San Fran peeps....

[flar]

Shinyside summed it all up pretty well.

I'll note that I was in for quite a shock on the peg height, but that is *only* because I've grown accustomed to my R1200RT following my F650 - both of which have pretty nearly 90 degree knee positions.  That, coupled with my sedentary lifestyle made it an unfamiliar action to get my legs up, but I was used to it by the 3rd stoplight.  If you are more familiar with a japanese sporty standard then it should be just what you are used to.

In terms of low speed stability, I was able to keep my feet on the pegs to well under a walking pace at the lights with no wobble at all (compared to my RT which, after a few hundred miles experience, I find to be very good at low speeds, but still needs a few adjustments as I get down to walking pace).

I lagged a bit on the twisty bits up to Twin Peaks primarily because the road surface is fairly rough there and I weigh over 50% more than the standard rider that they've been testing with.  The suspension may be very adjustable, but we didn't adjust it before we took off.  When we went over ripples I didn't feel I could trust the traction at all and I was definitely getting shaken, not stirred.  Don at the shop said that it would likely require new springs to really perform well for someone of my size.  (Does this bike make me look fat?

The primary issue I had with low speeds was not throttle control but rather regen control.  I didn't find the regen in 1st gear to be "too much" per se, but it was very touchy and kicks in very suddenly when the throttle gets to home position.  The throttle was also very light so I found that sometimes when I was rolling to a stop I would kick in and out of regen just by shifting about and not paying attention to wrist position.  I would love to have a reverse twist position to manually invoke regen (possibly with a very light regen at neutral for familiarity).  Perhaps adjusting the regen throttle position cutoff point to allow some wiggle room and maybe having slightly more spring force at the home position may make it less touchy.  I did try second gear for a bit, but didn't really evaluate the regen in that gear.  I figured I'd stay in 1st for efficiency (since it's good to 60MPH and not likely to hit the knee of the efficiency curve in city riding).

[EmpulseRider]

Very nice reviews fellas... I find real world, regular guy reviews the most helpful as they tend to give me a much better idea of what to expect. BTW, the white R looks good on you Shinysideup! My wife and I also prefer the white Empulse.

The pictures picture Brammo is posting on facebook of the event look absolutely stunning!

[Virtually Yours]

Great review! My only problem is the orange wires, I just don't like that at all... I hope that when I receive my bike that those wires are black.

[Gavin]

from Brammo's Facebook...

Gavin

[Gavin]

I can understand Brammo going with the orange cables if they are needed in Europe...might as well do the US model that way too...simplifies the production process...

At the same time, if it is not a regulation here, if I get a Empulse I might wrap the orange wires in that Black reflective tape...would look better in the daytime and would add side visibility at night.

Gavin

[Shinysideup]

... I might wrap the orange wires in that Black reflective tape...would look better in the daytime and would add side visibility at night.

Or you could just slip on some Radio Shack wire loom tubing. I did that to corral the small wires on an electric bike I made, and the corrugated tubing looks good, to my eyes.

Comes in several diameters. 3/4" size is RS Catalog #: 278-1654

Here's a shot of some 1/2"  coming to a driving lamp:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10852133@N02/1527660080/#sizes/o/in/set-72157601652381698/

[protomech]

I can understand Brammo going with the orange cables if they are needed in Europe...might as well do the US model that way too...simplifies the production process...

See bullet 23 here. This is more of a guidelines, but it may have been adopted later. SAE J1127 and J1128 specify the orange coding for the higher voltage cables - my 2000 Honda Insight uses orange sheathing for the motor cables.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/avta/pdfs/hev/hev_techspecs_final.pdf

[Shinysideup]

I would love to have a reverse twist position to manually invoke regen (possibly with a very light regen at neutral for familiarity).

I very much like this idea. I believe the Vectrix scooter has this feature and from when I first heard about it a couple of years ago, it made good sense. If we can modulate the throttle for "Go" why not for "Stop"?

Another variation: instead of coming back to neutral and rolling on more regen, have the computer invoke zero regen when barely rolling back on the throttle, and then exponentially increasing regen as you roll back to neutral throttle position. That way, you could choose to coast freewheel when that would make sense, and then capture electrons when you knew you needed to decelerate.

[Shinysideup]

See bullet 23 here.

Yep, found it in section 7.1 on page 21 from the pdf you link to.

[kingcharles]

I very much like this idea. I believe the Vectrix scooter has this feature and from when I first heard about it a couple of years ago, it made good sense. If we can modulate the throttle for "Go" why not for "Stop"?

The Vectrix throttle is indeed superior. I own one so maybe I am biased. It also allows a low speed reverse when you roll back after you come to a full stop which I use often as it makes parking the bike in my backyard easy.
Unfortunately they patented the throttle so we wont see it on other bikes I am afraid. Maybe when the patent expires it will appear on more bikes...

[flar]

The Vectrix throttle is indeed superior. I own one so maybe I am biased. It also allows a low speed reverse when you roll back after you come to a full stop which I use often as it makes parking the bike in my backyard easy.
Unfortunately they patented the throttle so we wont see it on other bikes I am afraid. Maybe when the patent expires it will appear on more bikes...

I'm curious which parts they patented.  BMW bikes have used a reverse twist to cancel cruise control for years now (which, never having been near a Vectrix, was where I got the idea from).  In terms of physical sensation, it's pretty much the same experience.  Vectrix might patent a different mechanism for achieving the goal, but patenting the concept of "braking forces when reverse twisting a throttle" would have prior art.

And, while I would like to see a reverse function, I don't think I'd want it to happen simply because I pushed the throttle the wrong way.

[Richard230]

I read a report a few years ago that said the BMW had licensed the Vectrix power train when they developed their C-1 EV prototype scooter.  I wonder if they still have that license or have let it expire as they continue to work on their current maxi (and not roofed) electric scooter?

I agree that the Vectrix throttle system is a superior way to deal with regen and its ability to act as a reverse is really handy when parking on a hill.   

[Shinysideup]

I agree that the Vectrix throttle system is a superior way to deal with regen and its ability to act as a reverse is really handy when parking on a hill.   

James from Brammo yesterday said that being in San Francisco made him rethink the need for a parking brake, like my scooter has. I find it really handy on steep hills and for temporarily holding the bike when I need both hands for a task while parked on a hill.

I've been thinking of some solution to grab and clamp the front brake lever... maybe a ring made out of PVC pipe just the right diameter. Stowing it would probably require a tank bag, however. Or a cross-section from a bicycle inner tube to act as a strong rubber band... or....

[Richard230]

What I use is a Velcro-type strap that I bought at the hardware store. They come in a roll and can be cut to any length. The straps are used to tie plants to supporting sticks when planting a new tree of bush. I carry it in my pocket and another one in my seat pack and use it to hold the front brake closed. That solution is cheap, light and fully adjustable.  My Zero will roll down a steep hill if not constrained. The motor provides some drag and the side stand does dig into the pavement, but the extra security of a locked front brake is well worth the peace of mind as you walk away from your bike.

Anyone care to comment about what it is like to have a clutch on an electric motorcycle?  You would think that using a clutch would not be needed for starting. Just put it in gear and take off with the throttle.  Shifting between gears could be accomplished by employing a "quick shifter" if there is a need for accommodating the change in motor speed between gears. Or some other method of disengaging the clutch (like the mechanical system the1950's Jawa motorcycles used) when the shift is made could be employed.  Also, is there much of a "flywheel" effect from the motor and drive-line when reving up with the clutch pulled in?  When Scuderia gets a demonstrator in, I will have to go for a test ride, as much as I hate to ride anywhere in SF.

[Shinysideup]

Anyone care to comment about what it is like to have a clutch on an electric motorcycle?  You would think that using a clutch would not be needed for starting. Just put it in gear and take off with the throttle.  Shifting between gears could be accomplished by employing a "quick shifter" if there is a need for accommodating the change in motor speed between gears. Or some other method of disengaging the clutch (like the mechanical system the1950's Jawa motorcycles used) when the shift is made could be employed.  Also, is there much of a "flywheel" effect from the motor and drive-line when reving up with the clutch pulled in?  When Scuderia gets a demonstrator in, I will have to go for a test ride, as much as I hate to ride anywhere in SF.

Yep, don't need the clutch at all when stopping or starting. Didn't try speed-shifting the demo. There is NO flywheel effect, just a cool high-pitched whine while revving in neutral or with the clutch lever pulled in. Not good for anything other than letting bystanders "hear the motor." I didn't detect any concern about matching motor speed when downshifting, which I didn't do much of. Everything just seemed to work smoothly enough.

I ride in SF 5 days a week, on the job, all day long, and I gotta agree with your assessment.

Velcro works for me. Thanks for the tip.