Author Topic: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!  (Read 3208 times)

EmpulseRider

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 889
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2013, 01:14:41 PM »
Oh yeah... hmmm. That's a neat program. Yeah, I will try and get em back online this week.

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 03:47:57 PM »
2013 Zero XU ZF5.7 is the spiritual replacement for the 2012 S ZF6 in my opinion. Top speed decreases slightly, but range is better and acceleration should be markedly improved. Price drops $1k.

It would be nice to have a user-defined electric motorcycle, for this reason.. could also be used to compare used electrics.

2012 S ZF9 should be ($13995 * (1 + local sales tax rate) - state incentives) * 0.9 - $2500 - gas trade-in value. I think. Ignoring sales tax, state incentives, and trade-in value, this would put the Zero S price at $10.1k.
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/

ttxgpfan

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 07:20:31 PM »
I'm not sure you have included the 1qt of oil the Empulse's transmission needs every 3000 miles, or have you?

EmpulseRider

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 889
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 08:33:52 PM »
2013 Zero XU ZF5.7 is the spiritual replacement for the 2012 S ZF6 in my opinion. Top speed decreases slightly, but range is better and acceleration should be markedly improved. Price drops $1k.

It would be nice to have a user-defined electric motorcycle, for this reason.. could also be used to compare used electrics.

2012 S ZF9 should be ($13995 * (1 + local sales tax rate) - state incentives) * 0.9 - $2500 - gas trade-in value. I think. Ignoring sales tax, state incentives, and trade-in value, this would put the Zero S price at $10.1k.

OK, I will add a custom selection for EVs as I have for ICE motorcycles in the next revision.

I'm not sure you have included the 1qt of oil the Empulse's transmission needs every 3000 miles, or have you?

Not sure if the cost for a quart of oil is worth adding... whats a quart of oil, 5 bucks? I really want to keep the form as simple and clean as possible.

Thanks for the feedback fellas!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 08:35:34 PM by EmpulseBuyer »

EmpulseRider

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 889
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2013, 12:49:07 PM »
Can you put em back? I wanna calc with the 2012 and the 2500 cash for carbon deal they have.

- sent from my Android phone

OK Frodus, the 2012 Zero S / DS models are back in the calculator. Enjoy!

frodus

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2013, 04:32:52 PM »
Thanks! Looks great, thanks for adding those.

Any chance there's a way to have a user defined "rebate" under the electric motorcycle drop down? as a way to enter in the $2500 cash for carbon deal as well as other incentives?

or a way to compare two electrics? I'm trying to narrow down things between a 2013 Zero and an Empulse
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 04:35:42 PM by frodus »

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2013, 05:25:14 PM »
Comparing electrics is basically down to comparing MSRP and various incentives if applicable.

If you use city/highway range, the Empulse gets 77 miles from 9.3 kWh nominal battery capacity (142 Wh/mile @ 85% charge efficiency) and the Zero S ZF8.5 gets 70 miles from (probably) 7.6 kWh nominal battery capacity (127 Wh/mile @ 85% charge efficiency).

At $0.115/kWh, this represents a cost of $0.0163/mile Empulse and $0.0146/mile Zero.

The $0.0017/mile charging difference adds up to $170 over 100k miles. Pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things.

I think the Zero S ZF8.5 and the Empulse non-R are the most comparable of the two bikes. The ZF11.4 offers (in theory) significantly higher range than the Empulse (21% higher mixed, 25% higher highway) and the Empulse R is much better at being a sportbike.

IET and appearance IMO are subjective. The Empulse's IET should give it a small advantage in acceleration and top speed .. the bigger advantage would be if you specifically wanted the ability to shift gears. Riding both may be a good plan if you're on the fence.

Empulse non-R pros:
* faster AC charging (22 combined miles/hour vs 8.8 miles/hour Zero)
* 5-20% more range than ZF8.5
* probably more consistent performance, range due to liquid-cooled motor and battery cell heaters
* larger motor controller
* nicer brakes & suspension, sportier tires
* chain drive is more durable

Zero S ZF8.5 and ZF11.4 pros:
* ~10% more efficient, per range specification
* belt drive is very quiet, maintenance-free
* smartphone integration
* integrated storage (tank, charging cord)

Zero S ZF8.5 pros (vs Empulse non-R):
* faster DC charging (67 combined miles/hour), with optional CHAdeMO upgrade ($$)
* much lighter (350 pounds vs 470 pounds)
* $3000 lower MSRP

Zero S ZF11.4 pros (vs Empulse non-R):
* faster DC charging (88 combined miles/hour), with optional CHAdeMO upgrade ($$)
* 13-25% more range than Empulse
* lighter (382 pounds vs 470 pounds)
* $1000 lower MSRP

Edit: added a Zero S ZF11.4 comparison
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 12:43:44 PM by protomech »
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/

EmpulseRider

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 889
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 11:02:48 AM »
What he said... Thanks for the comparison Proto. Personally I would take the Empulse ;D.

frodus

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 12:25:33 PM »
Thanks guys!

Lots of benefits on both sides! It's going to be hard.


kingcharles

  • Empulse E1 80-MF-DR
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 544
    • View Profile
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2013, 05:31:32 PM »
From previous price announcements in Germany it could turn out that the Empulse would be cheaper than the Zero S. maybe we need an EU version of the tool?
Once you go EV, gas is history!

EmpulseRider

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 889
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2013, 06:50:17 PM »
Yeah... I am working on the "metric" version of the tool. I will probably use EU pricing if i can find consistent data. Hevent looked yet to be quite honest... but it is on the way. Sorry for the delay.

Xaero

  • Enertia Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: Use my TCO Calculator to Help You Make a Decision!
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2013, 11:34:03 PM »
Nice updates to the calculator!  Tennessee needs a rebate...

"faring picture"

I am throwing money at my monitor and nothing is happening!  A fairing on a E+ looks dead sexy!