Author Topic: Oil Change  (Read 6154 times)

FreepZ

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Oil Change
« on: February 20, 2013, 10:04:48 AM »
I'm only 50 miles away from 600, which is the end of the break in period, so I'll probably be doing an oil change. Unfortunately, the manual for my Empulse is about 75 miles away. Would anybody out there be able to take a picture of the pages of the manual that refer to changing the oil and either post them here, or email them to me? (See my profile for my email address).

Thanks.
Richard #935 #595 #44

FreepZ

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 04:23:16 PM »
I got the manual from the dealer, but now I have a question.

The manual says that the oil that I should use is:
Synthetic 10W-30 API GL-1 Motorcycle oil, (wet clutch approved)

At Autozone, I was able to find 10W-30 API SN/SM/SL, and there is something called GL-5, but that's very thick oil.

I was unable to find anything that read: API GL-1.

Has anybody changed their oil? What did you use?
Richard #935 #595 #44

FreepZ

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2013, 05:01:33 PM »
Another question... The manual as the torque specifications for what seems to be just about every bolt on the bike. What it doesn't have is the torque specifications of the three bolts that need to be undone and redone for an oil change (see manual page 24).

Specifically:
  • Oil fill plug
  • Oil check hole
  • Oil drain plug

Hopefully Revision 3 of the manual will have that information.
Richard #935 #595 #44

protomech

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 05:10:14 PM »
Yep, you definitely don't want GL-5. Edit: or maybe not, see FreepZ's post below

From wiki:
Quote
API GL-1. Oils for light conditions. They consist of base oils without additives. Sometimes they contain small amounts of antioxidizing additives, corrosion inhibitors, depressants and antifoam additives. API GL-1 oils are designed for spiral-bevel, worm gears and manual transmissions without synchronizers in trucks and farming machines.
...
API GL-5. Oils for severe conditions. They contain up to 6.5% effective anti-scuffing additives. The general application of oils in this class are for hypoid gears having significant displacement of axes, generally non limited-slip differentials. They are recommended as universal oils to all other units of mechanical transmission (except synchronized gearboxes specifying GL-4). Some GL-5 oils in this class, which have special approval of vehicle manufacturers, can be used in synchronized manual gearboxes. API GL-5 oils can be used in limited slip differentials only if they correspond to the requirements of specification MIL-L-2105D or ZF TE-ML-05. In this case the designation of class will be another, for example API GL-5+ or API GL-5 LS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil

I can't find anything at autozone or o'reillys that looks appropriate for GL-1. You may have to special order it.

For example:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mct.aspx?zo=515729
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 07:32:29 PM by protomech »
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Richard230

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 05:57:16 PM »
My Aprilia RS50 said to use 10w-40 GL4 oil in its transmission.  I never could find GL4 transmission oil, only GL5.  So my solution was to use a 10w-40 motorcycle transmission oil that I found at a dirt bike shop that catered to two-stroke motorcycles with (obviously) separate transmissions and oiled clutches.  That seemed like a reasonable solution and that type of oil is easy to find.  In any case, the Aprilia's transmission worked well with that oil (I think I used Belray) and the transmission and its wet clutch certainly outlasted the engine.   ;)

I have been reading the back of oil bottles for years and I have never seen an oil rated GL1, 2 or 3.  What I have always heard is that the higher classification numbers meet the specification requirements of all of the lower classification numbers and all you have to do is find the correct weight oil. If this is true, a 10w-40 GL5 rated oil should be OK.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

00049 (AKA SopFu)

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 06:22:24 PM »
I'll be using full synthetic MC oil. As long as it is not labeled "energy efficient" or have any friction modifiers, it should be fine.
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FreepZ

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 06:33:57 PM »
I think that "GL-1" is obsolete.

From this website:
http://www.lubrizol.com/DrivelineAdditives/AutomotiveGearOil/GL5.html

Quote
API Categories GL-1, GL-2, GL-3 and GL-6 were declared inactive by SAE Technical Committee 3 in 1995, even though oils may be marketed with these designations. Similarly, ASTM does not plan to maintain the performance tests associated with these categories, as in a number of cases these tests can no longer be run because parts or test installations are not available.

It seems to me that I should be able to ignore the GL-1 part, just get some good synthetic SAE 10W-30 oil and call it a day. Is there really a difference if the can says "motorcycle" on it?
Richard #935 #595 #44

Richard230

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 08:31:29 PM »
I don't think GL4 or 5 oil needs to be motorcycle-specific.  It just is easier to find the correct weight (10w-30 or 10w-40) GL-rated oil in a motorcycle shop than in an auto accessory store, which will typically have 75w-90, 75w-140, or 80w-90 weight gear oils.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

flar

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 08:53:33 PM »
I'm only 50 miles away from 600, which is the end of the break in period, so I'll probably be doing an oil change. Unfortunately, the manual for my Empulse is about 75 miles away. Would anybody out there be able to take a picture of the pages of the manual that refer to changing the oil and either post them here, or email them to me? (See my profile for my email address).

Thanks.
Quick question - are you doing the oil change now with the manual "75 miles away" because you are worried about driving those 75 miles and doing the oil change late?

Someone more familiar with engine break-in please feel free to correct me, but I wouldn't worry about 25 or 50 miles one way or the other.  The first oil change is to get rid of the debris that happens early on in the life of the transmission so you've likely been riding around for around 600 miles with most of that debris anyway.  It's important to get rid of it, and I'd probably wait to "open her up" in terms of RPMs until after the oil change, but I wouldn't sweat the exact timing like that.  My 600 mile change was done 40 miles early because that was when it was convenient to do (the dealer had to work on something that required draining the oil so they just did the change and told me I was out of break-in despite the early mileage), but 25 miles late shouldn't be an issue since most of the debris was probably created in the first 100 to 200 miles.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 10:01:42 PM by flar »
Current bikes: 2013 Brammo Empulse R, 2005 BMW R1200RT
Prior bikes: 1988 Honda Hawk GT, 1997 BMW F650

7racer

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 09:51:52 PM »
i have the manual as a PDF if you need it...

Shinysideup

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2013, 11:32:54 PM »
Hopefully the finalized manual will have the oil drain bolt torque omission, er, plugged. Adam from Brammo has specified 25 Nm for the oil drain bolt. 15 Nm for the fill plug, and 11 Nm for the oil check bolt.

Good practice: Before you remove the drain plug, look carefully for any weepage which may indicate a bad seal.

I was amazed at the amount of debris on the magnetic bolt at the 600 mile change. Lots of steel bits that I was surely glad the magnet caught.

I found the oil fill plug difficult to pour into and so used the breather hose on the left side of the bike after removing its vented plug by releasing the hose clamp. Way EZ.

The oil check hole is too small to really look into (a sight glass would have been nice). I just poured the bulk of the quart in and then poured slowly until oil started running out the check hole.

*** Note that this level is supposed to be checked while the bike is on the SIDE stand.

As to oil, I'd definitely use a full synthetic from a motorcycle shop, and an oil that's approved for a wet clutch. Automotive oils have a different additive package, IIRC. I ended up with a Honda mc engine oil that I'm sure will work just fine, as the shifting improved after the change.

PS: Here's the entries I used for my garage-wall spreadsheet (use at your own risk):

Bolt Location                       Wrench Size                 Torque
Chain Tensioners                       13 mm x2                        21.4 Nm
Frame savers front (10 mm)        8 mm hex                        36 Nm
Frame savers rear (8 mm)            6 mm hex                        21 Nm
Oil Check Bolt                        5 mm hex                        11 Nm
Oil Drain Plug                                17 mm                        25 Nm
Oil Fill Fill Plug                           14 mm                            15 Nm
Oil vent hose clamp                8 mm                                just snug
Rear Axle                                27 mm                        55 Nm
Seat release                                 5 mm hex                          6.7 Nm

Note: Above edited 2/28 with corrected values.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 10:31:55 PM by Shinysideup »

FreepZ

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2013, 03:45:48 AM »
@7racer: I now have the PDF too. I would like to put it up on the wiki, but I would need to get permission from Brammo first.

@flar: My mechanic told me the same thing. A few extra miles isn't going to be a problem. I just didn't want to have to ride all the way to Orlando if I didn't need to.

@Shinysideup: Thanks for all the advice.

I have to say, I'm curious about how the decisions were made about that transmission. Why a seep hole rather than a window? How did the fill hole end up in such an inaccessible place?
Richard #935 #595 #44

FreepZ

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 09:31:51 AM »
I found the oil fill plug difficult to pour into and so used the breather hose on the left side of the bike after removing its vented plug by releasing the hose clamp. Way EZ.

I was a little bit confused about what you were talking about with the breather hose, until I looked and saw:


It's even asking to have oil poured in there!

I wonder why the manual wants us to use the oil fill hole when it is more of a hassle to access than that nifty side hose. Will the hose be damaged by loosening and tightening the hose clamp every 3k miles?
Richard #935 #595 #44

implovator

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 10:01:12 AM »
I think this thread is screaming for some official service videos from Brammo. Suspension setup, oil change, chain tensioning, etc. But then again...there might be a conflict of interest since this a service that dealers might offer. Whatdya think, Brammo?

Richard230

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Re: Oil Change
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 10:40:59 AM »
I have a few random comments about the gearbox oil change:

If it was me, I would change the oil at around 100 miles and then again at 600 miles.  By 100 miles most of the wear inside the transmission should have already occurred and you might as well get that break-in debris out of the works as soon as possible.

That comment about finding a lot of ferrous debris on the drain plug magnet is worrisome.  I have been changing engine sump and gearbox oils for many years and it has been at least 20 years since I have seen any noticeable metal debris stuck to a drain plug - even at the first oil change. Even years ago (when machining and gear metals were not as good as they are now), I would only notice some metal whiskers sticking up from the magnet.

It does look like the Amsoil product linked above by Protomech meets Brammo's specifications.  Amsoil has a very good reputation and would seem to be an excellent choice as a transmission lubricant.  However, if Amsoil is not available, I think I would also consider any name-brand motorcycle transmission product that is designed for use in a transmission with a wet clutch, as found in two stroke engine.  Most engine oils contain additional additives that are not needed to lubricate a transmission that does not have to deal with a lot of heat, acids and other contaminates, which are the result of internal combustion.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 10:52:24 AM by Richard230 »
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.