The Middle Ground

[Mithion]

I have been a fan of Brammo since the beginning and will continue to stand by them. I discovered this emerging company doing a simple Google search for "Electric Motorcycle" and discovered the Enertia and fell in love.

I have been waiting patiently over the past few years, debating buying another Sportster and waiting to see how much the electric technology improved, which it has significantly over the past few years. I was very psyched when the Entertia Plus came out and was almost ready to make my decision when the talk of the I.E.T heated up. Now I was willing to wait longer to see what would emerge in the electric motorcycle world. The Zero bikes started showing up and it was a simple choice for me, I personally think they are very ugly motorcycles and absolutely love the Enertia.

My personal riding situation is about a 20 min ride to work that's on all highway where most of the cars are going 70 and up so that left the Enertia Plus out, not for range but for highway speed. I looked to the Empulse, not really my favorite style wise, being a Harley guy, it looks to sport bike-ish for my tastes where the Enertia is simply in a class of its own with a bit of supermoto thrown in.

Now the real Empulse is out and I am left with nothing. Even if I had 17-20K for a bike I would never spend that much on one.

So we have the commuter bike in the Enertia/Enertia Plus on one end and then all the way on the other end of the spectrum we have the Empulse/Empulse R as the sport bike.

Will there be a middle ground bike? Something inbetween the Enertia and Empulse, perhaps a commuter that can handle real highway or a bike that's not quite a sport bike but can still be used in a sport like manner?

I would love to see an Enertia Prime or Enertia R, give the Plus a transmission while still maintaining that beautiful design as much as possible and Brammo I am yours forever!!!

What benefit would the I.E.T give the Plus?

Sorry for the rant, won't happen again :0)

[cogito]

It was my understanding that both off-the-line and top-speed of the enertia was limited by software in order to maximize range. In fact, two days after my test drive of the enertia (classic) I got a call from a brammo engineer to say they had increased the low end acceleration via a software update. It had certainly been slow off the line.

If your commute is only 25 miles or so, the larger capacity batteries on the enertia plus would have no trouble getting you there even at the decreased efficiency of highway speed. All that’s necessary would be a software upgrade by brammo or hack by a third party. While they’re at it there’s no reason why regen breaking couldn’t be added for safety as well as range extension. I haven’t been following closely, has the enertia plus added regen yet?

The gearbox in the empulse may be a gimmick or a work-around to not overheat the motor, but we know the tesla roadster had a top speed of 125 mph as well as 0-60 in under 4 seconds. An electric drive train does not require a transmission.

but I may be wrong.

[Brammofan]

The gearbox in the empulse may be a gimmick or a work-around to not overheat the motor, but we know the tesla roadster had a top speed of 125 mph as well as 0-60 in under 4 seconds. An electric drive train does not require a transmission.

but I may be wrong.

Man, oh man, if we have to discuss the gearbox for the 20th time, we can, but perhaps you might want to use the search function on this forum to find those many many posts.  

[Mithion]

I know there is benefits, it is def not a gimmick. My question is this- if you added the I.E.T to the Plus and did nothing else besides the obvious things that would come with adding it, what would it change?

[EmpulseRider]

I would say the middle ground between the Plus and the Empulse would be the Engage. I believe a dyno test from SMRE (the IET engineers) showed it was capable of 100mph too... at least on a dyno. Price is currently $10,555 or €9.055 including VAT.

[Brammofan]

My question is this- if you added the I.E.T to the Plus and did nothing else besides the obvious things that would come with adding it, what would it change?

It would be quicker off the line, would probably run cooler at sustained high speeds, and would have a similar feel to a bike with gears.

[protomech]

I know there is benefits, it is def not a gimmick. My question is this- if you added the I.E.T to the Plus and did nothing else besides the obvious things that would come with adding it, what would it change?

A little while ago I did a plot of power vs speed for an IET Enertia vs a stock Enertia Classic..
http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=806.msg5099#msg5099

In that plot the stock Enertia is geared like the IET bike in 4th gear. So you could start the IET bike in 4th gear and get similar performance to the stock Enertia. Below 30 mph the IET bike made 30-50% more power, above 50 mph the bike is able to hold peak power as long as the motor does not overheat.

Summary list of changes:
* acceleration would go up if you row through the gears .. maybe 8-9s 0-60 instead of 12-13s.
* weight would go up by 20-30 lbs
* top speed would increase to 70-75 mph, drag-limited
* range at low speeds likely would go down by 5% .. range at 50+ mph might be the same, might be 5% better
* cost would go up by maybe $1000
* complexity and maintenance of the bike would go up

[Mithion]

I wonder how much the addition of the I.E.T would change the overall look of the Enertia. I absolutely love the simplicity of the bike, the body almost looks like two spider legs in the way it is angled around the battery(s). I think Brammo would do a very good job of not effecting the overall look of the Enertia if they ever did integrate the I.E.T into it, they did an awesome job putting it in the Empulse so we have that as an example of their industrial design and engineering skills.

[860]

Man, oh man, if we have to discuss the gearbox for the 20th time, we can, but perhaps you might want to use the search function on this forum to find those many many posts.  

With (hopefully) more new folks getting into the Empulse, there might have to be something like a pinned thread at the top of the Empulse section dedicated to the IET?

[Vibetrippin]

The Middle Ground. Sounds like a good name for a pub.

I'm still waiting for someone to build a solid electric cruiser that costs less than $40G.

I wonder if Brammo is going to think about selling their powertrain and batteries? Now the machinist in me wants to take the Empulse Drive Sytem and cram it into a Fatboy frame...

[Mithion]

As the technology moves forward so will Brammo, the already gave of an example by holding back the Empulse for a long time to integrate the I.E.T into it which seems to have been a very good thing. I see them continuing to move the Enertia forward with improvements and new technologies, we can't forget that they also have the Engage and Encite to do things with.