eCRP Energica

[FreepZ]

eCRP unveiled their Energica prototype bike yesterday.



Available: 2014
Price: €18,000
Motor: Permanent magnet AC, snychronous machine, oil cooled
Peak power: 100 kW
Torque: 160 Nm (0-6000 rpm)
Battery: 11.7 kWh
Top speed: 220 km/h
Range: 150 km @ 80 km/h (not clear if that is "peak" or "fixed" speed)
Features:
- Selectable throttle maps
- Tubular trelesed frame
- Marzocchi Forks / (sounded like "Zed eb sarks") Rear Shock
- Brembo Brakes
- LED lights
- There will be kits to customize the bike

More information on their website:
http://www.ecrp.eu/en

[protomech]

Probably fixed. 80 km/h is 50 mph, the Zero uses around 100-110 Wh/mile at that speed.

11.7 kWh / 94 miles = 125 Wh/mile .. seems high, esp for a faired bike. Possibly the 11.7 kWh is the overstated "maximum" capacity that Zero and now Brammo seems to use : ( That would put "real" nominal capacity at around 10.2 kWh, which gives a more believable 110 Wh/mile.

Either way, it's a bit more expensive than the Empulse R or the top Zero bike in Europe, but much more powerful. 18k euros is right up there with the finest gas bikes (Ducati 1199 Panigale is 19k euros).

Available 2014 is somewhat disappointing - but it gives both Brammo and Zero a target to shoot for. I would be very surprised if Brammo makes significant changes to the Empulse one model year later, but it will give them time to refine the manufacturing process and hopefully cut costs a little.

With the Size 6 controller Brammo has headroom for an easy +50% power bump over the 2013 specs. They might have to do some tweaks, install a larger radiator, maybe move to a plus one GVM motor.. but Wes's first ride report was basically screaming that Empulse chassis would be very happy with more power.

I'm looking forward to seeing the 2013 Empulse TTX and 2013 Zero S duke it out on the racetrack. Maybe in 2014 we'll see an Empulse TTX2 vs Zero SS vs Energica?

[FreepZ]

Here's an article by Domenick over at Autoblog about the Energica.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/11/19/crp-energica-prototype-debuts-at-eicma-2012-w-video/

The article has a few more details about the bike, and a very nice video of the bike zooming along mountain roads.

It's a very attractive machine with some very nice specs. The biggest drawback from my perspective is that it won't be available until next year, and who know when it will be available in the US?

[protomech]

Allow me to be a retain a mote of skepticism for pre-announcement years in advance and for prices that are seem reasonable .. perhaps too reasonable.

Looks like an awesome bike. It will be interesting to see if Brammo and Zero have a competitor in that power range in 2014.

Speaking of which.. the racing for the TTX award this year was pretty good, despite it being a factory racing effort from a single manufacturer. Next year we should hopefully see both Brammo and Zero factory race teams competing for the TTX award. Maybe some privateers as well.

In 2014? Maybe Brammo, Zero, CRP, and privateer racers..

[ttxgpfan]

I'm going to back eCRP up on this.  The are a manufacturing company, even though they specialize in rapid prototyping and F1 parts.  But, they really seem to be on track and on schedule to make production for 2014.

However, even though if it came out today it would probably be the fastest elmoto on the street, as mentioned before Brammo and Zero don't stand still.  Zero seems OK with the new bike every year in progressive steps, but I think we'll see a new bike from Brammo ever 2 or 3 years, as far as replacements for a genre.  I suspect by the end of 2014 early 2015, we'll see something that resembles the Empulse RR for the street.  Screw "silent sport bike killer", that thing will be a liter bike slayer.  That gives eCRP a year, but I also suspect the Zero at that time will be on par with the Energica.

[FreepZ]

Screw "silent sport bike killer", that thing will be a liter bike slayer.

As much as I would like to see a liter bike slayer in a couple of years, I don't think that's going to happen that quickly. The big hold up is the battery pack, and improvements there are a lot slower than the rest of technology. At best, we could get more efficient motors and controllers that use less batter energy, but at the end of the day, when you're moving a bike through the air at 170 mph, or accelerating 500 lbs of mass, you're going to need lots of energy, which means better batteries.

There are promising discoveries being made in the battery field, but it takes years for those discoveries to make it into production.

I think that Brammo is going to take their existing technology and stick it in various configurations, like quads (with Polaris), dirt bikes, and possibly cruisers or some kind of touring bike with an over sized battery pack.

Eventually, energy sources (batteries of perhaps fuel cells) will improve to a point where electrics will be better than gas, but I don't think it will be in the next couple of years. (I hope I'm wrong though! )

[protomech]

Gas bikes are always going to win the range argument, though I think it will become less and less relevant over time.

I doubt range at 170 mph really matters hugely.. if sportbike riders hit those speeds outside a track, I would hope they do so only for a very brief period of time on a road with little traffic.

What's a sportbike tank hold? 4 gallons? This R32 got 7.6 mpg at 170 mph, I doubt a bike will do much better.. so talking 30-40 miles at those speeds.

The Lightning superbike returned 600 Wh/mile at 215 mph, 120 Wh/mile at freeway speeds. 170 mph is probably about 400 Wh/mile .. so a 12 kWh pack would be good for about 30 miles.

Equip the Lightning with the 22 kWh pack and an electric bike has more range than a gas bike. (220 freeway miles, versus maybe 160 on a gas literbike).

When Brammo and Zero released their first bikes in 2008, there were a lot of arguments against electric.

1. Very poor range (20-30 miles real world).
2. Slow charge times.
3. No loudpipes!! / No soul / etc
4. Limited top speed
5. Slow acceleration
6. No passenger space
7. Expensive ($12k enertia, $8k base Zero X) relative to competition

Those arguments are starting to fall, or at least diminish in importance.

1. Range - Empulse and Zero can return 70+ miles in real world riding, especially at 40-50 mph speeds
2. Empulse charges in 3.5 hours on J1772. Zero charges in 1h on CHAdeMO. Still room to improve..
3. ..
4. Zero can do 95 mph (or 105 with race gearing), Empulse can do 100+
5. Latest Zero lineup is 4-5s 0-60, Empulse is around 4-5s 0-60
6. Both Zero S and Empulse have passenger pegs now
7. Still a problem .. we have the $11000 Enertia Plus and the $7995 Zero XU .. both far more capable than their 2008 brethren.

[Richard230]

Also keep in mind that useful production electric motorcycles have only been available for four years.  Where was the IC motorcycle four years after the first one was sold and look at the progress made since.  We are just at the beginning of the technology and really all we need is better batteries, which no doubt will be coming in another 10 years or so, and electric motorcycles will finally be off to the (sales and customer acceptance) races. 

[protomech]

I doubt range at 170 mph really matters hugely.. if sportbike riders hit those speeds outside a track, I would hope they do so only for a very brief period of time on a road with little traffic.

What's a sportbike tank hold? 4 gallons? This R32 got 7.6 mpg at 170 mph, I doubt a bike will do much better.. so talking 30-40 miles at those speeds.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/05/03/11520520-police-boastful-motorcyclists-170-mph-joy-ride-ends-in-arrest?lite

Nikkolaus McCarthy, 25, was first spotted by a state trooper heading south on the Thruway just before 1:00 p.m. on Wednesday in the village of Ravena, N.Y., according to the New York State Police. The trooper noted his speed at the time -- 166 mph -- as well as the license plate number of his Suzuki motorcycle as it slowed down in traffic.

But after McCarthy sped up again, the trooper didn't follow him, instead giving out a description over the air. McCarthy was clocked by other troopers at other locations going between 150 and 170 mph.

Twenty minutes and 50 miles later, in New Paltz, N.Y., troopers were able to stop McCarthy when he slowed down in traffic. After being pulled over, McCarthy told the troopers he was low on gas; when he was advised of his speed, he told them his motorcycle could go over 190 mph, WHEC reported.

Getting blockheads like this off the street is the only useful thing you can do with a 170 mph bike on the road.

Which brings to mind another point.. if Zero is hitting 60 mph in < 6s with both the XU @ 20 kW, top speed 77 mph and the S @ 40 kW, top speed 95 mph.. if 100 mph is enough, I think we'll be at the limits of traction with 60-80 kW..

[ttxgpfan]

In 2 or three years we should see a 12kWh pack from Brammo at the very least.  But the nice thing about electric motors, even if they are more powerful range at street speeds shouldn't be compromised that much, if at all.  So, I feel that more powerful bikes won't affect range, and the only concern about batteries is the C rate.  Take the 2013 Zeros for example.  As always, your wrist affects range.

When I talked to Jensen Beeler last year, he pointed out that 3 things sold sport bikes, HP, top speed, and weight.  So limit power to 60-80kW if you want, but that will just hurt sales and cause the bikes not to be taken serious.  It sucks, I know.  Nothing worse than a squid on a GSX-R 600 who thinks he is faster than a VFR because someone who knows how to ride goes 2 seconds faster on a track for their magazine.  Of course this allows you the opportunity to ride away in the corners with a girl on the back on a bike that weighs 150lbs more.   It's an unfortunate reality of sportbike riding in the US.

[ttxgpfan]

Probably fixed. 80 km/h is 50 mph, the Zero uses around 100-110 Wh/mile at that speed.

11.7 kWh / 94 miles = 125 Wh/mile .. seems high, esp for a faired bike. Possibly the 11.7 kWh is the overstated "maximum" capacity that Zero and now Brammo seems to use : ( That would put "real" nominal capacity at around 10.2 kWh, which gives a more believable 110 Wh/mile.

I got confirmation after seeing something in an Italian article, 11.7kWh Nominal, and 13.2kWh max.  Boom.

But I too think their range numbers are very conservative.  The Dort Standard says 98 miles range.  But we know how scientific that is.