Author Topic: Electric Power-train Question  (Read 757 times)

Mithion

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 241
  • Raised on a Harley but all about electric power!
    • View Profile
    • Email
Electric Power-train Question
« on: May 25, 2012, 11:09:06 AM »
I was just curious if there, at this point, is a general "best" electric power-train setup for an electric motorcycle, by this I mean is there a best combination of battery size/type/weight/kWh, motor size/wattage/weight etc, frame etc? Just a all around combination of- if you put these specs together they perform best.

Just curious, thanks for the knowledge.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 11:15:22 AM by Mithion »

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: Electric Power-train Question
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2012, 11:53:29 AM »
It's good to have a balanced platform.

It doesn't make sense to use a more powerful motor than your batteries can support.

Generally the larger the battery (of a particular chemistry), the more power you can get out of the battery. If you're going for more power, you might opt to use a power chemistry (which offers more power/weight but less energy/weight = range/weight). So there's a power / energy / weight tradeoff.

The heavier the battery and motor you use, the heavier you need to make the frame.. and then you need heavier brakes, heavier shocks, etc .. and all the weight further reduces low speed range. We've seen this with the Zero bikes - they've gone from the 2009 S @ 225 lbs, 3.6 kWh to the 2012 S ZF9 @ 341 lbs, 7.9 kWh.

Despite the weight gains, the Zero bikes have supposedly gotten more efficient over time.

The 2009 S was rated at a highly optimistic "up to 50 miles" (72 Wh/mile).
The 2010 S increased to 270 lbs (though I wonder if the 2009s actually weighed 225), no change in battery or maximum range.
The 2011 S increased pack size to 3.9 kWh and weight to 297 lbs. EPA UDDS range is 43 miles (91 Wh/mile), maximum range is highly optimistic "up to 58 miles" (67 Wh/mile).
The 2012 S ZF6 increased pack size up to 5.3 kWh, weigh still officially at 297 lbs. EPA UDDS range is 76 miles (70 Wh/mile).

There's no all-round "best" combination of attributes .. but for a particular goal (say racing in the IOM TT) there may be one or two locally optimal configurations. Generally speaking the race bikes have gravitated towards large pack direct drive high RPM AC motors. One exception is Kawasaki's entry, which uses a ZX-10R frame, fairings, and transmission paired with a slightly smaller battery pack.
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/

Mithion

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 241
  • Raised on a Harley but all about electric power!
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Electric Power-train Question
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2012, 04:22:25 PM »
Thanks for the knowledge

Now, in your opinion is there currently a bike out there, production/race/whatever, that seems to have the best possible combination of components available for its intended purpose?

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: Electric Power-train Question
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2012, 10:48:26 PM »
Short answer: No.

Everything is a tradeoff.

price vs performance
weight vs range
power vs energy
top speed vs acceleration vs simplicity

One person might say the Empulse is the best electric sportbike. Another person would say that they put more weight on pricing, and the Zero is better. Another person might say the Lightning bike is the best.

They can all be correct in their own particular cases.

The 2012 Zero bikes were large improvements over the 2011 bikes. But not in all areas: price went up significantly, the controller software is locked down, weight goes up if you choose the larger battery pack. One person may weigh those tradeoffs differently from another person.
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/