zero motorcycles 2013 website update

[oml]

So, just a month to late, the site of zeromc has been updated to the new bikes. Horray!
featuring some videos, prices etc.

for your convenience: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

The pricing still pisses me of. 1800 USD for the chademo upgrade, but 1900 EUR in germany? wtf?
Thats worth 2550$ currently. After converting 1700 USD to EUR and adding 20% sales tax (1550 EUR) there is still a difference about 350 EUR there to explain.

I'll write them and have them them answer that question *stomps off*


edit: fixing numbers.

[protomech]

Zero prices the bikes at $1 USD = €1. Accessories seem to be priced about 5-10% higher even.

Brammo's pricing looks a little better - $17k Empulse is priced at €15k. At least that was the word back in October.

Zero also posted a number of excellent customer videos talking about the 2012 and earlier bikes.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/customers/

[oml]

Yep, and I dont see a clear reason why. I've written them now, not missing the fact that thus the Empulse is cheaper by a whole 1000 EUR than the Zero S 11.5 here while imho being superior in suspension, design and build quality so that not one will buy the Zero S while aware of the competition.

I'll let you hear the answer.

[flar]

The Zero 11.5 will still have longer range and lower maintenance for those who don't care or notice the handling differences.  A lot of riders are praising the new S on its handling.  Though much of that is in comparison to the 2012 models, they don't really feel that anything is wrong with the way the bike handles so they are likely to only see the longer range and lower maintenance.  That would make it worth a higher price to some.

[kingcharles]

But Zero forgets that the biggest part of Europe is more interested in style than practicality. Just look at the Saietta!!!
Zero is far far overpriced in Europe at this conversion rate.
I just hope Brammo keeps honest with their converion rates. I think they will steal the whole market when they do.

[oml]

The Zero 11.5 will still have longer range and lower maintenance for those who don't care or notice the handling differences.  A lot of riders are praising the new S on its handling.  Though much of that is in comparison to the 2012 models, they don't really feel that anything is wrong with the way the bike handles so they are likely to only see the longer range and lower maintenance.  That would make it worth a higher price to some.

Im pretty sure there is a reason why Zero is priced juuuust below the Empulse in the US. They loose this "coincidence" in Europe, where its just the other way round.
Also, they are still quite fugly compared to the competition

[protomech]

I don't think Zero will sell many bikes in Europe if there's a Brammo dealer next door offering the Empulse for €1k less. I'm not sure Zero is a standout when comparing $ to € pricing, though.

Edit: the below are comparing units directly, not doing currency conversions.

Apple's products are typically priced 5% higher in euros vs USD.
Ex: 15" Retina Macbook Pro $1799 USD vs €1879

Honda's bikes are typically priced 5-10% higher in euros than USD.
Ex: 2013 CBR1000RR $13810 USD (+ tax, shipping) vs €15090 (+ shipping I think, Überführung?)

BMW's bikes are more mixed, priced anywhere from 10% lower (R1200R) to 10% higher (K1300S, S1000RR).

I'd love to see Brammo sell the Empulse at €15k in Europe and make a profit .. compared to other gas bikes, that would put it over $3000 cheaper than in the US (not counting the federal credit). For that matter, I'd love to see the Saietta reach market .. it has some kick-ass specs, and I think it would be a more interesting comparison target for the Empulse than the Zero bikes.

However, let me throw this out there too: about a year ago I started making a fuss about the Empulse pricing being unrealistic. I guessed $16995 for the 9.3 kWh model back in March before final specs were known (though I was dead wrong about the cell configuration and the lower-tier model) .. and then $17k in April (again, wrong about the lower-tier model) and $17550 in May after specs were known but before the price had been adjusted from the old Empulse 10.0 $13995 price.

I say this to lend a little weight when I say that the Empulse european pricing feels very optimistic. Brammo would need to significantly streamline assembly, manufacture the bike at Flextronics in Europe, and obtain higher volume discounts on parts in order to hit the sub-€15k price point. I'm not saying it's not possible, but if Brammo sells the Empulse in Europe in 2013 then I would not place bets on them meeting that price point.

[Richard230]

Then there is the type of vehicle marketing where you price the vehicle high when it is brand new, get what sales you can at a high profit margin, then when sales slack off, put the vehicle on sale at a discounted price and go for more sales at a lower profit - shortly before bring out next year's model.

Don't forget, the Enertia was originally going to cost $12,000 (as I recall), which didn't generate much sales enthusiasm, but just before it hit the market, the price dropped to $8,000 and that made a huge difference to its potential customers.  A few months before, I had bought my second GPR-S for $9,300, as I figured it was a better deal than the similar performing (per the EMS claims, which turned out to be not quite true) Enertia at its original price.  But if I had known that the price was going to be only $8K, I would have grabbed the first one available - even if I had to buy it at a Best Buy. The Empulse is a much superior motorcycle than my GPR-S was.

[oml]

Apple's products are typically priced 5% higher in euros vs USD.
Ex: 15" Retina Macbook Pro $1799 USD vs €1879

Honda's bikes are typically priced 5-10% higher in euros than USD.
Ex: 2013 CBR1000RR $13810 USD (+ tax, shipping) vs €15090 (+ shipping I think, Überführung?)

Apple pricing is right out of some sick minds. I've heard they cost twice as much in Columbia(edit: or was it Brasilia?)  than in the US? Its just a 'lets take what we get' - mentality.
About Honda ... I dont know, may be additional fees, or custom. Or vehicles have to be much cheaper in the US as an axiom
Friends of mine bought every car the've owned used in the US, then shipped it to Europe and claimed replicable that they saved tons of money every time even after transport fees (sometimes more than 3k for heavy trucks), customs etc etc.

I'd love to see Brammo sell the Empulse at €15k in Europe and make a profit .. compared to other gas bikes, that would put it over $3000 cheaper than in the US (not counting the federal credit). For that matter, I'd love to see the Saietta reach market .. it has some kick-ass specs, and I think it would be a more interesting comparison target for the Empulse than the Zero bikes.
[...]
I say this to lend a little weight when I say that the Empulse european pricing feels very optimistic. Brammo would need to significantly streamline assembly, manufacture the bike at Flextronics in Europe, and obtain higher volume discounts on parts in order to hit the sub-€15k price point. I'm not saying it's not possible, but if Brammo sells the Empulse in Europe in 2013 then I would not place bets on them meeting that price point.

1. Hans Eder told me that the European version would be a bit different, but I dont know details. Cant imagine they will sell us crap though.
2. The European Empulse will be manufactured by Flextronics afaik, anything else would be plain stupid, eg they would need to pay quite a bit of customs to import US-build Empulses to Europe. Also the "assembled in the USA" isnt worth here as much as in the US (surprise!), and if it could be replaced by "assembled in the EU" some would be a bit more happy (personally, I dont care.).
I also think that Flextronics will build the bikes cheaper than Brammo herself (or itself? himself? dont know.). Hungary is a rather low-wage country, and the facilites are there and optimised for such stuff and and and.

I would bet at sub 15.5k with shipping and tax, currently its 15150.

[Richard230]

When I was stationed in Panama during the mid-1960's, all motorcycles, which were imported of course, were subject to a 100% customs tax.  However, when I bought my Suzuki B100P at the Panamanian Suzuki dealer, I had the tax refunded, after a lot of paperwork, once I registered it in the Canal Zone - which was U.S. territory at the time.  The local citizens really got shafted when they bought a new motorcycle, but they must have figured out a way around it as motorcycles were relatively popular in the country. If you knew the right people and greased the right palms, just about anything could be done at the time.   

[kingcharles]

Just to add to the EU story, each EU country has its own tax laws regarding vehicles which creates quite some differences in prices between all the countries. The Netherlands for example has an extra tax on top of the VAT called BPM which makes us one of the most expensive countries to buy a car or bike.
For electric vehicles the BPM is 0% (normally 19,4% for bikes!) so only the VAT (21%) applies.

[FreepZ]

I have to say that the new Zero website looks very nice.

Take a look at this neat chart that explains the factors that affect range:


From this webpage: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/

Funny how in the Rider section, they list "Reduced Cargo" and "Heavier" as factors, rather than simply saying "Skinny Rider" and "Fat Rider"! 

The Customer Video section is pretty neat. Some nicely produced video, and some sincere but obviously amateur efforts that paints a picture of people who are really enjoying their bikes. Heck, those Zero X dirt bikes look like a lot of fun.