Empulse Purchase

[LGHTCYCL]

Hello everyone,

I've been reading some of the posts about the cost of the production Empulse and have these thoughts:

I'm am a member of Plug in America. After reading the concerns on price I decided to compare the costs of current design electric bikes and found some interesting things:

the Mission Motors Mission One high performance bike sells for $68995 has level 2 charging and a reported 150 mi range. Assuming that the tests for mileage is the same a $17K-19K Brammo Empulse that has level 2 charging and a 127 mi range is quite a bargain. This is definitely the best deal out there currently for high performance electric bikes.

I got on PluginAmericas website: pluginamerica.org to find out about the other bikes out there. I remember reading about Brammos methodology that they took from the computer industry: as soon as technology is available take advantage of it. It does work in the computer industry. I also read about about improvement availability and making upgrades available. If the current range of the bike isn't a problem for me. I'll just have Brammo swap them out for new ones when the old ones can't be used. I imagine improved battery packs will be available in a couple of years.

[860]

My point was just what Flar said here:

You can be frustrated and angry over the hype they were peddling, but that's a different story.  That leads to questions of why the old prices and specs were still on the web site up til a couple of weeks before the final unveiling.

As I said, I don't have any problems with Brammo producing an awesome electric bike that is way beyond what I can pay. I love the design (although I would still prefer a leaner one and ad clip-ons) and the specs. Just like a love the design and specs for Lito's Sora. My problem is just with their communication department. It's not the first time (or the second or third) they fail to communicate. And that's it. The bike is awesome and I know it will sell enough. But just like with Sora or Mission, I can't buy it. No need to tell me I could and hold that expectation for 2 years. As soon as they realized they were going for the high-end consumers, they should have said so. I could have used the money for something else. No "mean-spirited" anything. Now, moving on...

I know you want to move on, but I just wanted to comment that I agree that setting the high-end expectation would have been a good idea. 

I think if they would have just removed the 6.0 and 8.0 from their website last summer when they officially made the decision to drop them (along with the 10K and 12K prices), that would have gone a long way towards setting expectations.  I actually 100% understand why they kept everything else under wraps until the final release.  But pulling the 6.0 and 8.0 from the site back when they confirmed they were never going to happen should have been a no-brainer.

[Jay-Fazed]

So i figured i would give me two cents on this. I too have waited some time for this and was a little shocked at the price, BUT I'm pretty sure Ill go through with buying the Empulse only after I know what CO is offering. I really don't like the idea of paying too much for something but I can see where the profits on the Empulse aren't going to make Brammo rich over night. I want them to succeed, I want an American vehicle start-up company to make it.  OK no more rant. If the incentive CO offers is good i might buy an R but ill probably just wait and buy the Base model. Can anyone confirm that the standard 120V connector ( level 1) comes with the purchase? I don't need any fancy charger at home. I feel bad sometimes that I drive a LR4 but man its soo nice. So i figured I should help out and do my part and buy an electric. If that Model X Tesla has works out for them maybe Ill switch over. I need the cargo space...I have a Great Dane That I take with me everywhere  One thing for sure is that IF/WHEN i get an Empulse I will be doing lots of reviews and post on here.

[Brammofan]

Can anyone confirm that the standard 120V connector ( level 1) comes with the purchase?

According to the spec page on the Brammo site:

110V AC to J1772 Level 1 Adapter included

[EmpulseRider]

So i figured i would give me two cents on this. I too have waited some time for this and was a little shocked at the price, BUT I'm pretty sure Ill go through with buying the Empulse only after I know what CO is offering. I really don't like the idea of paying too much for something but I can see where the profits on the Empulse aren't going to make Brammo rich over night. I want them to succeed, I want an American vehicle start-up company to make it.  OK no more rant. If the incentive CO offers is good i might buy an R but ill probably just wait and buy the Base model. Can anyone confirm that the standard 120V connector ( level 1) comes with the purchase? I don't need any fancy charger at home. I feel bad sometimes that I drive a LR4 but man its soo nice. So i figured I should help out and do my part and buy an electric. If that Model X Tesla has works out for them maybe Ill switch over. I need the cargo space...I have a Great Dane That I take with me everywhere  One thing for sure is that IF/WHEN i get an Empulse I will be doing lots of reviews and post on here.

The Empulse is bound to qualify for the maximum tax credit, just like the Zero ZF9. Dont take my word for it but I would count on getting the full $6k rebate, which knocks the price down to $11k-$13k, BUT you are still going to pay sales tax and license fees on the full price. I am curious to see how much insurance is going to be... was $23/month for full coverage on my 07 Gixxer 750

[Jay-Fazed]

Where i live in the Springs ill end up paying roughly 18k and some change with the sales tax, and after the credit ill pay about 13k for the bike before putting plates on it. Still not bad. I plan on paying cash for it anyway. 13k for a bike is reasonable considering that's about the price your going to pay for any 600cc sport bike ( aka if it has an R or RR in the title).

[kingcharles]

What is most frustrating for the European enthusiast is that most likely we must consider ourselves lucky if there will be a 1 for 1 conversion to Euro's. Add the fact that rebates are almost non existent (in the netherlands at least) and it gets really hard to justify the money.
Well the bright side is that I probably wont have to consider buying one for at least another year as it is unlikely that it will hit the EU streets here before mid 2013. Gives me more time to save some money.
With that price tag I am no longer willing to buy it from the brochure. I really must convince myself by riding it to ensure it's worth the cash.

[Richard230]

Perhaps Brammo will move production of the Empulse to their factory in Europe once sales pick up a bit and the North American market has taken its share. That should drop the price in Europe by cutting shipping and importing costs and resolving the constantly-changing dollar/Euro exchange rate.  I can't think of any reason why the Empulse can't be built both in Oregon and in Europe. After all, most of the bulky chassis parts appear to be sourced from Italy, shipped to and imported into the U.S., trucked across the country to Oregon and shipped back out to dealers. It would seem to be more efficient to just keep them on the other side of the Pond and build bikes there.

[Car Loss]

Perhaps Brammo will move production of the Empulse to their factory in Europe once sales pick up a bit and the North American market has taken its share. That should drop the price in Europe by cutting shipping and importing costs and resolving the constantly-changing dollar/Euro exchange rate.  I can't think of any reason why the Empulse can't be built both in Oregon and in Europe. After all, most of the bulky chassis parts appear to be sourced from Italy, shipped to and imported into the U.S., trucked across the country to Oregon and shipped back out to dealers. It would seem to be more efficient to just keep them on the other side of the Pond and build bikes there.

Um... no.  These ain't legos; this ain't even a restaurant. 

The closest analogy would be the fighter-jet business.  A production line only breaks even after a minimum run, at a minimum rate.  Stretching production into out-years, saves some money in the short term but costs money overall.  Actually picking up a production setup and trying to replicate it elsewhere (even across town) is a nightmare.  Splitting production is a joke.

Nothing personal, Richard, but it ain't gonna happen.

[protomech]

If Brammo expects to grow to the point of 60k bikes/year then they'd better get out of the fighter jet business as fast as they possibly can.

[Car Loss]

Empulse 9.3 kWh price drop to $15k, Empulse 7.2 kWH priced at $13k.

and add:

Empulse 7.2 single speed automatic at 11,995. a bit slower off the line, top speed of 90-95 mph vs over 100.

Heck yeah.  100mph/100 mi while donut-capable is one thing.  But, given the chance to top out at "only" 90 with no wheelies, while still easily within my riding ranges and buying exactly NO gas?  I'd shell out $11,995 for that in a second.

Of course, this makes me the opposite of 1416.  Who will win??? ;-)

[Car Loss]

If Brammo expects to grow to the point of 60k bikes/year then they'd better get out of the fighter jet business as fast as they possibly can.

And you do that by trafficking in volume.  And you do THAT by getting the price down somehow, or possibly by identifying some "killer app" where you manage to beat existing (ICE) offerings in that specific case.  The march of technology will do the former (slowly, unfortunately), while Polaris will (hopefully) help with the latter.  Too bad 6.0 and 8.0 variants didn't make sense electrically or logistically or whatever, because that's one common way to up your volume, as Brammo (and I) had originally planned.

But you're right, the business needs to bust out of Aston Martin territory pronto, into Ferrari-ville, and onward to the BMW district as soon as possible.  BMW cars, that is, as their moto production setup is still a bit fighter-like.