"Revving" the Empulse?

[FreepZ]

I'm sure that I'm not the only person out there who has generated some excitement by revving up their ICEs to get the "Vroom!" sound.

Since the Empulse has a clutch, we should be able to do that too. Of course there will be some significant differences.

• The electric motor is probably going to spin up very fast.
• Hopefully, the computer will prevent me from damaging the motor if I did that.
• Since I don't expect there to be a neutral gear on the bike, it's pretty risky. Accidentally drop the clutch and the bike is going to shoot off!
• It's probably not going to be the same feeling as revving an ICE, although I do think it will be pretty cool.

Anybody have any thoughts about that?

[Brammofan]

I think it is time for a new paradigm regarding generating excitement while sitting on a stationary motorcycle.

[EmpulseRider]

I'm sure that I'm not the only person out there who has generated some excitement by revving up their ICEs to get the "Vroom!" sound.

Since the Empulse has a clutch, we should be able to do that too. Of course there will be some significant differences.

• The electric motor is probably going to spin up very fast.
• Hopefully, the computer will prevent me from damaging the motor if I did that.
• Since I don't expect there to be a neutral gear on the bike, it's pretty risky. Accidentally drop the clutch and the bike is going to shoot off!
• It's probably not going to be the same feeling as revving an ICE, although I do think it will be pretty cool.

Anybody have any thoughts about that?

You may end up looking like a tool doing that.   The Empulse sounds cool but revving the electric motor at a stop light will probably get you laughed at... Its just not the same as revving a traditional engine, and thats a good thing.

I say "traditional" because that shit is old school, yo!

[Brammofan]

You may end up looking like a tool doing that.  

Well, I was thinking this, but decided to use big words to say it more tactfully.   

[protomech]

I don't know if the IET will have a neutral gear. There's absolutely no functional reason to include one, but if they want to emulate the gas gearbox closely then they probably will include one. The motor introduces a small amount of drag if you push it while it's in gear, but honestly it's not worth mentioning.

The Zero for sure has some audible motor whine, I would expect the Empulse to also not be absolutely silent at a close distance. Who knows, you may enjoy the quiet motor noise..

I was thinking about that this morning, actually.. the Zero's motor has a fan mounted on the "crank" shaft.. so the fan spins as fast as the motor does. Just finished a run with a friend and would have been nice to get a bit of air flowing while I changed back into motorcycle gear : )

[Gavin]

eh, smoke the rear tire if you want to impress the ICE crowd...

just don't do it too often...tires are expensive...

Gavin

[2Slow4u]

I think this would be a terrible idea and probably break something. If you rev a brushed dc motor you can generate a plasma ball and f* some stuff up pretty quick. These are not those motors but i can't imagine anything good coming from it. I would assume Brammo's engineers have accounted for this use case an you will be safe though. Either in a throttle request lock out when in neutral or some sort of ramp rate limit.

[flar]

I was going to say that the computer might not let you rev with the clutch pulled in in the first place, but they may need to allow it to engage for no other reason than for the occasional need to help the gears engage (most notably if you coast to a stop with the clutch pulled in, then it is hard to downshift without blipping the clutch slightly).

With respect to having a neutral - it might actually cost more to get rid of it as that would require a custom gear set rather than taking a stock design (they are likely going to need a somewhat unique set of ratios compared to an ICE bike, but choosing different gear cogs is less of a customization than removing a neutral mechanism).  One advantage to having neutral is having the bike sitting, on, but in a mode where nobody can run over themselves by grabbing the wrong handlebar.  When I test rode the Zero there was a little safety lesson before I could board the bike that involved basically "keep in mind that if you touch the throttle now it *will* move so watch what you do".

It might take less power to put a small speaker that emits a whining sound when you twist the throttle while disengaged. How about some LEDs in the motor casing that make it look like a plasma ball is forming? 

[FreepZ]

I would be surprised if there was a neutral on that transmission. The IET was designed from the ground up to be a transmission for an electric motor, so there is no need to accommodate the quirky requirements of an ICE transmission. (But who knows? Perhaps when they decided to mimic an ICE engine, they including the neutral position.)

As for the throttle dangers on a "live" bike; the Enertia has exactly the same issue, which is dealt with by having those flashing lights on the top of the instrument cluster. The Empulse appears to have the same lights.

I thought that there may be some bike throttle thing that people do that involves revving up the engine and then dumping the clutch. It doesn't sound like something that I would do, as I suspect that it would damage the poor bike, but perhaps some people do that. Am I on to anything here, or just talking nonsense?

I hadn't thought about plasma balls in the motor. I assume the computer will save us from that (until we figure out how to disable that, and then all we need to do is channel the plasma ball, and we have a pretty awesome weapon to fight Zombies and Aliens!)

[1lesscar]

I have suggested in the past some kind of ice exhaust/engine sound as an acessory. Would be a nice option for those that will miss the feel of an old motorcycle.

I was going to say that the computer might not let you rev with the clutch pulled in in the first place, but they may need to allow it to engage for no other reason than for the occasional need to help the gears engage (most notably if you coast to a stop with the clutch pulled in, then it is hard to downshift without blipping the clutch slightly).

With respect to having a neutral - it might actually cost more to get rid of it as that would require a custom gear set rather than taking a stock design (they are likely going to need a somewhat unique set of ratios compared to an ICE bike, but choosing different gear cogs is less of a customization than removing a neutral mechanism).  One advantage to having neutral is having the bike sitting, on, but in a mode where nobody can run over themselves by grabbing the wrong handlebar.  When I test rode the Zero there was a little safety lesson before I could board the bike that involved basically "keep in mind that if you touch the throttle now it *will* move so watch what you do".

It might take less power to put a small speaker that emits a whining sound when you twist the throttle while disengaged. How about some LEDs in the motor casing that make it look like a plasma ball is forming? 

[flar]

As for the throttle dangers on a "live" bike; the Enertia has exactly the same issue, which is dealt with by having those flashing lights on the top of the instrument cluster. The Empulse appears to have the same lights.

"live bike" issues are probably not worth adding a neutral mode to a single gear direct drive system, but once you have gears and involving a neutral position is a well known mechanism, it's not much of a bother to add it for "increased" safety.  You'd still want some indicators because when it is in gear and stopped there is no engine sound to warn you that the throttle is live...

[Car Loss]

"live bike" issues are probably not worth adding a neutral mode to a single gear direct drive system, but once you have gears and involving a neutral position is a well known mechanism, it's not much of a bother to add it for "increased" safety. 

It's a new world! "Live bike" issues can be taken care of by the engine computer cutting power somewhere.  Way easier to implement than an extra transmission operating condition.  Especially since you need a power cut anyway, due to 6 kWh being enough to seriously **** up something.

Sometimes, you can't modify any more, and you might as well cut clean from the old model.  That's why we ride motorcycles instead of cars, not go-karts.

For that matter, electric drive also means reverse gear can be implemented.  Does anyone seriously think reverse will be engaged by extra gearing, that will be dead weight 99.9% of the time, or by a switch somewhere, flipping polarity?

[flar]

"live bike" issues are probably not worth adding a neutral mode to a single gear direct drive system, but once you have gears and involving a neutral position is a well known mechanism, it's not much of a bother to add it for "increased" safety. 

It's a new world! "Live bike" issues can be taken care of by the engine computer cutting power somewhere.  Way easier to implement than an extra transmission operating condition.  Especially since you need a power cut anyway, due to 6 kWh being enough to seriously **** up something.

Some of the design choices on this bike are there "for feel", not because they are needed.  In general, an electric vehicle may not need a neutral, but is that the design choice they'd make for this bike where they are clearly not embracing all of the clean cuts one might make from the old world?

Sometimes, you can't modify any more, and you might as well cut clean from the old model.  That's why we ride motorcycles instead of cars, not go-karts.

For that matter, electric drive also means reverse gear can be implemented.  Does anyone seriously think reverse will be engaged by extra gearing, that will be dead weight 99.9% of the time, or by a switch somewhere, flipping polarity?

Technically, can't they also do away with the clutch lever with controller logic?  And yet they still have one.

[Car Loss]

Technically, can't they also do away with the clutch lever with controller logic?  And yet they still have one.

Sure, but if the rationale is "live bike" safety, then having _both_ a clutch and a neutral is mostly redundant.  Of course, if the decision is driven by marketing, not engineering, then yes, "for feel" becomes a rationale, and then it's a matter of whether the marketing people can override engineering.  Maybe, maybe not.

I forget: did the old, direct-drive Empulse prototypes have a clutch?  If so, was it a mechanical clutch, or "virtual"? 

Back on topic: electric vehicles may need a speaker anyway, due to pedestrian safety.  It may be mandatory.  I remember the first time a hybrid car crept up on me in a parking lot, in "stealth mode."  Way creepy the first time or two.  If you've already got a speaker, then rev sounds would just be combined with some "live bike" sound. 

[FreepZ]

I forget: did the old, direct-drive Empulse prototypes have a clutch?  If so, was it a mechanical clutch, or "virtual"? 

No clutch. The bike that they raced with didn't have one either. Steve Atlas, their rider, had said that the lack of clutch took a bit of getting used to.

From Electric Superbike Racing: Brammo Part I

My left hand must have swatted at the clutch lever under braking for every corner during at least the first three laps of every session; not to mention I would consistently find my left foot pawing at an imaginary shift lever far more frequently than I would like to admit.

If you've already got a speaker, then rev sounds would just be combined with some "live bike" sound. 

Just as long it's nothing like the Domino Pizza sound...