Author Topic: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs  (Read 1624 times)

Richard230

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Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« on: March 08, 2011, 09:26:29 PM »
I just received the April issue of Consumer Reports. On pages 14 and 15 they offer their initial impressions after driving both cars several weeks this winter.

They say the Volt is not cheap. They paid $48,700, which included a $5000 dealer markup. One thing that caught their attention immediately was a weak heater, which didn't keep their engineers very warm on frosty days. They said that they enjoyed its quiet operation, brisk acceleration and taut yet supple ride. However, they say that when the car is operating on only electric power its range is between 23 and 28 miles. The reduced range is likely due to the electric heater sucking power from the battery. When the IC motor kicks in, fuel mileage drops to only 30 mpg. Their Volt has been averaging around 2 miles per kWh. They also say that the trip computer would calculate fuel mileage based only on the gasoline used and not on the electricity used.

Their Volt has been taking almost 13 kWh and about 5 hours to recharge, using a Level 2 charger. They estimate that at 11 cents per kWh, the Volt costs about 5.7 cents per mile to run on electricity and 10 cents per mile using the IC motor - which they say is about what it costs to operate a Honda Fit, which costs less than half as much. Also mentioned is that the Volt can only accommodate 4 passengers due to the size of the battery taking up some space in the passenger compartment. Finally, when the outside temperature drops below 26 degrees, the IC motor comes on to produce more cabin heat.

Consumer Reports also commented on the Nissan Leaf. They are waiting their Leaf to be delivered, but borrowed one in SL trim, which is priced at $35,270. They thought the car is great for short trips, but the range drops from 36 miles to barely 19 miles during frigid weather. Using a 220-volt charger, charging times were between 7 and 9 hours and the Leaf has taken almost 22 kWh per charge. The recommend getting an additional DC charging port that allows the car to be charged in 27 minutes at a public charging station.

Consumer Reports averaged 3 miles per kWh or about 3.7 cents per mile. During one long cold snap they averaged just 65 miles per charge. They say the Leaf comes well equipped and includes a standard navigation system, which shows the car's driving range in concentric circles. The smaller circle shows how far you can venture out for a round-trip. Nearby public charging stations are also shown on the mapping system, as well as estimated power draw and estimated charging times.

They liked the Leaf a lot and say that it accelerates well, climbs hills effortlessly, handling is responsive and the heater gives ample warmth, unlike the Volt's. Also the Leaf seats five and getting in and out is very easy. Rear seat room is generous despite the narrow cabin. Their initial take is that the Leaf is a fun urban car that works best as a second or third vehicle in a temperate climate.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Kelly Olsen

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2011, 10:33:42 PM »
The Volt to me is not really an option. However, the Leaf is one of the most exciting cars I have ever driven or seen. Can't tell you about the range in the cold.

My experience is only in great climate here in Santa Monica, but I have a great little story about the range of a Leaf. One of my friends, who is the Vice-President of Plug In America, got the first Leaf in our community. He was selling solar panels for a living but loved the Leaf so much that he became a Leaf salesperson for Santa Monica Nissan and only sells the Leaf. He has already sold 85 of them (not yet delivered because they got behind in their building schedule).

A person came in and said he was concerned about range and he wanted a car that he could drive from Santa Monica to Disneyland on the freeway. That was his gauge for practicality since it was an 80 mile round trip. So he asked if the car could make it to Disneyland and my friend said, in theory it should but to be certain they should give it a try. So they set out for Disneyland.

They got to the front gate of Disneyland and the guy said OK, let's see if we can get back. So off they went and made the trip back. They used the air conditioner for part of the way as well.

When they got back they had done 85 miles in total (mostly freeway speeds which as we all know uses more power, not less like gas cars) and the gauge said there was 15 miles left in the batteries.

My friend was offered $70K for his. He was one of the very first orders placed. Like within seconds of the list opening up. He turned it down because he loves the car, plus even the dealer doesn't have a demo yet so he is using his for test drives.

They seem to be great and I placed my order after driving it.

akohekohe

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 02:12:51 AM »
I've had my LEAF since February 15.  I was the second one to get one in Hawaii.  I got is for MSRP and can take advantage of both the federal $7,500 tax credit and the $5,000 rebate from the State of Hawaii, so after taxes and fees it nets out to about $25,000.  All I can say is it is great fun to drive an electric vehicle and there are really no compromises at all.  It is fast and it will do the 100 miles. Did I mention it is fast. Makes me want my Empulse all that much more ...
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, then success is sure. - Mart Twain

Gavin

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2011, 10:40:47 AM »
Gah, you guys are making me sad that I will probably not be getting my LEAF when it comes in April (Kelly, when is yours coming? My dealer told me I could transfer mine to anybody I want...though that is not what Nissan says....but who knows)

Mine is going to Seattle in April (no dealers anytime soon in Albuquerque and the Seattle dealer was cool, gave me a good price and would ship the car to Albuquerque for me)...still haven't canceled, but while I like the LEAF and want an electric car, I really want something smaller and "nicer" looking...the LEAF is just a bit boring and I don't need seating for 5 and a trunk.

So I got in early obviously as I wanted to support EVs and I like Nissan...but Nissan will sell every LEAF they make for the first couple of years, with or without me...so I will likely wait for one of the 2 electrics I really want (other than the Enertia Plus :)...that I get the first freaking chance I get):

The Fiat 500 EV or the Volvo C30 EV.

So I will get one more gas car before going all Electric...and that car will be a short timer...getting a Fiat 500 Prima this month....will trade it in as soon as either the 500 EV comes out or the Volvo C30 EV comes out...both are either slated for or rumored to be late 2012...but I imagine it will be early to mid to late 2013 before we really see them

So two more years or so of gas...but really it will be a tank of gas at most a month...I will still ride my bicycles in the summer...my scooters the rest of the year....and my Enertia  Plus the second I get it will be under my butt probably every damn day :)

The cage/car will only be for snow and ice and for dinners out and date nights with the wife....

Gavin


(maybe brammo would want my LEAF? Seattle is much closer to them than me...we could work out a "deal"...give them my place in line---April---then get me my Plus a bit sooner :)  )
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 10:43:31 AM by Gavin »

Richard230

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2011, 11:05:43 AM »
I have my automobile use down to only 1000 miles a year.  ;D  Mostly back and forth to the grocery and hardware stores.  An electric car probably wouldn't be worth the money to me, but since I ride my motorcycles about 18,000 miles a year, an electric motorcycle with an estimated range of 100 miles would sure be useful.   ;)
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Gavin

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 11:20:50 AM »
Yeah...I will put less that 4k a year on my car...likely much less than 4k...right now I put 0 miles on my car as I don't have one :)  I do drive my wife's car probably 10 miles a month...the only reason I might put up to 4k on my new car is that I could get a driving bug and take it on some road trips...but that seems unlikely...if no long road trips I too will likely put around 1 or 2k at most a year on my car.

But if I get an electric car, just think, it will last forever....a couple k a year in driving, garage kept...It could be the last car I ever buy :) ...30 years later and 75k in miles...no rust (garage kept and no salt on our roads, nor in our air), just in time to get a new battery pack and give to my grandkids to drive...gah, 30 years, ready to give to great grandkids to drive :)

And yes my electric motorcycle will get the most daily driving...but I will likely keep, at least till batteries improve, one gas scooter...I need something when I want to drive 500 miles across the southwest countryside in a day...well something other than a sanity check :0

Gavin
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 11:37:49 AM by Gavin »

Kelly Olsen

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 06:43:15 AM »
My friend with the new Leaf had (still has in fact) an electric Toyota RAV 4. Drove it for 8 years. Put on about 90,000 miles.

"Fuel" Costs for 8 years and 90,000 miles of driving = Zero (solar panels supplied all the charging). Yes, panels cost, but he had them for the house anyway.

Mechanical maintenance costs for 8 years and 90,000 miles of driving = Zero (only needed tires and windshield wipers).

Cost of never having to go to a gas station, have the oil changed, tune-up, transmission serviced, radiator serviced, smog check, etc, etc, etc?

Priceless!

Richard230

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 10:00:49 AM »
That is the way to go - if you have enough solar power panels and enough sunshine to charge your vehicle within a reasonable amount of time. I would be surprised if the solar panels on a home's roof could supply enough electricity to both supply electricity to the home as well as charge up a vehicle's batteries within a day, though.   :-\
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Gavin

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 10:07:13 AM »
310 sunny days a year here and a south facing roof :) Haven't paid an electric bill since I put my panels up...if fact the local utility company has paid me on average 35 bucks a month for my extra production...figure once I get my electric car and motorcycle I will likely break even with usage = production...

And that is with panels only on half my roof...the other half has too much shading from our 50 year old tree that has reached near end of life...figure it has no more than 5 years left...at which point I will put up more panels :)    and a smaller tree (this one is over 50 feet tall...a nice 25 t0 30 foot tree will still give nice shade and be pretty, but won't shade the roof.

Gavin
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 11:02:11 AM by Gavin »

Richard230

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 05:00:47 PM »
Very impressive Gavin. Way to go!   ;D

Where I live, I think I get 310 days of fog.   ::)
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Kelly Olsen

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 06:14:04 PM »
I would be surprised if the solar panels on a home's roof could supply enough electricity to both supply electricity to the home as well as charge up a vehicle's batteries within a day, though.   :-\

Well, I kind of fudged, I guess. I should have mentioned that they were connected to the grid because they did not have a battery storage system to store the extra energy for night use. So they used a bit of the grid at night. So all household appliances, including TV, fridge, lights, computer, etc., AND charging of an EV as well as a Vectrix scooter did cost something, but it was so negligible I didn't mention it.

For full disclosure, I should say that they do have to pay something and do not get it all from solar. If they had put in a storage system they would have been able to do it all for free off the panels, but as it is they have to pay.

I apologize for not mentioning that to augment the solar panels, they pay the electric company about $2.50 a month to run their house and two vehicles. Sorry about that. :)

Kelly Olsen

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2011, 06:42:38 PM »
Gah, you guys are making me sad that I will probably not be getting my LEAF when it comes in April (Kelly, when is yours coming? My dealer told me I could transfer mine to anybody I want...though that is not what Nissan says....but who knows)

I'm late to the game ordering so mine won't be until about 10 months and who knows now since the quake in Japan has shut down the plant for a few days anyway. They also had cars destroyed that were at the docks waiting for shipping, but don't know if they were Leafs.

As far as transferring the car: As I understand from my friend who sells them, he encourages anybody that has a confirmation to go ahead and have the car come to the dealership. You still do not have to buy it even when it gets there. He wants people to do so because he has a waiting list and he can sell the car over list price to those people. He charges just the list price to the people that have ordered and have been in the official line.

So, yes, if your dealer is cooperative, you could say to him, I'm not going to by it but my friend wants it. I don't know if he will because once he has one that is unclaimed he can get a lot more money for it from people that don't want to wait. As I might have said before, my friend was offered $70k for his and he has had multiple offers. But you could say to the dealer, if he won't go along with the plan, then you won't go ahead and fulfill the order and he will be out of a sale and not have the car to sell to anybody, so you do have some leverage. Just make certain you have a written agreement. After all, these are car salesmen :D

If I were you, and I didn't want the car (which I can't understand) I'd get the car anyway and then put it on the market and sell to somebody that wants it NOW. I suspect you could almost get enough profit to buy a new Enertia Plus. At least while the market is the way it is now with so few available and the demand high.

FreepZ

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Re: Consumer Reports reviews the Volt and Leaf EVs
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2011, 06:59:29 PM »
Thanks for the Volt vs Leaf comparison.

When I first started looking at an EV, I wanted a Leaf rather than the Volt, since I wanted to get away from all the maintenance required to have an ICE, and I didn't want to have haul that ICE along with me. The problem was that I take an 80 mile trip to the coast every weekend, and I wanted to be able to make the trip there, and then make a U-turn and come back again if I needed to. 160 miles is too far for most EVs these days. :(

The Volt sounded like it would be better suited to me, but it's just so darned expensive, and looking at that report, it doesn't even appear to run all that cheaply.

An Empulse doesn't do 160 miles (although I've read somewhere on this forum that it could do about 150 miles on a single charge, but I'm sure that would be driving at 35 mph all the way with no hills or headwinds), but it's a lot less expensive than a Volt or a Leaf, and a lot more fun too! 8)
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