Author Topic: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus  (Read 1480 times)

Brammofan

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Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« on: March 04, 2011, 02:18:50 PM »
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Richard230

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 05:57:47 PM »
I particularly like the additional turning lock and the simplified method of starting up. The new batteries sound interesting, too.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

HighlanderMWC

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 08:04:03 PM »
I'm curious about battery life compared to the Enertia when used for a commute that requires say 90% of Enertia's capacity. IIRC they are comparing 500 cycles vs 2000 cycles...would that mean that the Plus batteries would only last half as long? (4x fewer cycles in life but 2x fewer charges required) Also, would the Plus actually have twice the range?

How will the Empulse 6.0 compare to the Plus?


Kelly Olsen

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2011, 03:58:39 AM »
Sounds like a lot of great improvements.

protomech

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 11:09:27 AM »
I'm curious about battery life compared to the Enertia when used for a commute that requires say 90% of Enertia's capacity. IIRC they are comparing 500 cycles vs 2000 cycles...would that mean that the Plus batteries would only last half as long? (4x fewer cycles in life but 2x fewer charges required) Also, would the Plus actually have twice the range?

How will the Empulse 6.0 compare to the Plus?
80% capacity and 23° C are pretty standard, if not otherwise specified. Usually the quoted capacity is < 1C.

Valence quotes 2500 cycles @ 0.5C, 23°C and 1500 cycles @ 0.5C, 45°C (to 80% capacity).
Leyden Energy specifies > 1000 cycles, likely @ 0.5C, 23°C, and to 80% capacity.

Now, in the Enertia you're typically going to be running at 1.5-2C (45-55 mph). Pack temperature may be higher than 23° C as well. 1000-1500 cycles is about what you'd expect, giving you about 30-50k total miles on the pack (to 80% capacity).

The Leyden Energy batteries will likely be operating at 0.75-1C, which should be a slightly lower drain. Pack temperatures again will be higher than 23° C (though LE claims their packs are optimized for high-temp operation), so I'll take a wild guess at 600-700 cycles @ 80%, or around 35k-50k miles.

But since the LE pack is almost twice the capacity of the Valence pack, at 80% you still have twice the range (say 50-60 miles instead of 25-30 miles). If you need 90% of the capacity of the Enertia 3.1 pack, it's going to quickly become incapable of making that commute (20-25k miles). The Enertia+ should make that same commute for well over 100k miles, assuming linear capacity loss.

Also unknown is how the two packs respond to near-complete depth of discharge. LE quotes 100% DOD in their lifecycle specification, which might mean their pack will tolerate extreme drain well. Some lithium packs will be permanently damaged if completely drained.

The Empulse 6.0 should have the same pack as the Enertia+, but it will be capable of much higher discharge rates (Enertia+: 2C peak, ~1C sustained .. Empulse 6.0, ~7C peak, likely ~4C sustained). If operated in the same fashion, the Empulse should get nearly the same battery life (slightly heavier, larger drag profile). If you use the Empulse for highway commuting or for enthusiastic riding (and who wouldn't), you might see lower battery lifetimes (20-25k miles to 80%?).
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Gavin

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2011, 12:50:47 PM »
6. Upgraded motor – This is still in final validation testing.  The power level is the same, but the motor features greater efficiency which reduces the heat generated, allowing more performance to be pulled out of the bike before it reaches thermal cutback temperature where current delivery starts to be reduced.


mmm, wonder if this means the fan will run less...or just that you can run faster longer...or both.

Gavin

protomech

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 01:36:26 PM »
6. Upgraded motor – This is still in final validation testing.  The power level is the same, but the motor features greater efficiency which reduces the heat generated, allowing more performance to be pulled out of the bike before it reaches thermal cutback temperature where current delivery starts to be reduced.


mmm, wonder if this means the fan will run less...or just that you can run faster longer...or both.

Gavin

Both, I expect.
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HighlanderMWC

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2011, 02:35:25 PM »
What is 1C discharge on an Enertia in kW?

Harlan

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 02:40:37 AM »
What is 1C discharge on an Enertia in kW?

If battery pack is 3kWh, 1C is a 3kW draw out of the pack.
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HighlanderMWC

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2011, 02:18:55 PM »
What is 1C discharge on an Enertia in kW?

If battery pack is 3kWh, 1C is a 3kW draw out of the pack.

So that would be an added benefit of a Plus...batteries would be less stressed on hills. I have one hill where I see 5kW when I'm being gentle (12kW when not) and it really seems to suck the range out. On a Plus that would jsut be a 1C pull (or 2C hammering it).

webman

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Re: Enertia vs. Enertia Plus
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 01:45:13 AM »
Wow, really nice improvements.  I'd really like to see how the improved motor works; perhaps this will mean you'll be able to run at higher speeds longer, without the motor overheating... always an issue in the (soon to be blazing hot) AZ/NV desert.
webman, aka eric

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current rides:  '97 yamaha seca II (low miles, but beater)
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