NEW Zero XU for 2 thousand OFF MSRP

[EmpulseRider]

Just swung by Grand Prix Motorsports this morning because I happened to be in the area. Didnt see the new Zeros BUT I saw some price tags on a few 2011 Zero XUs. 5999! Not too bad, especially after the colorado where it would be *1923.00!? Now I know from experience that these rebate numbers are set, in other words they dont take into account the actual price that you pay. I am tempted to buy one, ride it until I get an Empulse, then sell it. I actually kinda feel guilty about it. Would this make me a bad person? How would the tax man feel about me using this on not 1 but 2 motorcycles in one year? Would I run a greater chance of an audit? Any input would be appreciated.

* http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1251713597816&ssbinary=true

[Brammofan]

I don't think there is any limitation on the number of vehicles per year.  I saw in that FYI one reference to "each vehicle" that gets converted, so it certainly contemplates the possibility that someone may buy (or convert) more than one per year.  Will you get audited? I don't know.  Note that the XU model does not appear on the list of eligible models on that FYI... doesn't mean that you can't give it a shot, but you may have to go through some major rigamarole trying to prove it's eligible.  Oh, yes it does... sorry (insert tax attorney disclaimer here, i.e., I'm not your lawyer, not giving tax advice, consult a professional, anything you say may be used against you.... etc.)

Does it make you a bad person? No, your history of dwarf-tossing took care of that years ago.

But John and I will definitely ban you from the forum. (we keed, we keed)

[EmpulseRider]

Does it make you a bad person? No, your history of dwarf-tossing took care of that years ago.

"In soviet russia, dwarfs toss you!"

[EmpulseRider]

Just remembered... the tax credit is now 75% not 85% of the difference. The document in the link says the difference is 4796 (* .75 = 3597). So $5999 - $3597 = $2402. Still a killer deal.

[protomech]

Keep in mind the following things:

1. The federal 2 wheeled EV 10% subsidy is history, I think. Expired 12/30/2011.
2. It appears looking at that document that the 85% cost delta CO subsidy is also history. The $4076 rebate is for tax years 2010-2011; if there is a way to (legally!) purchase the bike so that it falls in the 2011 tax year, then you should be good. Purchases made in the 2012 tax year appear to use an actual-cost-based delta.

The amount of the credit allowed shall be an amount equal to the percentage as set forth in the following:
a) The difference between the actual cost incurred by such person during the tax year in purchasing a motor vehicle that uses an alternative fuel and the cost of the same motor vehicle that uses a traditional fuel or, if the same vehicle is not available, then the cost of the most similar vehicle, taking into account the model, make, engine size, and options, that uses a traditional fuel;

"Actual cost incurred" means the actual cost paid by the purchaser for the vehicle, conversion, or idling reduction technologies. The actual cost paid shall be calculated as the net of any credits, grants, or rebates, including federal credits, grants, or rebates for which the purchaser is eligible, but excluding the credit specified in this section.

For the purposes of this credit, for tax years commencing on January 1, 2012, but prior to January 1, 2016 the percentage of the difference in actual cost incurred or the percentage of the actual cost incurred that may be claimed as a credit shall be as follows: ...... [75% for a Cat 1 vehicle purchased in 2012]

[EmpulseRider]

Yes the federal rebate is gone. But the Colorado one will be around until 1/1/2016. I did not figure federal rebate into my numbers.

[protomech]

Depends on what bike is closest to a Zero XU.

Yamaha makes a 125cc scooter, Zuma 125, not sure if a scooter is applicable. MSRP $3350, rebate $1988.
Aprilia makes a 125cc sportsbike, RS125, but the MSRP is quite high and the ergonomics are not the same as the Zero. MSRP $5499, rebate $375.
Most of the japanese manufacturers make 250cc bikes available at about $4000-4200. Rebate would be $1350-1500.

[EmpulseRider]

OK, I see what you are saying now... this document needs to be updated. It does say that for the XU the incremental difference of the 2011 XU is 4796 though (near the bottom) so then why wouldn't this number carry over? Actual cost was not taken into account with my Ford Fusion Hybrid (we paid 3k less than MSRP) but if that indeed has changed from 2011 to 2012 then this isnt that great of a deal. Guess I will just have to run on petrol until my Empulse finally arrives

[protomech]

Prior to 1/1/2012 the CO rebate appears to be based upon MSRP of the vehicle purchased, not actual purchase price. The Innovative Motor Vehicle Credit (which kicked in this year) uses actual cost.

The comparable vehicle used for the Zero XU appears to be a $3199 MSRP motorcycle ($7995 - $4796 differential cost). So the "actual cost" delta is $2800, and your rebate would be $2100 (making your final cost before taxes $3899).

Still not bad, but you could get a 2012 XU for $3199 * 0.75 + $7995 * 0.25 = $4398 .. the improvements from 2011 to 2012 are definitely worth the extra $500.

Edit: CO uses a $4244 comparable bike for the 2011 S. If the 2012 S is comparable, then the ZF6 is $6057 and the ZF9 is $6682. Empulse may be a bit higher because it may use a more expensive comparison target. Still, those are amazing prices.

[860]

I did the math, and mine matches protomech, with one huge unknown when calculating the 2012 savings.  There are no 2012 model year numbers in the FYI yet. 

If you look at the "incremental price difference" for the cars in the FYI, for most cars this price changes every year.  The IPD for the 2012 can change, so exact math can't be done until those numbers are put in the FYI.  But that brings up a huge question.  Since the credit is no longer based upon MSRP, but on price paid, will they even put IPD's in the document anymore?  The IPD's aren't even relevant now in 2012, because the actual price paid is what matters.

That of course opens up a whole bunch of new questions.  Like, if you pay over MSRP, but get a free helmet, a free set of leathers, and a free extended warranty, etc in the deal, what price do you use to calculate the tax credit?  It would seem by this FYI that your rebate would be based off of whatever number is on the receipt. 

[Phantom]

..what price do you use to calculate the tax credit?  It would seem by this FYI that your rebate would be based off of whatever number is on the receipt. 

Yes, it would be the price that you paid that you can support with a receipt. This is the best backup to have for the IRS, in my opinion. In my case with my Enertia purchase, I used the price paid to Best Buy which included the freight to ship it across the country. So, as a result, my cost basis was above the list price for the Enertia.

[EmpulseRider]

..what price do you use to calculate the tax credit?  It would seem by this FYI that your rebate would be based off of whatever number is on the receipt. 

Yes, it would be the price that you paid that you can support with a receipt. This is the best backup to have for the IRS, in my opinion. In my case with my Enertia purchase, I used the price paid to Best Buy which included the freight to ship it across the country. So, as a result, my cost basis was above the list price for the Enertia.

Wow, that is very good to know. In the case of a 14k Empulse it would be likely we will be hitting the 6k cap anyway, depending on what would be considered comparable and the resulting IPD.

[860]

Yea, this would probably be a buying strategy for an Enertia Plus buyer, or an Empluse 6.0 or 8.0 buyer (if these are ever built).

I still think Brammo will need two different Empluses in order to compete head to head against Zero.  Unless they somehow manage to drop the price of the 10.0 to somewhere in the middle between the Zero S ZF6 and ZF9 and knock them both out with one punch.