Author Topic: Parker motor pic  (Read 1337 times)

Brammofan

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Parker motor pic
« on: December 07, 2012, 10:13:06 AM »
Brammo posted this on their (*gack) Instagram page with the caption, "Coming to an Empulse near you."

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protomech

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 11:04:33 AM »
MMMmmmmMMmmmm Hmmmm Ph.

 :)
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Brammofan

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 11:05:58 AM »
MMMmmmmMMmmmm Hmmmm Ph.

 :)
LOL. I almost titled the post, Parker Motor Porn.
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protomech

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 04:51:14 PM »
The closest the Empulse RR has come to me is Daytona International Speedway.

Definitely seems like a single speed bike, with the big reduction gearing going to the output shaft.
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Gavin

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 05:12:43 PM »




BrammoBrian

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 08:52:16 PM »
This was an improperly labeled photo on instagram.  That's the early 2012 Parker race motor for the Empulse RR.  This motor raced (ok... fine... crashed) at Infineon and then won in Portland.  We moved to the next generation motor by the Laguna round. 

The Empulse R uses a "mini" version of the Parker GVM race motor.  The complete design was done specifically for the Empulse with the goal of moving our racing technology (excellent continuous and specific power) to the production bike.

The current performance of the Empulse R production Parker motor is 40kW / 82Nm (60.5 ft-lbs).  Please keep in mind that motor output shaft torque means very little and rear wheel torque means everything... 

protomech

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 09:52:26 PM »
Sounds like max motor RPM is lower? That SMRE motor must have been a screamer, if this motor maxes at 8000 RPM ..

Thanks for the update. Now we can put the SMRE / Parker discussions to bed : )
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BrammoBrian

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 11:05:58 PM »
Sounds like max motor RPM is lower? That SMRE motor must have been a screamer, if this motor maxes at 8000 RPM ..

Thanks for the update. Now we can put the SMRE / Parker discussions to bed : )

Not quite yet... I know how you like to dig and calculate, so let me provide the real "back story" so as to prevent any future misinformation (albeit well-intentioned). 

The Empulse R (Brammo designed, Parker manufactured in New Ulm, MN) motor is an internal permanent magnet motor (IPM) and part of the "GVM" family of magnetics design for traction/vehicle applications (like the race bike motor).  It makes peak power around 4500 rpm, but has good "continuous power" out to 8000 rpm.  This gives it a very broad and useable power band for use on the road - leading to comments about being able to use the bike at a wide range of speeds in a single gear without shifting. ::)  However, just because you CAN run it to 8k rpm, doesn't mean you should if you want to maximize efficiency and power.  5-6k rpm on this motor is a pretty good range to operate at to maximize efficiency. 

SMRE does not manufacture electric motors, so there is no such thing as an SMRE motor.  There have always been motor partners involved in the development of the IET.  The "other" motor we use has the same peak power, just at a different rpm and with different power curve past peak power.  I wouldn't call it a "screamer" - just a motor with slightly different operating characteristics.  Both solutions are great motors and a great fit for the Empulse.  The Parker has the edge in peak torque and continuous power rating owing to a very good cooling design.  This has made it the motor of choice for the higher priced, higher spec Empulse R. 

Regarding the question about sprockets, we now run a 38T on the rear of the Empulse R.  All of the bikes used by the press for their review and tested at dealers were built with an earlier revision of the motor, and slightly different rear gearing.  The customer bikes have the benefit of about +4hp on the top end, and taller rear gearing for substantially better off-the-line performance. Just another example of Brammo overdelivering (better late than never)... ;)

EmpulseRider

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 11:29:55 PM »
So we can assume (you know that's what we do here) that there will indeed be a different motor for the Empulse R and the regular Empulse model. 4 more hp, or ~8% increase in power, not to mention even faster performance off the line, very nice!

protomech

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 01:21:18 AM »
Lesson learned: if you baselessly speculate for long enough, BrammoBrian will step in and give you all the really juicy information : P

EmpulseBuyer, the power increase on the top end may be well below peak power for both bikes.. so it could be something like 36 hp vs 40 hp, or a 10+% bump.

I'd say the Empulse R bikes just got a bit more attractive vs a base Empulse ..
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Shinysideup

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 01:42:10 AM »
EmpulseBuyer, the power increase on the top end may be well below peak power for both bikes.. so it could be something like 36 hp vs 40 hp, or a 10+% bump.

I'd say the Empulse R bikes just got a bit more attractive vs a base Empulse ..

And it might be good marketing to let the public in on these stats: press release to magazines, FB page announcement, memo to dealers, separate spec sheets on the Brammo Empulse page, or... we could keep it under wraps and hope viral forum gossip does the job!

Hey, all I'm sayin; is: If you got it, flaunt it!

FreepZ

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 08:37:55 AM »
So we can assume (you know that's what we do here) that there will indeed be a different motor for the Empulse R and the regular Empulse model. 4 more hp, or ~8% increase in power, not to mention even faster performance off the line, very nice!

I don't think that the Empulse R will have a different motor (and thus different power) than the Empulse. When Brian said "This has made it the motor of choice for the higher priced, higher spec Empulse R." I think that he means compared to other electric bikes, rather than compared to the Empulse.

The motor casing for the two versions (Parker vs the stock SMRE) are different, and it would be a lot simpler (and cheaper) to have a single design rather than to have two.
Richard #935 #595 #44

BrammoBrian

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 10:01:08 AM »
Lesson learned: if you baselessly speculate for long enough, BrammoBrian will step in and give you all the really juicy information : P

EmpulseBuyer, the power increase on the top end may be well below peak power for both bikes.. so it could be something like 36 hp vs 40 hp, or a 10+% bump.

I'd say the Empulse R bikes just got a bit more attractive vs a base Empulse ..

Ha! I usually resist the temptation to do this as I often get myself into trouble with releasing information before our sales/marketing group is ready.  This is the challenge... Marketing needs to deliver clear, definitive information to dealers and customers that has a very small window of change. I live in a world where things change on a daily, if not hourly, basis as we develop and improve products and address challenges.  For example, it is far easier for Marketing to choose not to state the very detailed information on our motor than keep up with all the "noise" in development as long as they know that the performance of the bike is equal to or better than what we promised our customer. I don't make this easy on them as I run our engineering group under the principles of Flexible Product Development, which allows for concurrent, parallel development projects and VERY late decisions compared to traditional product development processes.  IMHO... this is how we get the best products to market, albeit a little late from time to time.   
 
Getting back to the motor... The top end power increase is truly top end power, which is what allows us to run gearing more advantageous to rear wheel torque and off-the-line acceleration. 

It's a 40 kW motor, not 40 hp.  40kW = 54hp.

The Empulse TTX that wheelies in the video is a standard Empulse R configuration with lighter racing wheels and a relatively small bump on peak current from the motor controller. Eric Bostrom's wheelie in the photo, however, was acheived on a bone stock Empulse base model!  Dude can ride...   

No comment on the motor for the standard Empulse.  :-X  I would also advise this group to avoid speculating... (ha!) ;)


Vibetrippin

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 12:07:01 PM »
I understand where you're going with asking us not to speculate, unfortunately, that is kinda like asking us not to breathe. It's what we do! At least until you offer us jobs and we have to sign non-disclosure agreements, at that point our lips are sealed.  :D

protomech

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Re: Parker motor pic
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 12:18:11 PM »
Getting back to the motor... The top end power increase is truly top end power, which is what allows us to run gearing more advantageous to rear wheel torque and off-the-line acceleration.  

It's a 40 kW motor, not 40 hp.  40kW = 54hp.

Yes. 40 kW peak.. but I was referencing the top-end power, which at least on the Zero drops off noticeably from peak power. Perhaps this is less of an issue on the Empulse due to liquid-cooling?

Edit: here's a dyno test from the Cycle World review of the 2012 S:


Quote
No comment on the motor for the standard Empulse.  :-X  I would also advise this group to avoid speculating... (ha!) ;)

Okay. Let's say then that you've nailed the motor for the Empulse R and that the motor for the Empulse is still under consideration during FPD (or has some other riders attached to it preventing discussion).

Stop speculation? Yeah right.. I'm spinning up on speculation for Empulse 2.0 .. and it involves making better use of that size 6 controller..
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 12:29:06 PM by protomech »
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