Author Topic: KTM giving up on electric motorcycles for now  (Read 820 times)

Richard230

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KTM giving up on electric motorcycles for now
« on: March 23, 2013, 08:04:20 PM »
Oddly, after just announcing their new electric scooter concept, KTM's CEO is now saying that electric motorcycles are not ready for prime-time.  He is worried about fires and explosions and battery cost.  It sounds like he has been reading newspaper reports about Boeing's Dreamliner's problems - instead of checking up on Brammo and Zero to see if they are having any similar issues - which I am pretty sure they are not.   :(

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/ktm-ceo-stefan-pierer-electrics-too-soon/
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

00049 (AKA SopFu)

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Re: KTM giving up on electric motorcycles for now
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 09:01:34 PM »
To be fair, his comment was that they could explode in the event of an accident. I don't think any Brammo has been in a catastrophic accident yet. I know I wouldn't want to be near the bike when a cell shorts out for whatever reason, especially if it's on a fresh charge!
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protomech

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Re: KTM giving up on electric motorcycles for now
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 11:13:37 PM »
The interview was a couple of weeks ago, so before the e-scooter at the Tokyo bike show.

Reposting my most recent reply.

***

I’m not convinced KTM is so negative about EV bikes. The Google Translated version of the interview does match the quote posted in the story, but it’s possible that Pierer meant that he does not think the initial market will be huge, rather than that KTM is pulling out.

Consider the following:
* 2013-03-22, KTM shows an e-scooter based on the same Freeride E architecture at the Tokyo Auto Show
Pierer: “We at KTM are completely convinced of electric mobility as a perfect complement to conventional powertrains. In the long term, the electric drive will come out on top for short distances – particularly in areas which are highly sensitive from an environmental perspective, like open nature and densely populated metropolitan areas! Vehicles like the ‘E-SPEED’ and FREERIDE E can help powered two-wheelers win back more acceptance in society.”
http://blog.ktm.com/uncategorized/kutti-blog-from-tokyo-e-speed-breaks-ground/
* 2012-11-30, guest blogger on KTM’s site posts this blurb:
“Some people in the forums, however, doubt how serious this project is for KTM and whether the E will ever be available from dealers. This can be easily clarified: For KTM CEO Stefan Pierer the project has personal interest and he is not someone who reconsiders things purely because they prove more difficult to implement than initially thought. The E is coming.”
” … you had the opportunity to register here in the KTM blog for a test ride on the E in 2012 and be a volunteer beta-tester. The intention is to repeat this offer in 2013. So we will let you know here in good time how your opinion as riders can help in making the Freeride E available from dealers in a form as good as it can possibly be.”
http://blog.ktm.com/bikes/guest-column-what-is-the-freeride-e-really-like/
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kingcharles

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Re: KTM giving up on electric motorcycles for now
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 06:27:29 AM »
On the topic of fire and accidents the Vectrix has some 6 years of expirience. On the most active Vectrix forum (visforvoltage) at least one fire has been reported (post riding) and several big crashes, none of which resulted in a fire.

The Vectrix charge software is most likely to blaim for the fire. Vectrix in their aim to get the fastest possible recharge times pushes too much current into the batteries causing them to overheat. To solve the heating they installed big impellers for forced air cooling. In warmer climates this causes big issues. This is only applicable to the Vectrix with NiMH batteries. No overheated Li batteries reported.
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protomech

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Re: KTM giving up on electric motorcycles for now
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 12:47:25 PM »
In the US, we see around 3 trillion vehicles miles per year (effectively 100% ICE) and around 290k vehicle-initiated fires (Source, PDF). So ICE has around 11M miles per vehicle fire. Worth noting that most of these fires probably occur in older vehicles.

Zero probably has around 6 million vehicles miles across all their bikes sold since 2009 (guessing ~1500 sold, 4k miles average). I haven't heard of a single Zero-related fire, though obviously that doesn't mean there are zero Zero-related fires.

Nissan has sold around 50k Nissan Leafs worldwide. Assuming 10k miles on average, then somewhere in the ballpark of 500M vehicle miles.

After searching the net I can only find two fires related to a Nissan Leaf.

Fire 1 was in Hawaii: forum link, news article. No real information other than the fire started in the garage.

Fire 2 is a burned salvage Nissan Leaf. InsideEVs claims this is related to a fire (forest fire?) in Colorado but provides no details, claims the battery survived intact. Discussion on GM-Volt forum questions the forest fire explanation, noting damage to the rear bumper and tire sidewall separation (perhaps driven on damaged/flat tires).

Obviously not all Nissan Leaf vehicle fires will be major news stories, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was a healthy interest in emphasizing these reports.

Other interesting notes:

* Nissan says about two dozen Leafs were destroyed in the 2011 tsunami. None caught fire, all battery packs remained intact. Link
* Camry plows into Chevy Volt. Camry catches fire. Volt is 100% demolished, no fire. Link.

We should expect to see more EV fires as the vehicles age and as more are sold, of course.. will just be interesting to see if a pure battery EV is more or less likely to catch fire than a gas vehicle. Both have low voltage electrical systems (which seem to be the source of the majority of the Fiskar fires), so compare high voltage battery pack vs a tank of combustible fluids..
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