Author Topic: Empulse Rider Questions  (Read 6580 times)

protomech

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2013, 03:36:05 PM »
Not really a gyro, but an accelerometer. They're pretty inexpensive - probably < $1 component cost in quantity. Sony's PS3 controller has a three-axis accelerometer in it, and the bill of materials on that device is probably < $10 including battery, bluetooth chip, etc.

Woops, got confused here. It wouldn't be a traditional mechanical gyro but a solid state on-board gyro chip. Same principle applies - only think of the Wii Plus controller or the Sony Move controller, which do indeed have solid state gyros.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 07:04:17 PM by protomech »
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flar

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2013, 06:12:19 PM »
Arguing the other side of the coin, though, if you want parity with ICE behaviors then you'd tie the brake lights into anything that caused drag on the wheels (which is all that normal brakes really do).  Standard cars/bikes don't put on their brake lights when they encounter other non-brake related forms of drag, they only show lights when there is a local source of drag.  I guess the reasoning would be that if you are going up a hill and slowing because of that, then the person behind you is experiencing that same deceleration and you're both in the same frame of reference.  But, when your car kicks in its brakes (or regen system), then it is experiencing an additional drag that doesn't naturally extend to the other car.

Depending on how it is implemented, if you try to coast up a very steep hill here in SF, and your brake lights are tied to an absolute measure of deceleration, then your brake lights might come on even if your car is truly coasting.  Someone behind you may think "Ah, they've put on their brakes" and apply theirs only to lose more momentum than they really needed to and then they have to reapply power to get to the top of the hill.  Would that be considered a value added?
Current bikes: 2013 Brammo Empulse R, 2005 BMW R1200RT
Prior bikes: 1988 Honda Hawk GT, 1997 BMW F650
Future bikes: something with 300 mile range and 0-60 faster than a liter sport bike?

Shinysideup

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 12:20:38 PM »
Regarding the use of the 12Vdc accessory port...

The DC-DC converter is rated for 276W continuous, and 336W peak (2 minutes).

The bike's normal operation consumes 217W (with a margin).  This leaves 59W (about 5A) for Auxiliary devices.  The fuse on the line is 10A.  

My take is that we could easily run heated gloves/grips and most likely a heated jacket, but not both at the same time.  Hope that clears things up.  We'll have more detailed info like this in the official release of the manual.  Thanks for your patience!  

Well the proof is in the heating...

I got the 12V up and running and am very happy to report that it has supported a pair of First Gear heated gloves and a Gerbings jacket liner, at the same time, without blowing anything. It's good to be toasty!

I wired in a Centech fuse block and put a 10A fuse in place of the Gerbings 15A one.

I'm also running a pair of 16-LED Hyperlite brake lights. I added a Flash-2-Pass garage door opener, by tapping into the headlight leads.

I plan to add a pair of Hyperlite amber running lights in front, because I've experienced these to allow oncoming drivers to better judge my closing rate. These don't draw much current and my feeling (technical engineering term!) is that I've got the headroom for them.

I should hopefully gain a bit more 12V headroom by replacing the headlight bulb with a 35W HID unit. I'm doing this mainly to gain more light, as my old eyes can easily outrun the OEM bulb on the freeway at night. Not a good feeling. :-\
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 12:23:06 PM by Shinysideup »

skuzzle

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2013, 04:02:16 PM »
Quote
I should hopefully gain a bit more 12V headroom by replacing the headlight bulb with a 35W HID unit. I'm doing this mainly to gain more light, as my old eyes can easily outrun the OEM bulb on the freeway at night. Not a good feeling.

Please post with a review off your headlight bulb upgrade.  I'm interested if the coverage of the single headlight is good enough even with the brighter bulb.  I'm not sure if I can go back to a single light after using my twin light Vstrom.  At this time of year it's dark coming and going to work.

BrammoBrian

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 04:23:23 PM »

Well the proof is in the heating...

I got the 12V up and running and am very happy to report that it has supported a pair of First Gear heated gloves and a Gerbings jacket liner, at the same time, without blowing anything. It's good to be toasty!

I wired in a Centech fuse block and put a 10A fuse in place of the Gerbings 15A one.

I'm also running a pair of 16-LED Hyperlite brake lights. I added a Flash-2-Pass garage door opener, by tapping into the headlight leads.

I plan to add a pair of Hyperlite amber running lights in front, because I've experienced these to allow oncoming drivers to better judge my closing rate. These don't draw much current and my feeling (technical engineering term!) is that I've got the headroom for them.

I should hopefully gain a bit more 12V headroom by replacing the headlight bulb with a 35W HID unit. I'm doing this mainly to gain more light, as my old eyes can easily outrun the OEM bulb on the freeway at night. Not a good feeling. :-\

Glad to hear that you were able to get what you needed from the extra wattage available.  Thanks for the update! 

Brammofan

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2013, 04:45:21 PM »
Hey Shiny - any chance that you photograph (or video) your projects?  That would be very valuable to future modders here.
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CAT in HAWAII

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2013, 05:55:58 PM »
Great idea! Would appreciate any help on modding, pics , how-to"s ,,

And reflections on easier or better ways to do what was done,,

I'm personally interested in the head light / tail lights upgrade
And also may e putting in a radio/stereo/iPhone music player
And also a better horn,,, (need to look up that thread again)

Thanks in advance!! :D
Cat in Hawaii
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Shinysideup

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 12:58:39 AM »
Great idea! Would appreciate any help on modding, pics , how-to"s ,,

And reflections on easier or better ways to do what was done,,

I'm personally interested in the head light / tail lights upgrade
And also may e putting in a radio/stereo/iPhone music player
And also a better horn,,, (need to look up that thread again)

Thanks in advance!! :D
Cat in Hawaii

I promise some pics when I can get to it. Planning on this weekend. I'll put names, websites, prices with each photo. Unless it really warms up, and then I'll go riding more! ;)

I started the HID bulb replacement tonight and it was horrid. I bought the unit from Hollywood Electrics because they said it had worked well in the Zero which uses the same Triom headlight shell.

First, the directions are a total Chinese corruption of Engrish and jibberish. Useless.
Second, the "H4" plastic assembly isn't to international specs and I had to modify it with my Dremel tool to get it to even fit into the shell receptacle.
Third, the shells locking ring won't work with the thicker plastic "H4" housing and I had to Dremel it down to make it sort of work and now it's possibly ruined for use with regular H4 halogen bulbs.

I would have been much better off, at half the price, buying something off eBay. I'll call Hollywood Electrics tomorrow and advise them of my experience.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 01:18:50 AM by Shinysideup »

Shinysideup

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 01:16:59 AM »
Anybody knows that happens when you blow by the redline?

The text  in the Motorcycle magazine article just posted speaks of a 8000 rpm redline, with the photo showing it extending to 10K. I guess that's because it was a pre-production model and mine has a changed motor: My red zone starts at 6K and goes to 8K.

I have found it's really easy, with a missed shift, to blow past the 6K mark and see a single green shift light flash. Heck, in first gear, when going for a traffic light that's still yellow, I have seen all the green lights scream at me: shift shift shift! It happens much faster and with much less auditory feedback than any gas bike I've owned. I'm working on refining my senses and getting used to all this fast torque.

Meanwhile...  what happens if I over rev? I've got a router that is happy running at 20K rpm for hours at a time. Does the Empulse really go into a danger zone at 8K?

Does it electronically protect itself from over-revving? My R1200R would just turn off the ignition at 8K, I'd feel a pause and shift. But if that didn't happen, the trusty boxer engine would likely blow connecting rods through the case, possibly causing hair eyes and teeth to end up all over the highway.

What happens when an electric motor goes faster than specified? Flying apart? Melting down?  I'd really rather not find out the hard way. :(

ttxgpfan

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 01:36:43 AM »
I feel pretty certain the Empulse has a hard limit programed in.  I'd imagine an electric motor's rev limit has more to do with the mass in the motor and field weakening or the controllers ability to keep up, than anything.

flar

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2013, 03:21:30 AM »
@Shiny - is that HID conversion kit using the stock lens?  Performing a conversion without changing the entire assembly, including the lens, is not recommended.  I read this article when I was considering lighting options for my R1200RT:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

Indeed, the BMW dealers don't carry any HID conversion kits - essentially agreeing with the article that it would be a very expensive upgrade to do it right.  Given the already good lighting on the BMW tourer, it isn't generally worth it, but if the single bulb on the Empulse is not producing enough light then I'd be willing to spend money to do a HID conversion right - but only with a properly designed kit targeted for the specific installation with a complete replacement of the assembly and lens.
Current bikes: 2013 Brammo Empulse R, 2005 BMW R1200RT
Prior bikes: 1988 Honda Hawk GT, 1997 BMW F650
Future bikes: something with 300 mile range and 0-60 faster than a liter sport bike?

BrammoBrian

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2013, 09:40:46 AM »
I feel pretty certain the Empulse has a hard limit programed in.  I'd imagine an electric motor's rev limit has more to do with the mass in the motor and field weakening or the controllers ability to keep up, than anything.

Yes, there is a rpm limit programmed in to the motor controller.  It will simply not allow the motor to spin beyond the programmed rpm.  You should see the shift lights on the dash progressively light up from left to right after you pass about 6,000 rpm. 

The motor's speed limitation is based on a number of factors - 1. the motor controller's ability to keep up with the commutation frequency as the motor spins, which is dependent on pole count of the motor as well. 2. the mechanical limitations of the rotor itself as the forces build as the rotor spins 3. the desire to stay away from very high rpm that introduce some other magnetic effects and losses (i.e heating).

One of our Systems Engineers pointed something out to me recently that I probably have not presented well in the past - 5k is a good target rpm for "Sport" mode, but "Normal" mode moves peak power out closer to 7k rpm, so it is actually beneficial (for performance and range) to ride at higher rpm in normal mode.  The slightly reduced torque will also make gear selection more critical. 

Shinysideup

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2013, 11:27:51 PM »
OK, by overwhelming popular demand (2), I've relented (got offa my ass) and posted pics of my Empusle R mods so far, with some comments:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10852133@N02/sets/72157632567075439/

The images are very large, so if you want to see any detail, just view the original file size.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 03:49:09 PM by Shinysideup »

Shinysideup

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 12:05:32 AM »
You should see the shift lights on the dash progressively light up from left to right after you pass about 6,000 rpm. 

One of our Systems Engineers pointed something out to me recently that I probably have not presented well in the past - 5k is a good target rpm for "Sport" mode, but "Normal" mode moves peak power out closer to 7k rpm, so it is actually beneficial (for performance and range) to ride at higher rpm in normal mode.  The slightly reduced torque will also make gear selection more critical. 

Thanks for all the great technical information, Brian. I soak it up!

So, to make sure I understand this correctly, to maximize range in "Normal" mode (once I'm through the break-in period), I should strive to keep the tach needle in the red zone at 7K (red starts at 6K) and ride with a shift light (or two) constantly illuminated.

Gavin

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Re: Empulse Rider Questions
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2013, 12:39:32 AM »
OK, by overwhelming popular demand (2), I've relented (got offa my ass) and posted pics of my Empusle R mods so far, with some comments:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10852133@N02/sets/72157632546062901/

The images are very large, so if you want to see any detail, just view the original file size.

Very very nice.

What is the draw of the standard headlight?

G