammo Empulse / Rideout planning
« Last post by Blue Thunder on October 23, 2014, 07:47:00 AM »
Our typical rideouts today are more or less according to the same schedule.

1. Trip to the meeting point (20km to 120km from home) on highway
45 minutes waiting for the others
2. first part of 60km to 100km or 2 hrs
30 minutes stop to get a drink
3. second part of 60km to 100km or 2 hrs
60-90 minutes lunch break
4. Last part of 60km to 100km or 2 hrs
5. Ride home (up to 120km from home) on highway

Has anyone real life experiences with this kind of trips on an electrical motorcycle?
Most of our rideouts are about 300-500km in total.
I'm very curious to see how we could make this feasible. Especially how I could plan the charging times so I don't have to hold the gas burners which are with me.
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Welcome Forum / Re: Our Demographics
« Last post by Blue Thunder on October 23, 2014, 07:08:07 AM »
Welcome on this forum Blue Thunder. Same Blue Thunder as in MAG and Emiel I guess ?
Indeed, the world is a very small place, isn't it?
I just calculated the TCO of a Brammo empulse R over a 3 year span and hell... this bike is much cheaper than the Tuono I own now. So, plans are to buy the Brammo as soon as my depreciation rate comes at the level I better buy a new bike and that will be early 2016. Meanwhile, I hope range will get better for the 2016 models :-) so I'm not forced to buy a cheapass touring bike for my weekly rideouts and my motorcycle holidays.
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