Author Topic: My first long trip on the R  (Read 4360 times)

Virtually Yours

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2013, 08:30:43 AM »
Day 3
We decided to make the best out of the weekend and relocated to our next destination.  Originally we were supposed to ride here from the in-law's...
Dunedin, FL is nice.  The charging station is at the Best Western.  So while the wife was checking us in I went and found the charging stations. After I parked I was walking around the stations looking at the cars that are parked there. I was checking into Plugshare about to post my pic and write my review when I had a situation with an employee of the hotel that parked her ICE vehicle in the charging station. She must have just got off of work, obviously had a bad day and I was the one she decided to take it out on. She confronted me in an aggresive manner asking me why I was looking at her car. I tried to inform her of FL state law that says
 
(3)(a) It is unlawful for a person to stop, stand, or park a vehicle that is not capable of using an electrical recharging station within any parking space specifically designated for charging an electric vehicle.
(b) If a law enforcement officer finds a motor vehicle in violation of this subsection, the officer or specialist shall charge the operator or other person in charge of the vehicle in violation with a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as provided in s. 316.008(4) or s. 318.18.

Well she must have been a transplant from New York.  Enough said... What a bitch.
So of course when we checked out I saw her working the front desk. So I walked in and greeted her with a very cheerful "Good morning Sunshine" then proceeded to let her have it. So when the manager got involved he told me some B.S. about having an agreement with city about letting ICE vehicles park there due to limited parking.  Well we'll see about that.

Still this is a good place to watch the Saint's @ Bucs (I'm from New Orleans and a proud member of Da Who Dat Nation). Besides the other thing that attracted me to stay here was that restaurant behind the hotel http://www.bonappetitrestaurant.com/ is a New Orleans theme restaurant and I figured a good place to get an authentic bowl of Gumbo and watch the game.  I was right the Gumbo was GREAT! Overall I liked the hotel.  It was very nice.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 10:44:17 AM by Virtually Yours »
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Virtually Yours

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2013, 08:53:34 AM »
So after the great come from behind win we took a short walk to the little downtown area and got me two scoops of Pralines and Cream to celebrate.  The downtown is very charming, clean and safe. What makes it really attractive is that it's not commercialized.  It all seemed to be "mom and pop" locally owned businesses. I highly recommend that if you are ever on the west coast of FL to stay there.

Day 4
Time to make our way home without my R.  :'(
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 09:41:02 AM by Virtually Yours »
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flar

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2013, 03:20:03 AM »
(3)(a) It is unlawful for a person to stop, stand, or park a vehicle that is not capable of using an electrical recharging station within any parking space specifically designated for charging an electric vehicle.
(b) If a law enforcement officer finds a motor vehicle in violation of this subsection, the officer or specialist shall charge the operator or other person in charge of the vehicle in violation with a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as provided in s. 316.008(4) or s. 318.18.

In looking at the pictures, I don't see any signs restricting the parking spaces at that site.  Is simply having a charging station next to the space enough to designate it "for charging an electric vehicle" or must it be posted with a sign and possibly paint?
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Virtually Yours

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2013, 07:48:43 AM »
That's a good question and part of the problem. I feel once you put a charger in a parking space then it becomes a charging station. If its not a charging station then why is the charger there? Without signage and proper painted markings then it's really just a half-ass effort in providing a service that as you know from experience can't be used. EV people need to do more! Rather it be writing a letter to the powers that be or finding the right person to talk to and make some calls but it's not going to change itself... The FL law is a good start, but proper signage and markings that are uniformed like handicapped parking is the next step. Finally enforcing the law and writing tickets will ultimately be what solves the problem.
The other thing that's concerning is the lack of regulated pricing for charging.  There needs to be set amounts if there is a cost to charge similar to the gas gauging laws that are in place. $.049/kwh seems to be the one that comes up the most around here and that was changed from $2.49/kwh. Both are way to high!  Another thing that gets under my skin is the pay to park/pay to charge charging stations. It should be either pay to park or pay to charge but not both. I'm sure I'm like everyone else and find free places to charge and/or charge at home whenever possible.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 08:25:49 AM by Virtually Yours »
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flar

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2013, 05:05:02 PM »
I don't think you'll get any traction on any law that requires businesses to provide EV charging.  It is a courtesy.  As such, I think you'll find the regulations to be loose on purpose.

If a business must choose between not having EV charging and giving up some precious parking spots to be dedicated to EV charging then you'll find fewer chargers in the wild.  If you don't give businesses the flexibility to provide the chargers on an "if you can get to them" basis then the alternative is that those chargers won't exist at all.  You can't charge from a station that was regulated away by overly strict requirements.  Also, the business owner paid to put that station in.  They should have the right to decide how much they want to charge to recoup that cost.  The alternative is to find another station (and currently there aren't enough to provide much competition) or to not find a charger because the business owner decided that they didn't want to spend the money to provide them for what they could charge to recoup their losses.

I once made it home due to the presence of a Walgreens that provided a charger at $2/hour.  If they had been forced to reduce that rate, that charger would not have been there and I might have been stranded.  It may be true that they might attract more business with a lower rate, or that EV ownership might be more attractive to more people if their stations were cheaper, but they obviously only felt comfortable spending money to put in those chargers if they could charge that rate.  And, for the fact that I could charge that night and make it home, I am grateful.  And for my future convenience I do hope that they make the leap of faith that lower rates will attract more business.

If you want more charging stations, then you need to be thankful for the businesses that are currently embracing the new direction, and be thankful on their terms.  That doesn't mean you should patronize the expensive chargers, but scowling at them and throwing legislation at them will reduce adoption rates of what is not considered a required service.  Eventually, as the EV market grows - on the heels of better EV choices in the marketplace and businesses who report having felt the warm glow of having provided the stations - there will be more competition and the impression that providing the stations with better availability and lower prices attracts (thankful) customers.

In the meantime, every business you make feel antagonized for providing the new services is an obstacle to finding more stations...
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Virtually Yours

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2013, 07:56:40 AM »
I don't think you'll get any traction on any law that requires businesses to provide EV charging.  It is a courtesy.  As such, I think you'll find the regulations to be loose on purpose.
I'm not suggesting there be a law that requires businesses to have EV charging. I never wrote that. The businesses that do decide to offer EV charging are doing so to encourage people with EVs to come to their location and do business with them. What I am suggesting is that knowing what the current law is in the state of FL that if a business offers an EV charging station that they mark the spaces properly so they can be used for what they are intended.
I once made it home due to the presence of a Walgreens that provided a charger at $2/hour.  If they had been forced to reduce that rate, that charger would not have been there and I might have been stranded.
As far as regulating the charging rates; if your happy paying random prices for a charge or paying outrageous prices because you're at their mercy then fine, but do the math. If you charge your Leaf 24 kwh @ $2.49/kwh it will cost you $59.76 and assume you actually get 100 miles to the charge (and we know you won't), your operating cost of the vehicle is $.5976 per mile. My 1999 Lexus SC400 gets <16.5 mpg @ $3.499 per gallon yielding an operating cost of $.212 per mile.  Charging the Leaf at home I'm paying $.112 per khw x 24 kwh only cost me $2.688 and operating cost per mile is $.0268. My point is a reasonable mark up say 100% on the current rate the power company charges would bring the cost of charging my car/bike to a reasonable $.23/kwh.
If you want more charging stations, then you need to be thankful for the businesses that are currently embracing the new direction, and be thankful on their terms.  That doesn't mean you should patronize the expensive chargers, but scowling at them and throwing legislation at them will reduce adoption rates of what is not considered a required service.  Eventually, as the EV market grows - on the heels of better EV choices in the marketplace and businesses who report having felt the warm glow of having provided the stations - there will be more competition and the impression that providing the stations with better availability and lower prices attracts (thankful) customers.

In the meantime, every business you make feel antagonized for providing the new services is an obstacle to finding more stations...

So having said that, why in the world should I be thankful? I'm not being an antagonist, but what I am doing is trying to educate people when I come in contact with them. The vast majority of people are receptive but once in a while I'll run into a person like the employee of the Best Western. I don't usually say anything but in this case I made a stink because 1. She was such a bitch 2. I was a paying guest of the hotel 3. I don't put up with any body's bullshit. I'm not somebody's whipping boy or doormat.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 07:24:28 PM by Virtually Yours »
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protomech

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2013, 11:34:01 AM »
In fairness, the charging cost should be a little lower.

Blink typically charges $2/hour for guests, $1.50/hour for standard members, $1/hour for premium members.

Not sure how that'll shake out as Ecotality goes bankrupt.

I don't know about Chargepoint costs.

For ~55 mph driving:
A 2013 Empulse R will charge at ~20 miles/hour
A 2011 LEAF will charge at ~13 miles/hour
A 2013 LEAF will charge at ~26 miles/hour

So this means a 2011 LEAF costs $0.15/mile at $2/hour, $0.08/mile at $1/hour. Halve those costs for a 2013 LEAF.
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skuzzle

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2013, 01:36:46 PM »
Blink typically charges $2/hour for guests, $1.50/hour for standard members, $1/hour for premium members.

Blink has changed their rates.  There are only two rates now, $2 for guests and $1 for members.  This is no longer a premium plan that has a monthly or yearly fee.  I would still rather have a per kw price, or a combination of kw + plugged in to discourage sitting on the space after charging is complete.

flar

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2013, 08:00:55 PM »
I don't think you'll get any traction on any law that requires businesses to provide EV charging.  It is a courtesy.  As such, I think you'll find the regulations to be loose on purpose.
I'm not suggesting there be a law that requires businesses to have EV charging. I never wrote that. The businesses that do decide to offer EV charging are doing so to encourage people with EVs to come to their location and do business with them. What I am suggesting is that knowing what the current law is in the state of FL that if a business offers an EV charging station that they mark the spaces properly so they can be used for what they are intended for.

I didn't see any regulations that required the spaces to be marked.  The sections you quoted said only that there would be fines for improperly parking there if they are designated.  I actually looked at the FL vehicle codes and followed the pointers and never saw any requirement that the spaces must be designated if there is a charger nearby.

And I wasn't intending to imply that you had asked for legislation, I was trying to point out that without such legislation, some of the things you were indicating should be done cannot be enforced or expected.  The "half assed efforts" as you pointed out are all that I think we can "expect" at this time, but we can and should let them know how we perceive those efforts and in providing that feedback "honey works better than vinegar".

In particular, you did say "once you put a charger in a parking space ..." and I am trying to point out that the precondition of that statement is "once a business that isn't really required to provide EV charging *decides* to put in a charger" and, when you acknowledge that their decision is an important part of this equation and that they can decide not to provide a charger in the first place, any statement that ends in "then you must do it this way" provides yet another obstacle that balances the equation in favor of the businesses choosing to not put the chargers in at all.  And that results in EV owners finding fewer places to charge should they ever need it in an emergency, or to facilitate a daily sequence of trips that wouldn't otherwise be possible without on-the-go charging in a particular location.

Quote
I once made it home due to the presence of a Walgreens that provided a charger at $2/hour.  If they had been forced to reduce that rate, that charger would not have been there and I might have been stranded.
As far as regulating the charging rates; if your happy paying random prices for a charge or paying outrageous prices because you're at their mercy then fine, but do the math.

I have done the math quite extensively in other forums (most notably a week long discussion with the EV group at work over the rates that were being proposed for our chargers at work and how fair they were to various EVs from Teslas to electric bicycles).

I am not happy to pay $2/hour to charge an EV due to the costs.  But, I am happy to find a charger in the wild where I might not expect to find one because a business was given the choice to charge $2/hour and that flipped the decision on whether or not they would provide a charger at all in the first place.  That was my point.

I would love to see lower costs and switching more to $/kwh and encourage businesses to just provide it for free as a convenience given the marginal difference to their operating costs, but I don't expect that at this point in the game.  It will come when EVs get more popular and competition for attracting their business takes off, but I don't see it happening now unless legislation gets involved (and, CA may be heading there with some recent legislation they are considering which is good news).

Quote
If you want more charging stations, then you need to be thankful for the businesses that are currently embracing the new direction, and be thankful on their terms.  That doesn't mean you should patronize the expensive chargers, but scowling at them and throwing legislation at them will reduce adoption rates of what is not considered a required service.  Eventually, as the EV market grows - on the heels of better EV choices in the marketplace and businesses who report having felt the warm glow of having provided the stations - there will be more competition and the impression that providing the stations with better availability and lower prices attracts (thankful) customers.

In the meantime, every business you make feel antagonized for providing the new services is an obstacle to finding more stations...

So having said that, why in the world should I be thankful? I'm not being an antagonist, but what I am doing is trying to educate people when I come in contact with them.

You should not be thankful for bad pricing, perhaps "thankful" was a poor choice of words there for me.  You might want to be gracious when you approach them about whether the service they provided is attracting your business or not.  They may decide to change their pricing policies and, again, "honey works better than vinegar" in a situation like that.

If you ever find yourself in a sparse part of town and low on charge, then in that case you might be "thankful" that Walgreens decided to put in chargers at all in the first place - even if they charge $2/hour for the privilege of the emergency save...

Quote
The vast majority of people are receptive but once in a while I'll run into a person like the employee of the Best Western. I don't usually say anything but in this case I made a stink because 1. She was such a bitch 2. I was a paying guest of the hotel 3. I don't put up with any body's bullshit. I'm not somebody's whipping boy or doormat.

I guess I wasn't there so I can't speak to the way you were treated. It sounds like they started it, and everyone deserves respect, so I salute you standing up for yourself.  But, in the long run, anything you pointed out in the context of such an interaction likely got ignored because of that context, regardless of who was right.  I've had to smile my way through a number of affronts because I wanted to achieve a goal, and it isn't pretty and it isn't easy and I don't always do it.  But, when I walk away after giving someone or a business a piece of my mind, I feel better, but I realize that I missed an opportunity to make a difference.  :)  :(
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Shinysideup

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2013, 10:42:33 PM »
A wise teacher of mine once said:

We all want to be right.
And we make sure we end up that way: right, right, dead right!

Or as a girlfriend once asked me:
"Do you want to be right or happy?"

Your last paragraph is a gem, Jim!

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Re: My first long trip on the R
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2013, 07:54:41 AM »
As a friend once told me when I corrected him about some minor point, "you may be right, but you're still an asshole." My wife co-opted that, and now she just tells me the "you may be right"part and lets me fill in the rest, inside my head.
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