Lit Motors C-1 (gyro-bike) in NY Times

[Brammofan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/technology/start-ups/for-some-drivers-electric-motorcycle-could-be-the-best-of-both-worlds.html?_r=0

Quite a coup for them to get an article in the old grey lady. Still sounds like production is a long ways off.

[Richard230]

I saw that on a local TV news report a couple of weeks ago.  It is really neat and fascinating technology, but building, distributing and actually selling a production vehicle like that in any volume to the public is something that I don't see happening.  Jay Leno might buy one, but most of the public won't, as it only has two wheels.  Plus, having two wheels means that it would be classified as a motorcycle and the driver would have to wear a helmet and get a motorcycle drivers license endorsement.  As BMW found out with their C-1 scooter, wearing a helmet is a deal killer for most buyers of this type of vehicle.

[protomech]

Plus, having two wheels means that it would be classified as a motorcycle and the driver would have to wear a helmet and get a motorcycle drivers license endorsement.

Supposedly a helmet is not required, though the M certification is.

A fully-enclosed aero shell should make for reduced power required for highway operation - may offset the cost of the batteries.

Monotracer MTE-150 is fully enclosed, including a fully faired front wheel. They claim 180 miles range @ 75 mph, 20 kWh usable capacity (111 Wh/mile). 48 kW CHAdeMO would charge the Monotracer from 0-80% in approximately 20 minutes, if the batteries can handle a 3C charge rate.. giving it a charge rate of 430 miles/hour. (2x Tesla S with 100 kW Supercharger)

Improved aero will help a bit. More range for the same battery capacity/price/weight or same range with lower capacity/price/weight. Probably won't offset the cost / weight of the enclosure.

Zero S ZF11.4 claims 70 miles range @ 70 mph, has (IME) 9.9 kWh nominal capacity (141 Wh/mile).

If Lit is targeting an eventual $14k price then their battery is probably small - no larger than say 10 kWh. If they can achieve energy consumption between Monotracer and Zero - say 120 Wh/mile @ 70, that gives them an 80 mile range @ 70 mph with a 10 kWh battery.

[Brammofan]

I just spent the majority of my lunchtime discussing this with Mark Gardiner*

He was quite enthusiastic about how this bike will not work.  He went into a long description (lesson?) about how motorcycles turn, contact patches, radii, and leaning, and how the C-1's big selling point, the gyroscope, turns all that we know about motorcycles and corners on its head.  He was flabbergasted about the fact that the prototype appears to have motorcycle tires, when what it actually should have is a squared-off tire like a car, or a sidecar. 

After a thorough treatment of that subject, he then launched into a tirade about the physics within the shell of the vehicle, and how, even if you aren't required to wear a helmet, you should...along with a suit similar to the type worn by fighter pilots.  The g-forces that will affect you in a side impact, when you are around 2 inches from the inside of the cabin in a vehicle with only nominal mass (when compared with an SUV), are "like a baseball bat hitting a ping pong ball."

He had some other choice phrases to share about the vehicle with me, but I'm trying to keep my G rating.



Famous motorcycle journalist and author of one of the best damn books about motorcycles, "Riding Man."

[Vibetrippin]

There must be something that is not being mentioned in the press releases. If you can't lean the bike over (the press releases claim the bike cannot fall over) then you can't counter steer or lean the bike into a turn.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't take one for a rip if I was given the chance!

[protomech]

I believe the bike does lean into turns. They may have to spin up and spin down the gyroscopes in a controlled (and very quick) fashion to get the lean working properly.

[Richard230]

I met a fellow located in the East Bay a couple of years ago who owned a 1950's Messerschmidt three-wheel fully-enclosed scooter.  This is the one that was a reverse-trike, with a tilting bubble canopy (I think it was a left-over from one of their WWII ME-109 fighters), powered by a small two-stroke engine.  (As a note, one of the 1960's B&W Avengers episodes ended with Mrs. Peel and John Steel riding off into the gray overcast in a cloud of blue smoke, while making a loud buzzing noise.)  Anyway, the owner of that fully-enclosed car said that the cops kept giving him a ticket for not wearing a helmet, whenever he took it out for a ride around the neighborhood. He was told that anything with three wheels is classified as a motorcycle and anyone riding a motorcycle also had to wear a helmet.  Unless you ride a Harley with straight pipes and then all you need to wear is a "beanie" helmet or a do-rag on your head and the cops will look the other way.  

[oml]

im not incredible impressed either - the full fairing has huge advantages at high speeds, but thats about it. Im not fond of the automatic balance system, as I consider only vehicles which have the ability to fall over worth riding
In case of a crash the energy might reduced more softly by just rolling over - a chasis capable of holding the 300kg (?) shouldnt be magic.
About the turning and leaning in: I consider two possibilities, a) you dont have to lean in to counter the centrifugal (?) "force" as the gyros do the work or b) the gyros dont even hinder it - as you may see, gyros are often *very* conterintuitive: Helicopter Physics Series - #4 They're Gyroscopes - Smarter Every Day 48 (interesting part from ~0:58)


Well, I for myself wouldnt get it for almost any price, as it aims to be more like a car. Fairing is cool, but if i want to travel at >200 km/h I would prefer to just sit on a train nipping tee out of a aristocratic teenippingdevice and watch everything fly by in incredible speed

[Richard230]

City Bike magazine doesn't think too much of Lit Motors. In their January 2013 issue, in their "News, Clues and Rumors" column, on page 4, City Bike says that they had been getting a lot of news stories and videos forwarded to them by their readers and don't want any more.  They feel that there is no way the car can go 100 mph, get 200 miles on a charge and sell for $12,500, all using an 8 kWh battery pack and a couple of 20 kW hub motors.  Apparently they felt that there was a little exaggeration going on down at Lit Motors. So they sent a reporter to Lit Motor's headquarters in San Francisco to check out the progress that is being made on their two-wheel enclosed vehicle and inquire about their performance and cost claims.  But he was given the bum's rush and wasn't let in the front door.  They conclude with the following comments:  "What this looks like is an attempt to publicize some impressive engineering innovations, pumping up the value of a start-up so it can be sold for millions (hey, why not billions?) to a larger, established company with deep pockets - the 21st-century American Dream"

[Richard230]

City Bike magazine, in their March issue on page 11, under the "Events" column, lists the following item that will occur on April 1: "11:00 am: High-speed lane-splitting race on fully enclosed self-balancing electric supermotos. Register with Lit Motors by placing a $1000 deposit. Spectators may be repeatedly and embarrassingly injured. Kids ride free!

[kingcharles]

April 1st?
LOL