Fully Charged reviews e-bikes

[Richard230]

Fully Charged has made a video reviewing various electric motorcycles, the Vectrix and the Zero S. You can see it here:



At the end of the show they say that they will have something really cool up their leather sleeves in Part 2 of the show. Could it be a review of the Empulse R?   

[protomech]

A nice overview.

Notice they don't mention pricing for the Vectrix or the Zero ; )

Zero 0-60 mph is closer to 10s. 5s is obviously wrong. I'm assuming the Vectrix 0-60 in 6s is similarly optimistic.

I guess the "something really cool" would be an electric race bike - perhaps one of the Agni bikes? Maybe the Energica? I would be a little surprised if they were the first to come out with the Empulse review, Brammo isn't exactly prioritizing UK / Euro sales or marketing.

[FreepZ]

And here is the promised follow up video:


The Agility Saietta. A fast (0 to 60 in under 4 seconds), 100+ mile range bike. It looks pretty iconic (and it's got fairing too!)

[Richard230]

Well, The Agility Saietta is certainly an unusual design and would look great in an art museum. But for me, it needs to be able to carry luggage so that I can use it for something other than just riding around. It looks to me that the only place to carry luggage would be on the rider's back.  Plus, the bike's representative spoke several times about using it for commuting and that just doesn't look like a commute vehicle to me, nor is it likely to be priced like something to be used for commuting.  It looks like something Jay Leno needs to add to his collection. 

[protomech]

They claim to have an available side-pannier system.

Interesting to compare their specifications against the Empulse. Pricing is based its unveiling in Feb 2011; I think it's reasonable to be skeptical as they don't list it anywhere on their website.

Saietta R, £13,975 (incl VAT, comparable to $18k USD MSRP)
0-60 in 4s
Weight < 440 lbs
Peak motor power 67 kW, direct drive chain
9.77 kWh battery (nominal)
112 mile city range, 58 mile highway range

Saietta S, £9,975 (incl VAT, comparable to $13k USD MSRP)
0-60 in 5.5s
Weight < 330 lbs
Peak motor power 34 kW, direct drive chain
4.9 kWh battery (nominal)
58 mile city

Slightly higher city energy consumption than both the Empulse and the Enertia Plus respectively.

Pricing based on Honda UK and US pricing for CBR600RR, £8900 and $11540. UK pricing typically includes VAT and road registration, US pricing MSRP does not include taxes or registration.

[machone]

Thanks for this guys......

If it's there, looks like I'll be waving cheerio to the Empulse. Certainly easier and quicker for me to get one, if it's not a hoax.

I remember seeing it before but ignored it for some reason, I think it wasn't being produced. The price is much lower than the Empulse will work out at here in Holland.

Ugly though, really ugly! Also, having previously used and stopped using tank bags, I'm not convinced about how comfortable it'll be with it's 'fat' front end.

The acceleration is closer to what I was hoping for and there is a 2 seat version!

[protomech]

After watching the fully charged episode, it definitely doesn't seem to be a hoax. It's unclear what the production schedule or pricing will look like - seems to be about where we've been with the Empulse up until a few months ago.

[machone]

I've sent off a request for a test ride and more info. Will post here.

Sort of reminds me of the Jaguar bike linked from here and the comments it provoked:

http://www.toxel.com/tech/2010/01/08/10-cool-and-unusual-motorcycles/

Amazing work but horrible and I'm sure unexpected zoophilic backfire that the comments did justice...Brilliant

[Shinysideup]

The spec that impressed me: 120Nm of torque, about twice that of the Empulse.

[Deadly Silent Ninja]

You add a couple of laser cannons and anti-gravity device and I might get interested. If the thing is going to look like something out of a science fiction movie, I want all the specs, too. Otherwise, it's another toy. 

Seriously, it looks fast and the specs are good (the price is appealing for the specs), but I want to know more. It reminds me of Mr. Garrison's bike:

[machone]

Arranging a test ride for mid July. £13995 on the road price. 3.5hrs plug in charge so has on board charger. 0-60 in 4secs single rider with range 100miles at between 75mph and 120mph. 2 seat option.

Lead time in UK/Europe 2-3 months from order to delivery. First production July. Am I going to wait for a less specced better looking Empulse....mmmm, no.

I'll see how the test ride goes first, though. Just shows, with emerging technology, you've gotta be quick on the draw!

[protomech]

75-120 km/h I assume?

They claim 58 miles @ 70 mph (112 km/h), 74 miles in a 50/50 mix of highway and city riding. I would bet to get 100 miles on the bike you would need to go no faster than 40 mph (64 km/h) .. 75-120 km/h seems ludicrous.

The Empulse specs look pretty comparable. Saietta is a little lighter but has much more power (67 kW vs 40 kW Empulse). It's a direct drive, which should make it a little more reliable and lower maintenance. There is a tradeoff between acceleration and speed. You'll note that the 4 second 0-60 specification has a Client transmission option tag by it, which probably means the customer bike was specially geared higher for acceleration and has a lower top speed. You could probably get your bike geared like that as well if super-highway speed is unimportant, but if you gear it for 100 mph like the Empulse then you're probably still looking at 5-6s 0-60.

Hope your test ride goes well, would love to see any impressions you have.

Fun with numbers: the Zero bike's motor is 42 Nm until power-limited. Saietta is 127 Nm. Zero weighs 520 lbs with a 180 lb rider, Saietta weighs 620 lbs with a 180 lb rider.

Zero does 0-60 in 10s, Saietta claims 4s. Saietta needs 250% the torque to weight ratio, generally speaking, to hit its performance target.. 127/42 * (520/620) = 2.54. So gearing should be very similar to Zero, if Saietta's motor has a lower maximum RPM than Zero then it will have a lower top speed.

[protomech]

I'm curious what motor they're using.

This looks just like an Agni motor:



Saietta S is approximately half the power / torque of Saietta R, so it's likely that the R is using a dual stator or dual motor configuration.

An Agni 119R @ 96V / 400A should put out around 34 kW and 64 Nm, which is exactly what the Saietta S is rated at.

Cedric Lynch used to work for a company called .. well, Lynch Motor Company (now seems to be called Lees Motor Company?). They continue to make axial flux PM DC motors .. and in fact they say they have a new "new V-twin motor [which] will be available mid 2012". Very similar to the Agni motors .. not surprisingly.

Either way.. I'm guessing the S uses a single Agni/LMC motor, and the R uses a twin motor configuration. Racing reliability for those motors, particularly in a multi-motor configuration, has been poor.. but the Agni Zero bikes seem to have done okay.

[machone]

Thanks for the numbers Protomech. There's a member of their engineering department phoning me back this week. Small difference in customer service there!

Questions I should ask?

1) I will confirm 0-60 times/options/gearing
2) Charging configuration
3) Why their numbers don't stack up regarding range/speed.

The reason it is so ugly is the fat is battery. The big price difference is speed/range/battery but possibly motor. 50mile range 0-60 in 5.something for S 100mile 0-60 in 4secs for R.

Any and all questions to ask gratefully received. Test ride is where they are made and price is solid, which makes a change and I like.

Still ugly though.

[Richard230]

Maybe it looks better in person.  Many times that is the case with weird-looking motorcycles.

I'll be looking forward to your riding impressions and any information you can glean from talking with the designers.