What an electric bike really costs!

[kingcharles]

After owning an electric Vectrix VX1 for almost three years and commuting for over 33500KM I decided to make a cost overview to see whether it does not only make sense environmentally to commute on an electric bike but also financially.
The story is found here.

It was easier to do it on Tumblr than here, apologies.

[FreepZ]

That was a very nice breakdown of the true costs.

It sounds like you had some trouble with the batteries. I don't expect that you would have the same troubles with a Brammo or Zero, which would mean a significant improvement in the battery cost, and also reducing the maintenance cost as you would not have had to buy a CAN Bus cable to fix software issues.

The other big cost was the write off cost (I think that the technical term is depreciation). I don't expect the electric bikes to hold their value too well for the next few years. The improvements are happening so fast that next year's bike will be so much better than last year's bike. Perhaps the Brammo bikes will hold their value better than Zero simply because Zero brings out new versions of their bikes every year, while Brammo takes longer between versions. That means that the write off cost is still going to be pretty high.

Ideally, the "Total Cost of Ownership" for an electric bike should be lower than an ICE bike, since for many people, the limitations of an electric (range/recharge time) are significant barriers to overcome. Nevertheless, it's encouraging to see that even with the battey problems that you had with your bike, it didn't cost more to go electric, and it is certainly better for the planet when you did!

[protomech]

12 kWh/100 km seems pretty high. How fast do you typically ride?

For comparison, I'm around 13 kWh/100 miles (7.9 kWh/100 km), at the wall. I do most of my riding between 40-50 mph (65-80 km/h), with some bursts well above that.

I've seen some Leaf owners with > 20k miles on their cars, but you're the highest mileage on an elmoto I've seen to date. Real world information on battery life is very valuable to the community.

A hypothetical 70 mpg (3.4 L / 100 km) scooter filled with Euro95 at €1.7/L costs €0.06/km to operate. Neglecting trivial maintenance costs for both bikes returns a comparable €0.15/km for the Vectrix. Quite a bit more expensive, but a battery pack that does not need replacement would work better.

If the current value is €3000, would you even replace the battery pack for €4300? Or would it be easier to pull the batteries for another use (grid storage?), scrap the bike or sell it as a roller to someone wanting to build a custom elmoto?

What brand / model are the battery modules currently in use? What voltage and Ah rating was the pack originally designed for?

[protomech]

Btw - a ZF6 Zero battery would almost be a drop-in replacement for the Vectrix 30 Ah pack.

2012 Vectrix Li is 4 modules of 10 3.2V cells, 30Ah or 42Ah. Stacked in series, this gives 128V nominal, this yields nominal capacity 3.8 kWh or 5.4 kWh. Your bike is NiMH?

ZF6 is two modules of 18 3.7V 20Ah cells. Stacked in parallel, gives 66V nominal, nominal capacity 5.3 kWh.

If you reconfigured them in series, you would have 132V nominal 40 Ah. Total weight for the two modules is 37 kg - approximately a 30 kg weight savings vs the NiMH bike. Dimensions for each module are approximately 340x240x170mm.

I'll PM you the pricing that I have - don't believe it's public information, but it's competitive with the 30 Ah NiMH pricing you quote.

Edit:

Zero's powertrain site with a contact link is here:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/powertrains/

Brammo might also produce a custom pack for you. They use 10Ah cells, so you probably would need 34s3p or 34s4p corresponding to the 30Ah and 42Ah packs. Brammo's modules are 7p and 9p respectively, so unfortunately there's no easy way to reconfigure them for your use.

Either company might be interested in getting long-term test data from you .. maybe in exchange for a reduced rate on the pack.

Edit: the MCN review claims the following:

Unfortunately, we won’t have the VX-1 Li+ long enough to find out, but all EV manufacturers owe it to customers to be more definitive regarding battery life because replacement batteries are expensive. The VX-1 Li+’s currently retail for $4000.

I wonder if the Li+ battery pack is a drop-in replacement. $4000 is not a bad price at all, if accurate.

[kingcharles]

12 kWh/100 km seems pretty high. How fast do you typically ride?

I tracked the ride and the office and my average speed is 65 km/h for 30km distance. Most power goes to traffic light stop and go because the Dutch like WOT...

I've seen some Leaf owners with > 20k miles on their cars, but you're the highest mileage on an elmoto I've seen to date. Real world information on battery life is very valuable to the community.

My battery is destroyed by Vectrix firmware so any Vectrix NiMh real world battery info is not representative other than to other NiMh Vectrix owners. After loading the custom firmware I performed a capacity test and this showed that my battery is at 80% capacity. On VisForVoltage there is one Vectrix owner who has reached 80.000 kilometers already! But he needed 3 or 4 battery packs to get there...

If the current value is €3000, would you even replace the battery pack for €4300? Or would it be easier to pull the batteries for another use (grid storage?), scrap the bike or sell it as a roller to someone wanting to build a custom elmoto?

The NiMh have high self discharge so grid storage would not be ideal.
While replacing the pack would be a straightforward job, mostly because of the great work by other VisForVoltage Vectrix owners, my first choice would be parting it out or even better trading it in for a Brammo or Zero. Although the Vectrix is a great piece of engineering and I love riding it, it lacks top speed, accelleration and it's a scooter where I really want a motorbike. When I bought the Vectrix there were no two wheel EV highway capable alternatives but now there are I hope that my Vectrix will last long enough for the Empulse to arrive here in The Netherlands, if not I will go for the 2013 Zero.

What brand / model are the battery modules currently in use? What voltage and Ah rating was the pack originally designed for?

102x GP NiMh cells for 144V right after a charge and 120V low voltage and 3.7KWh 30Ah
The exact model I need to look up somewhere...

[kingcharles]

Btw - a ZF6 Zero battery would almost be a drop-in replacement for the Vectrix 30 Ah pack.

As mentioned on VisForVoltage some great Li kits to replace NiMh have been developed which I could buy and get community support on. Using Zero part would cause issues with the dashboard etc.

Either company might be interested in getting long-term test data from you .. maybe in exchange for a reduced rate on the pack.

Even better was for them to give me a complete bike!!!
I ride all year and it rains A LOT here so would be great waterproofing test (I helped with wet weather improvement on the Vectrix...)

I wonder if the Li+ battery pack is a drop-in replacement. $4000 is not a bad price at all, if accurate.

Price for a factory replacement Li+ pack would cost me 5075 Euro. This is also what I used in my calculations. Using a custom kit would be cheaper and give 8,5 KWh!

[protomech]

12 kWh/100 km seems pretty high. How fast do you typically ride?

I tracked the ride and the office and my average speed is 65 km/h for 30km distance. Most power goes to traffic light stop and go because the Dutch like WOT...

Significant freeway riding would do it. Perhaps the Vectrix charger is rather inefficient as well, MCN reported 7.85 kWh total consumption to charge and balance the 2012 Li+ 5.4 kWh pack (69% total efficiency).

The NiMh have high self discharge so grid storage would not be ideal.

It would be fine probably for power shifting between night/day and for offgrid night storage applications. But yeah, not for long term storage. My Honda Insight uses NiMH cells and it doesn't like to sit for more than a week.

Although the Vectrix is a great piece of engineering and I love riding it, it lacks top speed, accelleration and it's a scooter where I really want a motorbike. When I bought the Vectrix there were no two wheel EV highway capable alternatives but now there are

Very true. In just three years Zero and Brammo have gone from bikes that couldn't hit 70 mph and would only return 15-20 miles at maximum speed to bikes that can reach 90+ mph and cruise for 50-70 miles at freeway speeds.

Prices have gone up, but the capabilities are well beyond their starting points.

[Vibetrippin]

Waterproofing test! That's how I need to sell myself to Brammo! I work on the North Shore in Vancouver BC. There are only a few places in the world where it rains more than here!