My Empulse Test Ride Experience

[werm_works]

I rode it yesterday at Bartel's HD and it was fun except for that really bad chain noise that may sound like a slack but its more like a play on the tranny as if there is a significant amout of clearance between gears that it makes a clunking noise everytime you accelerate and deccelerate, I'm sure they would work on it, I just home they do before distribution instead of doing updates on the fly like on the Enertia's

Cool thing is there is no such thing as stalling, so no need to feather the clutch whatsoever or holding it down when at stop, and the funny thing too is the nuetral is found between 2nd and 3rd, I was tild the empulse really didnt need a nuetral but per DOT requirements they just had to throw a Nuetral in there and I assume they chose between 2nd and 3rd to make the 2nd gear stronger in the sense of wearing out the 2nd gear common in regular bikes were the dogs or gear wears out that it causes the 2nd to pop out and go to nuetral...  Well thats just t theory...


Another not so cool for me is the use of the same instrument cluster as the enertia where if you live in CA with temps that hits 3 digits, the LCD tends to bake and just turn black, where you cant see a thing until it cools down, I recall Mr. CEO saying that they got a lot of feedback from enertia owners about what it lacks and other issues but I never recall anybody getting at me for my opinion and experiences specially coming from an enertia owner that pretty much had all parts replaced except the battery which worries my about parts prices down the line for a 17k bike but on a good note Brammo has been very good to me in terms of fixing my bike, even if my warranty expired a few months ago they still replaced my worn out parts

Back to the empulse.... I dont think 6 speed was necessary since I never had a need to go 6th.... On the streets staying at 1st is good enough to take you 60mph.... Top spees I took the Empulse was 96mph which most likely 91mph actual speed.

2 more lame things in my opinion is the charger not being built in or atleast had a slot somewhere to transport it with you, but its not that bulky so just bring a back pack with you, the l2 charger is the same size its just that its a 240v single phase which i hope they would give out as an option if you want l1 or l2 charger... I was told that the l2 charger would be sold for $500 without the plug, you would need to have an elextrician make a plug for you which I dlnt think is necessary since its just a simple single phase then the other lame thing which I hope they would reconsider is when your charging the bike, the park light is on and there is no way to turn it off, I was already not happy with my Enertia's cluster lights all on when charging, what more having a small parknlight im front and the tailight on when charging

Im sorry I just remembered one more thing... Its no biggie but I just find it
Odd that the high beam has 2 idiot lights, one on the cluster and one on the hand control 0.o


.... Hehehe 1 more again... Swing arm spool mount is not straight, it will cause tje spool to be a bit angled

Overall I like it a lot

T

Overall I still love the Empulse

[CAT in HAWAII]

I rode it yesterday at Bartel's HD and it was fun except for that really bad chain noise that may sound like a slack but its more like a play on the tranny as if there is a significant amout of clearance between gears that it makes a clunking noise everytime you accelerate and deccelerate, I'm sure they would work on it, I just home they do before distribution instead of doing updates on the fly like on the Enertia's

Cool thing is there is no such thing as stalling, so no need to feather the clutch whatsoever or holding it down when at stop, and the funny thing too is the nuetral is found between 2nd and 3rd, I was tild the empulse really didnt need a nuetral but per DOT requirements they just had to throw a Nuetral in there and I assume they chose between 2nd and 3rd to make the 2nd gear stronger in the sense of wearing out the 2nd gear common in regular bikes were the dogs or gear wears out that it causes the 2nd to pop out and go to nuetral...  Well thats just t theory...


Another not so cool for me is the use of the same instrument cluster as the enertia where if you live in CA with temps that hits 3 digits, the LCD tends to bake and just turn black, where you cant see a thing until it cools down, I recall Mr. CEO saying that they got a lot of feedback from enertia owners about what it lacks and other issues but I never recall anybody getting at me for my opinion and experiences specially coming from an enertia owner that pretty much had all parts replaced except the battery which worries my about parts prices down the line for a 17k bike but on a good note Brammo has been very good to me in terms of fixing my bike, even if my warranty expired a few months ago they still replaced my worn out parts

Back to the empulse.... I dont think 6 speed was necessary since I never had a need to go 6th.... On the streets staying at 1st is good enough to take you 60mph.... Top spees I took the Empulse was 96mph which most likely 91mph actual speed.

2 more lame things in my opinion is the charger not being built in or atleast had a slot somewhere to transport it with you, but its not that bulky so just bring a back pack with you, the l2 charger is the same size its just that its a 240v single phase which i hope they would give out as an option if you want l1 or l2 charger... I was told that the l2 charger would be sold for $500 without the plug, you would need to have an elextrician make a plug for you which I dlnt think is necessary since its just a simple single phase then the other lame thing which I hope they would reconsider is when your charging the bike, the park light is on and there is no way to turn it off, I was already not happy with my Enertia's cluster lights all on when charging, what more having a small parknlight im front and the tailight on when charging

Im sorry I just remembered one more thing... Its no biggie but I just find it
Odd that the high beam has 2 idiot lights, one on the cluster and one on the hand control 0.o


.... Hehehe 1 more again... Swing arm spool mount is not straight, it will cause tje spool to be a bit angled

Overall I like it a lot

T

Overall I still love the Empulse

Just wondering, does it have a gear indicator? Or just a green light when you get to neutral?
Does the engine "REV" when you are in neutral?

[BrammoBrian]

I'm glad you got to test ride the bike and thanks for the feedback.  To address a few of your concerns:

1. All motorcycle gearboxes have backlash in the transmission and drivetrain.  I promise you.  Go sit on a streetbike, put it in gear and rock it back and forth - Ta-Da! Backlash.  In the Empulse, the feeling is a bit more pronounced due to the fact there's no engine vibration acting as "white noise", dulling your ability to isolate it from everything else.  Being more precise with your throttle inputs will reduce this issue AND make you a smoother rider overall.

2. All LCD panels will eventually go black if left in direct sunlight.  As a small manufacturer, Brammo simply did not have the resources required to develop and tool up an all new dash for the Empulse.  That said, we did significantly revise the package versus the Enertia, requiring new software to be written, tested, and validated.  I personally think that the dash is quite nice... doing well as what dashes should do - provide key information to the rider.  I contrast this with some of the more "high-tech" full LCD panels on other bikes (Ducati Monster included), which do a pretty poor job IMHO.

3. Although the torque and power characteristics of the motor allow for more flexible gear selection (a definite plus), there is still a "correct" gear to be in for peak power and efficiency.  Although the bike may "pull" well in any gear, you're giving up battery energy and heating the motor uneccessarily if you don't  manage your gear selection.  The bike has a top speed of well over 100mph - sixth gear will get you there. That's why you need it.  

4. We don't falsify the speedometer display.  Your indicated speed will not be off by more than a few mph.

5. The 3kW charger IS on-board.  The charge cord is not.  The Level 1 charge cord is meant to be left in your garage, which is why there's no spot for it on the bike.  If you go to a public charging station, this part (i.e. the equivalent of the pump nozzle), is part of the charger.  Level 2 cannot be wired into a plug by the definition of the standard, and to do so would violate safety standards.  Level 2 is designed to be hard wired into 240Vac single-phase.  This is the same way it works on a Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Mitsubishi iMiev, BMW Active-e, etc...

6. Brammo appreciates you as a customer.  I have followed your postings and feedback here and through our service organization.  Even though you don't hear from us directly, don't think we don't hear you.  The Empulse is the bike it is because of all of the feedback from our Enertia customers.  The Enertia was a breakthrough product at the time, but we knew it wasn't going to be good enough to just scale its technology.  We had to make another breakthrough.  We hope this is it...  

I'm glad you still rate your experience as positive and look forward to you hopefully becoming an Empulse owner as well!  

[Gavin]

Nice response...I probably speak for more than just myself here, but thanks for spending more time here lately...we appreciate it and it really helps us (at least me) with understanding the bikes and the tech.

People like Proto might not need it, but I sure do. Proto is smrt....

Gavin

[flar]

5. The 3kW charger IS on-board.  The charge cord is not.  The Level 1 charge cord is meant to be left in your garage, which is why there's no spot for it on the bike.  If you go to a public charging station, this part (i.e. the equivalent of the pump nozzle), is part of the charger.  Level 2 cannot be wired into a plug by the definition of the standard, and to do so would violate safety standards.  Level 2 is designed to be hard wired into 240Vac single-phase.  This is the same way it works on a Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Mitsubishi iMiev, BMW Active-e, etc...

Thanks for your responses Brian!  I realized that the charger itself was on board, but whether or not T knew that, I think he was having the same reaction that I had.  I very much appreciate that I could just plug the Empulse into any J1772 plug I can find, but they aren't necessarily everywhere I want to go.  It is far more likely that I'll have to plug into a regular 110 socket somewhere (even at work where they provide 2 J1772 charging stations free, but the first 2 of 7 Leafs that show up in the morning already claim those and the rest use a complicated octopus of extension cords to plug in).  The thing you would need to carry around to plug into a regular socket is far too bulky to just leave on the bike somewhere so you will need to bring a backpack everywhere and fill a good chunk of its space just to be able to have an emergency charging solution with you.

Contrast that to the Zeros that have on-bike carriers for their regular every-day relatively small NEMA cords and the fact that if you forgot one you could probably steal one off of a neighbor/friend's computer or unused TV in a pinch.

J1772 is a great option to have, but the fact that it is your only interface to charge the bike at all is actually reducing convenience a bit.  I'd love to have a NEMA-style socket in addition to the J1772 and a nice pocket on the bike to stash a small 6 or 8 foot NEMA cord.

[CAT in HAWAII]

I'm glad you got to test ride the bike and thanks for the feedback.  To address a few of your concerns:


2. All LCD panels will eventually go black if left in direct sunlight.  As a small manufacturer, Brammo simply did not have the resources required to develop and tool up an all new dash for the Empulse.  That said, we did significantly revise the package versus the Enertia, requiring new software to be written, tested, and validated.  I personally think that the dash is quite nice... doing well as what dashes should do - provide key information to the rider.  I contrast this with some of the more "high-tech" full LCD panels on other bikes (Ducati Monster included), which do a pretty poor job  to you hopeful

Ok, in Hawaii, we gots LOTS of sunlight!! All day, every day!
Is my LCD panel going to go black?
I don't have shaded parking at work,,, do I have to cover up my LCD panel with a rag or something every time I park it???
Would that even be included in the warranty repairs, if you EXPEXT it to go black???

I've only heard of good things of the repairs that you make to customers bikes, and I have the greatest faith that it will continue,,,

[Brammo Rider Wannabe]

This video was linked on brammo's twitter page. It shows what appears to be a gear indicator on the right side of the digital display.


A Fall Ride on a Brammo Empulse R with my wife on back.

[BrammoBrian]

It is far more likely that I'll have to plug into a regular 110 socket somewhere (even at work where they provide 2 J1772 charging stations free, but the first 2 of 7 Leafs that show up in the morning already claim those and the rest use a complicated octopus of extension cords to plug in).  The thing you would need to carry around to plug into a regular socket is far too bulky to just leave on the bike somewhere so you will need to bring a backpack everywhere and fill a good chunk of its space just to be able to have an emergency charging solution with you.

Contrast that to the Zeros that have on-bike carriers for their regular every-day relatively small NEMA cords and the fact that if you forgot one you could probably steal one off of a neighbor/friend's computer or unused TV in a pinch.

J1772 is a great option to have, but the fact that it is your only interface to charge the bike at all is actually reducing convenience a bit.  I'd love to have a NEMA-style socket in addition to the J1772 and a nice pocket on the bike to stash a small 6 or 8 foot NEMA cord.

I understand that the charging infrastructure is still being developed. However - I stand firmly behind our decision to use ONLY a J1772 standard charging interface.  A NEMA-style cord is not appropriate for safely charging an electric vehicle.  This style cord is designed for indoor and outdoor appliances, and it's use on a newly designed EV is borderline negligent in my opinion.  The example you provide is one of the problems - most computer cables are not rated at the current that an EV will charge at, thus creating a hazardous condition while charging the vehicle.  The use of extension cords for the same purpose are also outside of UL standards.  The Empulse is a REAL electric vehicle, so it has received a REAL electric vehicle charge port and equipment approved and rated for that task.

At the moment, the Level 1 charging cordsets tend to be a bit large and bulky, owing to their origin with electric cars rather than motorcycles.  I do think these cordsets will become much smaller and cheaper with time.  As they fit a standard, there are multiple vendors competing, and all are compatible.  I am charging an Empulse as I type this with the charge cord set I have in my garage for my Chevy Volt.  Works great.

We will be releasing our Givi bag option for the Empulse shortly, which will make carrying the L1 cordset all the easier without giving up space in your backpack.

[BrammoBrian]

This video was linked on brammo's twitter page. It shows what appears to be a gear indicator on the right side of the digital display.

Yes - that's the gear position indicator.  This looks like a fun ride...

[Gavin]

Most of the riding in 2nd gear....74 mph in 3rd. Nice.

I did see an 82 in 4th...I bet that could go higher, but that road isn't a 90 mph plus road

All I could think was...wife on the back? If I was driving like that with Deanna on the back...well my Icon helmet would have a huge hole in the back in the size and shape of her fist

I am allowed to ride the twisties as fast as I want...when I'm alone. If she is riding with me I have to lean as little as possible...strangely I still love riding with her....

Gavin

[flar]

I understand that the charging infrastructure is still being developed. However - I stand firmly behind our decision to use ONLY a J1772 standard charging interface.  A NEMA-style cord is not appropriate for safely charging an electric vehicle.  This style cord is designed for indoor and outdoor appliances, and it's use on a newly designed EV is borderline negligent in my opinion.  The example you provide is one of the problems - most computer cables are not rated at the current that an EV will charge at, thus creating a hazardous condition while charging the vehicle.  The use of extension cords for the same purpose are also outside of UL standards.  The Empulse is a REAL electric vehicle, so it has received a REAL electric vehicle charge port and equipment approved and rated for that task.

There are many standards under NEMA and most computer cords are good for well over a kw.  Even if it was limited to a current below that, it would be much more useful in an emergency than finding a place to store the current J1772 adapter or having to hunt around for an installed charging station.  Also, your comment about extension cords applies equally well to anything that plugs into a 110 outlet so your existing Empulse charging cable supplied with every Empulse already trips that concern.

Definitely for L2 charging you need a better system and connector, and even to max out what an unencumbered 110 household outlet might be able to supply may need better than the average extension or appliance cord provides, but a simpler cord for emergency situations does not have to charge at a high enough wattage to pose a safety hazard.  Even the Leaf and Tesla can plug into a standard 110 outlet - it's all in how much you draw, not how big and "marketing hyperbolized in order to sound bigger and badder than your competition" your vehicle's battery is.

I think an L2-capable J1772 charging port is an excellent thing to have.  I also think that the existing J1772 cable is probably a good solution if you are going to run that adapter at the limits of what an isolated home circuit can provide (though it should probably provide a way to limit the current further for situations where the circuits available in the garage area are weaker or are shared).  But, my opinion stands that the present charging options which do not include a simpler cable for emergency lower-wattage charges represent an inconvenience in so many situations, even as the charging network builds out over the next few years.

Plotting out my recreational rides through the mountains around here, there is no "interesting" route that will either result in a round trip on a single charge or making it all the way to the next civilized area that has a J1772 plug available, requiring me to wear a backpack or install side bags just to take what should be a free and easy ride through the mountains.  Not everyone has the time or marketing pull to lobby their local mountain eatery to install a J1772 charger.  If I was just concerned about city riding or commuting, then J1772 is an easier find.  But, did you really go to all this trouble to create a "REAL" bike that is limited to commuting duties only because it doesn't provide a charger that is convenient for back-road recharging?

Granted, this isn't the end of the world, but I find your dismissal of the issue and the substitution of "REAL" marketing terms in an attempt to distract to be a bit dismissive.  I, sir, am a REAL motorcycle rider who is looking for a REAL conversation...

[FreepZ]

I would agree that having a simple 110v plug on the bike would certainly be very convenient. However, EVs should really be using a J1772 (or other EV specific) charging port because those connectors are a lot safer. E.g. You can use them in the pouring rain without being electrocuted. I wouldn't try that with my 110v wall socket. (You also cannot ride away while you're plugged in, although that's not really an issue with the Empulse given that the socket is right in front of you.)

It's just too bad that those sockets are so bulky. Perhaps when Tesla rules the world, we'll all be using the Tesla plug, which is smaller than that J1772.

And even without a lobby to push it, those L2 chargers will be showing up more and more. Especially when the prices get down to a few hundred dollars.* Heck, you might be able to buy one for your local favorite mountainside stop in exchange for free fill ups for life. You get to fill up and they get a free charger that gets them some green credits and encourages EVs to stop by, and pollution conscience folks can travel up to the mountain for some guilt free fresh air. Everybody wins!


* I wonder if a business is allowed to install a home L2 charger (like the Leviton EVB22) and let customers use it.

[werm_works]

Good stuff brian but with the backlash, Im not so sold with the explanation bit I wont argue with you

Im still getting the empulse sinse I know I can adapt and find its sweet spot.

In regards to chargers, will the asian market still be a l1 or wouldnit bump upntonanmedian between l1 amd l2 since they are already running 220-240?


I was going to show you guys my make shift cluster cover I made and left at work when charging but this morning my Enertia feels a bit down




I know switching up clusters would be an expensive switch for Brammo since its already conveniently set up as an interface as well, I know VDO reps visited you guys a few moths ago because they visited us a week after you guys.

[EmpulseRider]

I can vouch for the backlash point Brian made. I have noticed it in every bike that I have owned. Honda CBR F4i, Ducati 749, and Suzuki GSXR750 all had very noticeable backlash, I figured it was normal and just adjusted my throttle application to minimize it.

As far as charging plug inconvenience goes, I guess this doesnt apply to me as I only plan on charging at home 90% of the time, and perhaps at my parents house the other 10% (they are about 40 highway miles away). But I honestly dont see carrying that J1772 as that big of a deal. Even the Volt J1772 plug I have will fit in my backpack just fine (its plenty long too) and Im betting the Empulse one will be shorter and probably even more compact.

I guess we will see when I get my Empulse if these actually become real issues. Trust me, I will give my honest assessment.



Thats the J1772 charger for my Volt, it easily fits in that smallish backpack. With a laptop crammed in there along with the charger, its a bit tight, but it all still fits. The cord is 22' long.

[BrammoBrian]

Good stuff brian but with the backlash, Im not so sold with the explanation bit I wont argue with you

Im still getting the empulse sinse I know I can adapt and find its sweet spot.

In regards to chargers, will the asian market still be a l1 or wouldnit bump upntonanmedian between l1 amd l2 since they are already running 220-240?

I know switching up clusters would be an expensive switch for Brammo since its already conveniently set up as an interface as well, I know VDO reps visited you guys a few moths ago because they visited us a week after you guys.

I'm just here to provide some technical insight that I hope is useful.  You're always welcome to disagree!

You are correct on the cordset for Europe, and I would assume the same would apply to Asia if they run more similar household voltages to Europe.  Basically, you get close to Level 2 charging at home with your Level 1 cordset. 

I'm not aware of any VDO reps visiting us, but I'm not always involved in every meeting.  We are meeting with instrument cluster suppliers for future programs, but most of those meetings will take place when our engineering representatives are in Milan at the annual EICMA motorcycle show.

I'm sorry that you've had problems with your Enertia, but glad that our commitment to fixing it has kept you interested as a customer for the Empulse.  I hope your experience with your Empulse makes those problems a distant memory.