Contact from Brammo

[kingcharles]

Yep, I already delayed the trade in of my Vectrix with one year. The battery is really starting to decline now and not before long I will no longer make it to the office. So there will be a replacement soon. If Zero can deliver the 2013 model in the EU in May and Brammo delays again, I am buying the Zero S

[iamawake]

I took a test ride on the Zero S just a week ago - I'm used to a Harley cruiser, and it felt so darn strange...gave it gas and felt like nothing was happening, but looked down and I was going 50 (in a residential) so...

Was fun!  But the look is unrefined.  It looks like a kit bike, or something - the clunky metal box for the batteries leaves something to be desired.  The 2013 looks a *little* better, but...

Still waiting for the Empulse.  My Nightrain isn't gone yet, I can wait a little bit.  What's the delay, a couple months?   Then again, I did wait a couple years for the Aptera, and it never showed...heh.

[kingcharles]

On Intermot yesterday I asked what my pre-order meant with regards to getting the Brammo Empulse in Holland. The anwer was: not before August 2013!
From the Enertia plus this means August turns to November 15 in no time...
So I explained that I was now contemplating on getting myself the 2013 Zero S because that is shipping to EU in March! And in 2012 they made their promise so I have faith in this one also.
I was adviced to contact Brammo US and explain that if the bike does not arrive sooner that I would buy the Zero.

[Deadly Silent Ninja]

If they can't give us specific information at this time, at least give us what they can now and give us a hard date when they will update us again.

It'd also be nice if Brammo acknowledged, even if in a small way, that its would-be customers have been waiting for more than two years now and that the prices have changed rather substantially. It feels like they invited us all to a party, and then simply forgot to show up. A simple "we're sorry, here's what went wrong, here's how we're improving in the future" would go a long way.

Good luck with that one. I've been saying that for over a year, but Brammo thinks they don't owe any one any apologies. Sorry, they actually apologize a lot without explaining anything. One of the worst communication I've ever seen. Always promising and not delivering. It's the number one reason people get fired in any decent company. You either don't promise or you deliver. After all, nobody said Brammo needed to deliver anything at any time; Brammo did. It seems like the company is both Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in the way they work. Very good in almost everything, but amonster when it comes to being honest with their potential clients.

Maybe I'll have saved up more $$ by the time Brammo is ready to sell standard non-R Empulses in Colorado.  But for now, if Brammo calls me and asks about putting down a deposit, my answer will be for them to wait patiently by their phone, and I promise I'll call them right back.....

Welcome to the club! The way things are going, Zero might even come up with the 2014 models before Brammo gets one bike to one individual customer.

Before Brammofan starts saying people here are ill-spirited again, just keep in mind that we are all here to support Brammo. We all want them to succeed. And we have been telling them to stop lying about delivery dates for 2 years. Just tell us the truth and everything is fine. It's the constant lying (yes, if you promise something and then don't do it, you are lying) that makes people get frustrated and go look for some other product. There is a limit for everyone's patience, especially for the ones who have no bikes. If you are still riding your old Enertia, the wait is much easier, but a few people here already sold their bikes and made financial commitments based on Brammo's lies. We are not investors, but we have lost money, time, and other important things because we believed in Brammo.

Again, we all want Brammo to succeed, but it would be nice if Brammo showed a little appreciation for our support by stopping with all the lies. Just give us straight, we can take it. And if we can't, we will appreciate the honesty.

[implovator]

Disclaimer: The following is pure conjecture and opinion. I'm no automotive insider. I'm far from it. So FWIW....

As a consumer, I hate the Empulse experience. When I remove my emotional connection to the product, however, I completely understand. Detroit typically doesn't make promises about deliveries until they're well into production. Automotive manufacturers are very scientific about their process: think "The Toyota Way." Their development processes have been templated and translated to many other industries and not just manufacturing. They do intense market and feasibility studies well before a prototype even hits a car show show. It's not perfect, and Aztecs still happen every decade or so.

Detroit always has many projects in development as well, so they have a prototype that's not testing well, they can easily cancel it and another project already underway slips right into its spot. Brammo and Tesla don't have that luxury. They have to keep everyone on the line: Wall Street, bloggers, politicians, and consumers. Why? They need the buzz to stay afloat long enough to... to change the world. They can't rely on current sales to keep them running. They can't dig deep into R&D and find something to sell this year. They can't rely on Craig and Elon's money.

If they weren't American companies I wouldn't trust them nearly as much. The only reason that I have faith in Brammo, is that that I feel somewhat know them personally. It would behoove them to try to communicate more openly with their customers to ensure that their genuineness comes through. Alas, their hands are somewhat tied. They've got Wall Street, bloggers, politicians, and investors all listening now too. I'm sure Adrian would love to make things a lot more transparent, but they just can't. Hell, let's just consider ourselves lucky that they're not a publicly traded company yet. Meeting analysts expectations is the single biggest waste of time, energy, capital, and talent for so many companies.

[Deadly Silent Ninja]

If they weren't American companies I wouldn't trust them nearly as much. The only reason that I have faith in Brammo, is that that I feel somewhat know them personally. It would behoove them to try to communicate more openly with their customers to ensure that their genuineness comes through.

But that's the point: nobody is asking them for trade secrets or some special insider's info. All I said is that they shouldn't be saying that the bike will be in the hands of customers by (insert month and year here) when they can't keep that promise or have no real projection that it will be true. Everything else about Brammo is great! It's just the lying part on delivery dates that sucks.
All they have to do is say, "We expect to have the bikes ready in a few months and we will give you the specific dates of delivery when the bikes are ready and packed for delivery." Everything else they can keep the hype with info on Team ICONN-Brammo, some shots of the manufacturing line, a few reviews by journalists, a few shots of BrammoBrian on his Empulse, etc. There is no reason for the specific lies. It's just one "little" problem, but it poisons the well. Any one who works with PR or customer service knows that one little doubt is all it takes to create a wave of complete lack of trust. Brammo has been very lucky that we have kept this conversation here and have protected the brand on most specialized blogs, forums and magazines, but, as others said above, they need to acknowledge what they have done and come clean with that, so everyone can move on.

[7racer]

still no contact....just venting.

BLAH!

[Vibetrippin]

I don't think you're using the right words for what they've done.

Lie is a pretty strong word. Dictionary definition is ...a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth...
Not fulfilling a promise, or meeting a deadline is a long way from lieing. It's just lousy PR.

Unless you have proof that they knew they wouldn't be able to meet the timeline they released, you can't say they are lieing without committing libel, which is something that I'm sure none of us would like to be guilty of.

[protomech]

Agree, Vibe.

We know two things:

1. Brammo said they would begin production in June. Source: LA Times
2. It's October, and no bikes have been delivered to customers. Source: obvious

You can connect the dots between points #1 and #2 in at least two ways:

1. In pursuit of some mysterious agenda, Brammo has consistently lied to and misled their would-be customers. Their racing program is obviously a priority, but they either do not intend to release a road bike follow-on to the Enertia or cannot do so with the April 2012 specifications and May 2012 price point.
2. Despite the best of intentions, Brammo has run into one or more roadblocks - whether technical, supplier, financial, or otherwise that are delaying the release of the Empulse. They haven't communicated any of this information to the customer, but they are starting to request customer deposits with a nominal delivery window.

Pessimistic or optimistic. You decide.

[Richard230]

I wouldn't be surprised if they ran into supplier problems. Either with quality control or with timely delivery.  That can happen when dealing with the Italian motorcycle component industry, based upon my experience with owning a couple of Italian motorcycles.  You order parts and wait months for delivery.   

[Deadly Silent Ninja]

I don't think you're using the right words for what they've done.

Lie is a pretty strong word. Dictionary definition is ...a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth...
Not fulfilling a promise, or meeting a deadline is a long way from lieing. It's just lousy PR.

Unless you have proof that they knew they wouldn't be able to meet the timeline they released, you can't say they are lieing without committing libel, which is something that I'm sure none of us would like to be guilty of.

You are picking your definitions. I can find many different definitions for "lie," which do not include the "intentionality."
lie - "a statement that deviates from or perverts the truth," "a false statement," "to convey a false impression."

Legally speaking, I don't think Brammo has deliberately deceived us. They just broke promises and took their time to explain why. In my opinion, it's more of the last definition. It's a false impression they are conveying. First, with the "affordable" concept. Then with 3 options of price/power/range/speed. Then, with the summer 2011 date. Then with the beginning of 2012 date. Then with the summer 2012 date. Now with the August/September date. And it keeps going in Europe, here, etc.

It's all about false impression that they had/were going to have this almost miracle device that was at the same time a competitive "real" motorcycle and an "affordable" commuting option. Maybe they do have both, just in different motorcycles: Empulse and Enertia Plus.

It is this constant delivery date delays and lack of forward communication that messes things up. How many people in this forum alone have sold their vehicles believing that their Empulse was almost there? How many of these same people now own a Zero or an ICE?

We all know that Brammo has great bikes and everything else to be successful. It's just that, if you don't know for sure, meaning the bikes aren't ready and packed to be delivery, don't set dates to customers; keep the deadlines in house so you can change them if needed. It's bad planning and not intention to deceive, but it's deceiving nonetheless. It gives people enough of a wrong impression that they took specific steps believing that their bikes would be in their garages a few months ago. Again, nothing that can't be improved by simple honest communication with the customers.